Hi ShowMeTheLight...............wearisome isn't it! You say it isn't........they say it is! As far as I can see only a court could decide, if Sharklys ever decide to take it that far. If it were me I'd reply to Barclaycard making a formal complaint, stating that you are dis-satisfied with their response to your CCA request, you question the validity and legality of the documents supplied so far and that you are now waiting for their response to your SAR request. In the Meantime your SAR request may provde you with information that will strengthen your position........... ......it's a waiting game............not much fun for you. I hope that you will find the resolve to stand up to them. kindest regards sythe:rolleyes:

send them exactly the sam letter as you send to Metropolitan. ;)sythe

Hi again ardasaliah.........I've had a look at the document and it does look enforceable to me, although i'm no expert. However the points I'd be disputing if it were me, are the amounts of PPI + interest. Has your wife received a default notice yet? sythe

Hi ardasaliah..........welcome to CAG. I'll take a look at the document asap and get back to you. kindest regards sythe:)

Hi holley In the first instance I'd write to "Clear Debt" and inform them that you have no knowledge of the account they have written to you about, complain about the letter and tell them you are going to report them to the Information Commissioner. Then report the matter to the Information Commissioner www.ico.gov.uk Once you've done that, try your best to forget about the whole thing. kind regards sythe;)

Here is a copy of the letter I spoke about: Account In Dispute Ref No. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Client Ref. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Dear Sir/Madam I am writing in response to your letter to me, dated xxxxxxxxxxxxxx. I sent a recorded delivery CCA request, dated xxxxxxxxxxxx. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx haveso far failed to comply with my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account. The documents that are required are a true copy of the original signed executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by the original creditor and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, that document should also be enclosed. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account. I received a letter on xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, that letter does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in that document. Since that document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states: 127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner). This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced. I now require written clarification as to whether or not you can supply the documents referred to above. Should you ignore this request you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40. I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. With reference to all the above the account remains in default and as you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states: If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1) (a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement. Furthermore 1.1 The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) has a duty under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to ensure that licences are only given to and retained by those who are fit to hold them. The Act provides that the OFT take into account any circumstances which appear to be relevant and in particular any evidence that an applicant, licensee, or their employees, agents or business associates, past or present, have: • failed to comply with the requirements of credit or other consumer legislation • engaged in business practices appearing to us to be deceitful, oppressive or otherwise unfair or improper (whether unlawful or not). 2 UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICES Communication 2.1 It is unfair to communicate, in whatever form, with consumers in an unclear, inaccurate or misleading manner. 2.2 Examples of unfair practices are as follows: b. leaving out or presenting information in such a way that it creates a false or misleading impression or exploits debtors' lack of knowledge False representation of authority and/or legal position 2.3 Those contacting debtors must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their authority and/or the correct legal position. 2.4 Examples of unfair practices are as follows: b. falsely implying or stating that action can or will be taken when it legally cannot Deceptive and/or unfair methods Psychological harassment 2.5 Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive. c. using more than one debt collection business at the same time resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different parties d. not ensuring that an adequate history of the debt is passed on as appropriate resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different parties e. not informing the debtor when their case has been passed on to a different debt collector h. ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment 2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair. 2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows: (i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued' k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both unlawful and vexatious. N. B. You should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies. * You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment. * You may not add further interest or any charges to the account. * You may not pass the account to a third party. * You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency. * You may not issue a default notice related to the account. With reference to the above I wish to make a formal complaint about your letter and require the following : An explanation of why you sent the letter, dated xxxxxxxxxxxxxx. The contact details of the department of xxxxx that instructed you to write to me. You have 8 weeks to respond to this complaint. In the event that you do not respond satisfactorily I will contact the Financial Ombudsman Service. I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter. I look forward to hearing from you in writing. Yours faithfully

Hi again "me against them"............just a thought, do you have Payment Protection Insuranse covering the Flexiloan account........if so, can you make a claim........if not that amount should not be included. sythe:cool:

Hi "me against them"............I agree with cerberusalert & others, complain. Complain to the Information Commissioner, to HSBC and Metropolitan. Metropolitan or any DCA should not be contacting you whilst the accounts are in dispute..........I can post up a letter I sent recently about a similar problem if you like. Your letter to HSBC may take a bit longer.........you said in your post on 9-July that you have various issues to dispute about both accounts. Start a rough draft detailing that, also complain about all HSBC's actions. They then have 8 weeks to respond. If you're not satisfied with their response you can pass the matter to the FOS. I'm having quite a bit of success doing that about RBS at the moment. ..............kind regards sythe:cool:

Hi all..........can anyone advise please. I am trying to sort out PPI and interest added to a defaulted RBS loan. My case is currently being dealt with by the FOS. I've sent 3 letters, since April 2008, to The Royal Bank of Scotland asking for the following : a) Statement showing the loan funds paid in to that account. b) Statement showing full details of sum withdrawn. c) Copy of the original loan agreement referred to in The Royal Bank of Scotland Default Notice letter to me dated, xxxxxx showing the outstanding balance as xxxxx d) Copy of the Insurance policy relating to that loan agreement I have not received any acknowledgement from RBS of receipt of any of my letters. However I received an envelope recently, there is no clear indication of who sent it, it contained what looks like some kind of account print out as follows : CONSUMER FINANCE LOAN DETAILS 1 11AUG 18.05 xxxxxxx HEAD OFFICE LOANS TEAM 40 SERVICING BRANCH xxxxxxxxxxxxxx SERVICING ACCOUNT xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx *** BAD DEBT - 13JAN04 OPENING DATE 10DEC02 ORIGINAL TOT AMT PAYABLE 10,976.40 LOAN EXPIRES NOV07 - PRINCIPAL 6,400.00 PERIOD OF LOAN (MONTHS) 60 - TOT CHARGE FOR CREDIT 2,949.40 INT RATE (FLAT) 7.35 - INSURANCE PREMIUM 1,567.00 REPAYMENT AMOUNT 182.94 AMOUNT PAID TO DATE 3,418.47 NEXT PAYMENT 28AUG2009 TOT AMT OUTSTANDING 7,557.93- MIRAS TAX RELIEF NO ARREARS AMOUNT 0.00 CURRENT PREVIOUS NET AMT OUTSTANDING 4,969.65 5,814.90 REBATE ALLOWABLE 2,588.28 2,588.28 - INTEREST REBATE 1,668.10 1,668.10 - INSURANCE PREMIUM REBATE 886.25 886.25 - TAX REBATE 0.00 0.00 SETTLEMENT DATE 11JUN07 11JUN07 I see that the figure shown as CURRENT NET AMT OUTSTANDING 4,969.65 is TOTAL AMT OUTSTANDING 7,557.93 minus the REBATE ALLOWABLE 2,588.25 but surely the REBATE ALLOWABLE FIGURE is lower than it should be. I took out the loan in Deceber 2002 and made payments according the agreement until September of 2003. I told RBS that I could not afford to keep up the payments at that time. However RBS continued to take a further two payments from my bank account putting my account into overdraft, for which I was the charged. The loan was defaulted on 12 February of 2004, at that time the amount outstanding was calculated as 8,598.18 and the rebate allowable was calculated at 2,703.32 giving a net amount outstanding of 5,894.86. As I had made 12 payments to the loan the amount of REBATE ALLOWABLE should have been calculated from that point. Also the loan refinanced an earlier loan and it is not clear whether PPI an interest was also added to that amount. As I have found RBS to be extremely reluctant to supply information about all of this and I am not knowledgable enough about accountancy I am having real difficulty calculating what the NET AMOUNT OUTSTANDING should actually be. Can anyone help.

Hi.............I haven't sent the SAR letter you advised as yet but I did send the following letter recorded delivery : The Royal Bank of Scotland xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date : 06-08-09 Branch No. : xxxxxx Account No. xxxxxxxxxxxx Account in Dispute Dear Sir/Madam With reference to the above account, please find enclosed a copy of my email to The Financial Ombudsman Service. Also a copy of my letter to you, dated 27-July-2009. EMAIL TO FOS : Upon further reflection on the whole matter of my complaint, I would like to make the following point. With reference to the contining failure of The Royal Bank of Scotland to comply with my request for documents as described in my email to you dated xxxxxxxxxxx Please note I wrote again to RBS, copy letter attached. I have so far received no reply. The account is now in default as stated in section 78(6) If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1) (a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement. Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law. In the event that The Royal Bank of Scotland do supply the documents requested I will then be able to address the matter of interset & PPI added to the account at the time of the Default Notice was issued. I will now write to The Royal Bank of Scotland,Credit Management Services, Kendal Court, Ironmasters, Way, Telford,TF3 4DT. In that letter, which I will send 1st class recored delivery, I will enclose a copy of this email along with the letter attached to it. I hope that I have made my position clear and I look forward to hearing from you in due course. I received an envelope this morning, there is no clear indication of who sent it, it contained what looks like some kind of account print out as follows : CONSUMER FINANCE LOAN DETAILS 1 11AUG 18.05 SERVICING BRANCH xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx SERVICING ACCOUNT xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx***BAD DEBT - 13JAN04 OPENING DATE 10DEC02 ORIGINAL TOT AMT PAYABLE 10,976.40 LOAN EXPIRES NOV07 - PRINCIPAL 6,400.00 PERIOD OF LOAN (MONTHS) 60 - TOTAL CHARGE FOR CREDIT 2,949.40 INT RATE (FLAT) 7.35 - INSURANCE PREMIUM 1,567.00 REPAYMENT AMOUNT 182.94 AMOUNT PAID TO DATE 3,418.47 NEXT PAYMENT 28AUG2009 TOT AMT OUTSTANDING 7,557.93- MIRAS TAX RELIEF NO ARREARS AMOUNT 0.00 CURRENT NET AMT OUTSTANDING 4,969.65 REBATE ALLOWABLE 2, 588.28 - INTEREST REBATE 1,668.10 - INSURANCE PREMIUM REBATE 886.25 - TAX REBATE 0.00 PREVIOUS NET AMT OUTSTANDING 5,814.90 REBATE ALLOWABLE 2, 588.28 - INTEREST REBATE 1,668.10 - INSURANCE PREMIUM REBATE 886.25 - TAX REBATE 0.00 SETTLEMENT DATE 11JUN07 Can you explain what all that means, I think it is the first step along the way to getting the PPI and interest issue sorted out. I think I should wait to see what happens next, seems to me the ball is in their court............ kind regards krj8

Hi.............I received an envelope this morning, there is no clear indication of who sent it, it contained what looks like some kind of account print out as follows : CONSUMER FINANCE LOAN DETAILS 1 11AUG 18.05 SERVICING BRANCH xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx SERVICING ACCOUNT xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx***BAD DEBT - 13JAN04 OPENING DATE 10DEC02 ORIGINAL TOT AMT PAYABLE 10,976.40 LOAN EXPIRES NOV07 - PRINCIPAL 6,400.00 PERIOD OF LOAN (MONTHS) 60 - TOTAL CHARGE FOR CREDIT 2,949.40 INT RATE (FLAT) 7.35 - INSURANCE PREMIUM 1,567.00 REPAYMENT AMOUNT 182.94 AMOUNT PAID TO DATE 3,418.47 NEXT PAYMENT 28AUG2009 TOT AMT OUTSTANDING 7,557.93- MIRAS TAX RELIEF NO ARREARS AMOUNT 0.00 CURRENT PREVIOUS NET AMT OUTSTANDING 4,969.65 5,814.90 REBATE ALLOWABLE 2, 588.28 2, 588.28 - INTEREST REBATE 1,668.10 1,668.10 - INSURANCE PREMIUM REBATE 886.25 886.25 - TAX REBATE 0.00 0.00 SETTLEMENT DATE 11JUN07 11JUN07 Can aynone explain what all that means and what I should do next?

Hi cerberusalert............i received a letter from Moorcroft this morning prsuing payment. So I've replied saying "account in dispute" etc..........also wrote directly to Barclaycard to complain. No CCA no enforceable agreement..................I wonder if moorcroft have bought the debt? krj8

Hi..........I've read throught Barclay's letter.........as far as I can see it confirms that they cannot supply a copy of the original signed credit agreement. A court would be the only place that it could be decided whether Barclay's have complied or not........and I doubt if they would take that action as it would probably result in them being legally unable to collect this debt......IMO. Stick to your guns............I don't think you need to do anything at all until they start trying to purue the debt. Then you can complain about that and repeat your CCA request. In my case Barclay's do seem to have rolled over, although they won't say that outright............ kind regards krj8

more news: The FOS have now forwarded my e-mail to their Customer Contact Division who will arrange for a new complaint to be set up for me against Wescot Credit Services. ..........can't wait will keep you posted. krj8:D

progress report............... The FOS have backed down, the case will now be passed to an ombudsman..........so it will probably take another 6-8 months for that final desicion to be issued. I sent the FOS the following email this morning : Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Thank you again for your very prompt reply. There is are a few points in your reply that I wish to correct. You state that I did not supply The Royal Bank of Scotland with a financial statement, that is a lie. I wrote to RBS on the 31-January 2008, in that letter I gave a full details of my cirumstances and full details of my financial position, including an offer to pay. RBS refused that offer. However as it transpired my complaint about their excessive and improper charges remained unresolved and they then change their mind and decided to purse me for payment, in clear breach of the terms of their credit licence On the point concerning RBS decision to pass the account to a Debt Collection Agency. The Consumer credit Act is quite clear about that : Consumer Credit Act Debt collection guidance 2 UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICES Communication Deceptive and/or unfair methods 2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows: k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt. furthermore 1.1 The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) has a duty under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to ensure that licences are only given to and retained by those who are fit to hold them. The Act provides that the OFT take into account any circumstances which appear to be relevant and in particular any evidence that an applicant, licensee, or their employees, agents or business associates, past or present, have: • failed to comply with the requirements of credit or other consumer legislation. Since it is clear that in my case The Royal Bank of Scotland, have failed to comply as stated above I intend to purue that point and will in due course be presenting my argument to The Office of Fair Trading and any other regulatory authorities as I see fit . I have also been in contact with several UK newspapers. who have expressed an interest in this matter. In addition, when I draft my letter of compliant to RBS, I will also be stating the following : The documents that are required are a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by the original creditor and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also required to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account. 127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner). This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced. With reference to all the above the account remains in default and as you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states: If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1) (a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement. I look forwrad to reading the ombudsman's final decision concerning this matter. It is to be hoped that during the time that it takes for that decision to be promulgated RBS will act within the terms prescribed by their credit licence. Although it seems that they are unaware of Denis Healey's first law of holes "when you're in one stop digging". yours sincerely So now I'm waiting for Wescot/FOS to supply the contact details so that I can complain to RBS. Also I will now draft a letter to the OFT concerning RBS conduct in breaching the terms of their credit licence.......I'll be forwarding that letter to several UK newspapers..........anyone got any suggestions about who else I could contact. kind regards krj8