Thank you all for your thoughts, they are very much appreciated! I am not seeking to "stick it to the man" as it were, I owe what I owe, the honey trap worked on me boo hoo, my monthly dues are a harsh reminder of my stupidity, such is life, it does go on, life that is (fingers crossed). I was merely toying with the idea of some kind of capping mechanism that suited me, if left unchecked Credit Card "Schysters" basically own you and there's no light at the end of the tunnel. I am sick and tired of paying these organisations, Mr Branson (Virgin) is all smiles and the "perfect" family man to his own particular brood while I have to be embarrased with my own childrens needs..............was one of those heart pumping moments behind the wheel at traffic lights, my mind wandered. Thanks again for your suggestions, I shall probably try and get it capped via Virgin themselves rather than my rash Court romance.

Hi Monty, So, my initial reading of your post is that it is indeed a carrrrrrrrrrrrrazy idea, ok no sweat. I actually don't care about the frills and spills of CCJ's and 6 years on being in the credit wilderness, so disalusioned with it all I could really care less about the fall out. Still, my point was that I would liquidate my owed £4k into some kind of mannagable FIXED sum and not this ever expanding national debt figure, that is/was the whole point of the exercise. Is there any other way to agree a fixed sum with the creditor or do they wish to play the role of Shylock ad nauseum? Thanks for the reply, its appreciated!

I had a kind of brainwave today! About Credit Card debt of which I have in spades. Currently I owe Virgin Credit approximately £4k and I have fallen behind in payments which has made them "irritable", poor them. Anyhoo I currently pay £130/month towards, well, nothing really, it's just thrown away in real terms it doesn't even touch the £4k it just minimises the interest on the £4k but not the core £4k itself. What a complete waste of time its proving to be, so, now the brainwave!!! Think about it in simple terms. If I default on payments and let them take me to court I will naturally lose the case however, a judge shall find me in fault to the sum of £4k ONLY. He shall find me in default of £4k as a FIXED sum and therefore order me to pay that sum (and court costs of course) but then legally I shall only be liable for that sum and not years of interest on top of that, is this fantasy on my part or is this an actual way forward? I am sick and tired, probably like most on here, of paying interest on a sum of money that will never ever ever be paid off. Thoughts please PS I am a Scot living in Scotland so legal system may differ from the rest of the UK.

Hi guys an’ dolls! Last year I took out a loan with Clydesdale Bank PLC, usual tale of a life circling the drain, no way out of debt, get a loan and borrow your way out! Well as you have all figured out that never works and indeed hasn’t in my case at any rate. I inquired today whether or not I was paying insurance on the loan to which the answer was yes I was. My eyes lit up, “hello” me thinks, chance of getting something back to reduce my burden. I was slapped down with a “No, the payments you have made to date cover you (insurance wise) up until today. If you cancel the insurance we would adjust your future payments reducing them accordingly.” Bah humbug thinks me, sits down and sulks. I thought that when you took out a loan for £X they calculated the insurance £Y and added them together as £Z with interest being charged on the total, basically you are “borrowing” the money to pay the insurance sort of thing. Now if I am cancelling the insurance that would mean that all payments and interest charges attached to £Y are null and void. My total debt for this loan is based on £Y addition over the course of the entire loan is it not? Am I therefore not entitled to some interest reduction due to losing the £Y millstone? Quick example of what I mean, ignore figures as they are for illustration purposes only so you kind of catch my drift as it were. Borrow £100 Insurance £10 Interest 20% Therefore the loan is for £110 = 110x20% = £132 But Loan without insurance £100 = 100x20% = £120 a difference of £2 (£132-£120 =£12 less the initial £10 quoted for the insurance) over the length of the loan! Any idea folks? I haven’t as yet cancelled the built in insurance, I am aware of TV adverts hawking their wares trying to get you to call them so they can do the “injury lawyers for you” routine but I shall trust this communities judgment. I hope all the above made sense. Baba 484

A response!!! Copy below the banks letter of response............. 1 July 2009 Dear Mr Baba 484, I refer to your letter dated 19 June 2009 First of all accept my apologies that you found it necessary to raise a complaint with the Bank. I have completed my investigations into your concerns and would like to present my findings. My understanding of the issue you have raised is as follows: ~ Charges that have been levied to the account I have today spoken with Advice Quality Unit who have confirmed that they have written to you advising of the procedure which is in place for any charge queries. After checking your account I can confirm that our Current Account Management Unit have refunded £105 of charges after your recent conversation with them. This was due to 2 of the payments going internally and the other payment being for a small amount. At this time we are not in a position that we can refund any more charges as they have been applied within the terms and conditions of the account however, Advice Quality Unit will be in touch with the final decision. I have enclosed for your information a copy of our Internal Complaint Handling Procedures. These procedures confirm how to pursue your complaint if you remain unhappy with this response and how to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service if we cannot resolve the matter. If we do not receive a response from you within eight weeks of the date of this letter, your complaint will be considered closed. I trust this clarifies the matter and thank you for taking the time and trouble in bringing this to my attention. Yours sincerely XXXX XXXX (baba484 note, ß those aren’t kisses) Copy below my response to the response................ XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX 15/07/09 XXXX, Branch Supervisor, Clydesdale Bank PLC 30 The Foregate Kilmarnock Ayrshire KA1 1JH Ref: internal bank charges raised against account XXXX Dear Mrs/Miss XXXXX, Many thanks for your reply to my letter dated 19 June 2009 regarding internal bank charges to the above referenced account. I note you make reference to my contact with the Current Account Management Unit however feel I must point out that that contact was at their “urgent” insistence rather than my own dull witted initiative and actually not related to any charges whatsoever but rather the state of my account at that time. During the course of my conversation however, internal charges were discussed and I also referred to my recent correspondence to you, and without any fuss whatsoever I was given the £105 refund you reference in your correspondence. Furthermore you have acknowledged in your correspondence that these reimbursements were “due to 2 of the payments going internally and the other payment being for a small amount.” I am naturally pleased that you have acknowledged that these internal payments should not be subject to punitive sanctions, which was, indeed, the main thrust of my initial request for review. My initial letter was perhaps unclear, for which I apologies, to whit I was inquiring about one specific type of payment, viz a viz branch internal specifically from account XXXXXXXX to account XXXXXXXX. As a result of your reply to my initial letter and your clear and unambiguous explanation of why I was reimbursed by your Current Account Management Unit I would request that you carry out a most urgent review of account XXXXXXXX and continue the course of corrective action that you have initiated. I assure you that there are numerous instances of this sanction being levied and I am sure your audit shall attest to this fact. I look forward to your reply regards this matter which, gauging by the establishment of banking conditions for and against punitive sanctioning, I feel we are close to resolving. Once again I reiterate that I do of course make this request without prejudice to any future claims that may or may not be made against your company with regards any of my accounts and any other charges that have been levied for whatever reason. Yours sincerely, Baba484 See what falls from the tree this time!

The blue touch paper has been lit, stand back and wait to see what is shaken from the tree!! XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX 19/06/09 Clydesdale Bank PLC 30 The Foregate Kilmarnock Ayrshire KA1 1JH Ref: internal bank charges raised against account XXXXXX Dear Sir/Madam, I write to you with the greatest of respects and wish to highlight to you the punitive actions you are raising against my account as referenced above; surely this must be an error. A £35 charge is being levied against this account for every unpaid internal branch transfer I cannot meet due to insufficient funds. I accept that having insufficient funds to pay external creditors is subject to some nominal charge however, considering this is an internal mono-branch transfer I must be regarded as both payee and creditor, where you effectively fine me for not paying me. I would have expected the most modest of audit of my banking arrangements to have highlighted this to you earlier however this has not happened. I would have assumed that my annual bank charges would have included some kind of auditing and suggested tailoring of my accounts to maximise them and, as the saying goes, “make my money work for me”, I have evidently slipped through the net. I therefore request, most humbly, that you review my accounts and reimburse all the levied charges of £35 where I have, to my cost, authorised an automated internal bank transfer when funds where unavailable. I feel sure that you will agree with this thinking and return these inappropriate charges accordingly for which I would be most grateful, furthermore I would appreciate documented data of your appraisal with regards the number of times this charge has been levied. I do of course make this request without prejudice to any future claims that may or may not be made against your company with regards any of my accounts and any other charges that have been levied for whatever reason. Yours sincerely, Baba484

Well stay tuned for we shall both find out in due course! Thanks.

Hi yourbank, Thanks for your prompt reply and advice. I was going to send them this letter (reproduced below) as an opening salvo before I went full on nuclear attack, test the waters and their will. My point is the internal transaction and not an external one. I am paying from one of my accounts to another one, if I don't have funds then they shouldn't attempt to take any. XXXXXXX XXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXX XXXXXXXX 08/05/09 Clydesdale Bank PLC 30 The Foregate Kilmarnock Ayrshire KA1 1JH Ref: internal bank charges raised against account XXXXXXXX Dear Sir/Madam, I write to you with the greatest of respects and wish to highlight to you the punitive actions you are raising against my account as referenced above; surely this must be an error. A £35 charge is being levied against this account for every unpaid internal branch transfer I cannot meet due to insufficient funds. I accept that having insufficient funds to pay external creditors is subject to some nominal charge however, considering this is an internal mono-branch transfer I must be regarded as both payee and creditor, where you effectively fine me for not paying me. I would have expected the very slightest audit of my banking arrangements to have highlighted this to you earlier however this has not happened. I would have assumed that my annual bank charges would have included some kind of auditing and suggested tailoring of my accounts to maximise them and, as the saying goes, “make my money work for me”, I have evidently slipped through the net. I therefore request, most humbly, that you review my accounts and reimburse them the levied charges of £35 where I have, to my cost, authorised an automated internal bank transfer when funds where unavailable. I feel sure that you will agree with this thinking and return these inappropriate charges accordingly, I would be most grateful, furthermore I would appreciate documented data of your appraisal with regards the number of times this charge has been levied. I do of course make this request without prejudice to any future claims that may or may not be made against your company with regards any of my accounts and any other charges that have been levied for whatever reason. Yours sincerely, Baba484

Hi all, (great site) I have a few accounts in the Clydesdale Bank PLC up here in Scotland. I had set up a weekly standing order which transfered funds from my current account to my budget account, the budget account being my main source of paying, via standing order, all my creditors. I am now paid monthly, and have been for a few months now, and therefore sometimes (a lot of times) my current account has insufficient funds to cover the weekly standing order to the budget account. I know the simple most expedient method would be to cancel it and administer it myself via internet banking, an option I shall do at a later date, however, as this "insufficient funds" scenario appears I am charged £35 every time. I am effectively fining myself via the bank because I am not paying myself every time. Now this was going to be my test letter to the bank asking (begging?) for these charges to be reimbursed without prjudice to any future claims to any other accounts to any other charges. Is it "legal" for them to charge £35 for what is essentially me paying myself via another account, is it essentially the same as me not paying an external creditor regards status of "crime" and punishable with the regular £35? Please advise on this, it would be most appreciated. What are the chances of getting this back from the bank? baba484