just had a word with her over the phone, looks like a bailiff was there today and apparently has put a paper through the door saying he has put a levy on MY CAR for an alleged debt under her name... this is definitively getting me involved now... grrrrr!!! Can you advise on how to proceed... ? any help would be greatly appreciated...

Yes, you are absolutely right. I apologize if i was either unclear or confusing. I never intended to submit anything such as e.g. the TE9/TE7 myself, or under my name. I meant SHE will submit any paperwork under her name. I am doing part of the research on the situation on her behalf though in order to assist her on deciding on how to proceed.

the car i indeed mine. I bought it with my own money years ago, and i got the seller to sign a document of sale with my name on it, which i still have, to prove it, as i was not comfortable to give all that money away without anything written to confirm it was indeed sold to me by that person. she is just the RK, as i bought the car for us both to use it but she loved the car so she used to drive it around up to a couple of years ago, but since then it was mostly me who drove it due to her disability. regarding the BB it was correctly displayed when we left the car, but it fell to the floor somehow, hence why the PCN.

thanks for the help so far i'll gladly clutch at any straws, since at this stage it is either pay up the £96 to the Bailiffs hoping they won't try any dirty tricks or go for the long shot. She's saying i have to be the one who pays up the £96 now because i own the car and i said i would look into it and do a bit of research in order to help her a while ago, (about 1 week before she got the letter from the bailiffs) but was too busy with work, so i was unable to actually do it for her for the last couple of weeks so she figures i am now responsible for the bailiffs being brought into the situation.... and quite frankly i would prefer to pay up the £96 than to start a stupid money argument with her over this... so its either the long shot TE7/TE9 or cough up the money... hence why i wanted to know more about this OOT TE7/TE9 submission process... and the responsibility issue... Case law... and if there are some examples and/or templates around... to see if i could put up the best possible defense for her and increase the likelihood of me not being the one who gets burned at the end of this process... although i have an annoyingly strong feeling that its what is going to happen... one way or another...

Thanks Do you know if there is any template or relevant thread around regarding similar situations when the RK was not the owner that i can look into, in order to to get some ideas on what to put on the late TE9 to submit to TEC asap?

thank you for your reply She asked me to help on this, so i am the one doing the research and the work for her and she will be the one signing and submitting the forms. I fully understand this may be a long shot now... but i wanted to know if this was an actual option, because at this point i don't see any other option apart from paying £96 to the bailiffs. Yes, I know that at the moment they are considering her to be liable. What i want is to understand if a RK receiving a PCN/NTO on a car owned or driven by someone else is able to identify and thus instruct them to pursue the relevant party thus passing the liability to either the driver or the owner, whomever is responsible. When i mean responsible i mean who is ultimately responsible according to the law... I know they send the paperwork to the RK, but using common sense i presume the RK is not responsible according to the law on parking offenses, but either the owner or the driver. So if that is the case i wanted to know which one is responsible. The thing is that there is no registry for Ownership and they always assume the RK is the owner, hence why they send the NTO to the RK. I presume the RK is only responsible if and only the RK is actually also the owner and only if the driver is not identified by the RK, but i have no way to know if this is the case or not because i don't know what is the applicable legislation and case law, so at the moment this is just a supposition on my part, hence my request for help on what is the applicable legislation and case law so that i can have a look.

I guess so. she only gave me the Order for Recovery and the Letter sent by the bailiffs, but i have no reason to think she didn't received the other ones, so i am assuming she got them. basically the problem here is that she apparently ignored this and now she's asking me to help her out i think she could have appealed this on the basis that she has a Blue badge and it was displayed correctly when we left the car, but must have fallen somehow as it was on the floor of the car when we got back and the parking ticket was issued... Consequently, i am trying to explore on whether if we could perhaps get this reverted back to a stage where i can file an appeal on her behalf about the blue badge which is what she should have done in the first place... by submitting the TE9 claiming that the actual owner of this car, which is me, or the driver at the time (wichever is the ultimately liable one) never received a Notice to Owner regarding this. how about the owner? I phoned the tribunal and they sent me an email for me to submit a late TE9, so i was wondering if this is a valid legal option but i have no idea what is the law and case law regarding this. Is there any possibility we can do that? and can someone point me to the relevant legislation and case law regarding this so that i can have a better idea on how to proceed?

Hi, I'm trying to resolve this issue with a PCN that has gone to Bailiffs for parking without a Blue Badge issue, (because the BB fell from the dashboard) on behalf of my partner and i would like to know if anyone is able to clarify 1- Who has the actual responsibility over this PCN under the law... Is it the Owner, Keeper or Driver? and 2- point me towards the legislation and/or case law that supports this? I am asking this because 3- i was wondering if it is still possible to submit a late TE9 appeal to the court on the basis that the notice to owner and/or PCN was never actually served to the owner? 4- And has anyone tried this before? Thanks in advance for the help.

Many thanks for your comments and advice. You are absolutely right. I could not agree more. My mother always told me that form a certain point on every communication without exception must be in writing. The problem is that communication in writing before that point can sometimes be a bit overkill, and trigger an allergic defensive reaction so there is a degree of common sense to pinpoint and decide when to go stop being informal/verbal and start to go down the exclusively formal/written route. To me it was during last phone call where he out of the blue started to clearly show he could not be trusted and that he is not in good faith regarding this matter. That is also why i decided to get this voice recorder, to perhaps get some record of what is being said in the future whilst making one final attempt to resolve this in a normal way. Yes, at least up to last friday so far i have never been denied access to my car to inspect it, get something from it or whatever. That is why i always know what's being done in my car (usually nothing at all). The other guy is there all the time working on his customer's cars and he's been always understanding and helpful. I am not sure due to his sudden change in attitude towards me and in light of what he said last friday if my future access to the car will be restricted in any way. But the other guy is very laid back, and he's mostly inside the garage working on his own thing with both the yard and the garage's gates fully open all the time and the car is all alone outside in the yard, so unless they put other cars in front of mine, if i had my key i could even drive it out or perhaps push it out, but not sure if i should. Much the contrary, for example last thursday i was there for over two hours waiting for the guy to meet me there as i was there in the morning around 12 and he arrived, went in and came straight back out but he said he would be there at 3pm to work on my car so he told me to be there at 3 as well. Needless to say i was there at 3 and he never showed up, he was not answering his phone or replying to my messages either, and i was there waiting for over two hours like an idiot until i left and he did not even bothered to pick up the phone or apologise So that was also why i called him on friday. (but i diverge) The point is that i arrived at 3 and after a while the other guy goes away and leaves the garage totally unattended, with the exception of that he knew i was in my car just outside the garage. So he felt comfortable in leaving me there as he knew i would keep and eye on the shop whilst he was away. So in reality if i had another key i could have taken my car away that day, or at least i could have pushed it out of the shop. Not sure if that would have any legal implications for me with regards to the "en lien" situation. But the fact is that contrary to him i am a man of my word and i am a trust worthy person so the thought never even crossed my mind while i was there all alone for well above 30 mins until his colleague got back.

As i just got access to a voice recorder i was reflecting a bit on regarding exactly what to do at this point, and basically i was thinking of going there one last time with the voice recorder and record whatever happens to see if i can sort this out which would be brilliant, but i am not putting my money on it to be honest or if it does not get sorted out then at least if i can get him to repeat some of the things he said to me on the phone the other day, but not sure if such recording would be admissible in court. I suspect it will take me perhaps the whole week and many hours or days waiting outside his workplace until he finally shows up. and i am not sure whether he'll even speak to me, but i guess i'll be able to get him to at least say something, so i am willing to give it a go and only go down the letter avenue as per (a) above after that last attempt is exhausted. again, i am open to comments and/or other suggestions on how to proceed. thanks in advance

Hi thank you for your reply you may be right, i may be too presumptive here but i am just getting worried and worried and my disbelief in his good faith stems from my experience so far and especially from our last conversation over the phone last friday where he suddenly changed his behaviour from his previous very friendly, very informal, easy going and approachable attitude to a sort of passive/aggressive, "i waaay smarter than you, so you better not test me and do as i say and shut up" stance, suddenly starting talking to me in a way as if he was a lawyer, getting all careful in his choice of wording, revisiting and reinterpreting everything he said before and threatening to retain my car "untill xmas" and even charging me storage. I have a strong feeling that i can anticipate his reply to any letter whatsoever, no matter what's in it will be pay up the full amount or i'm keeping your car. I think that as i am being very patient, calm polite and conciliatory throughout this entire time and every single time i talk with him, he figures i am a soft target. At one point halfway through the call, out of the blue he even said that he had been at his workplace all day "since 6am" working on my car, and that my car was finished. ????? To what I said, in that case, can i go and have a look and pick my car up? He said no. I asked why, he said “because i am not going to be here when you get here because i do not want to talk with you”, as if i was insulting him or something for understandably wanting to get my car back and pay him the money for repairing my car. ???? I told him that it wasn't normal for someone to not want the customer to go and pick up a finished car and pay the money owed for the job, so he then after a while, recognized the car was not finished but from then on he ostensibly and very deliberately began going to extreme lengths to avoid saying what was left for him to do on the car, as if he was thinking i might be recording the call. l obviously I went there straight away anyway which tool me about 15 mins and he was already gone. I could confirm straight away that his tale of being there “since 6 am” working on my car was obviously a lie. I called him around 3pm, so according to his tale he had about 9 hours working on my car. But in fact the only thing he did to the car that day was to screw back the headlights (which is just a simple matter of screwing 4 very easy access screws each and takes about 3 minutes each) and replace the bonnet spikes/springs that lock the bonnet with spare ones i had at home (which is even easier and takes about 2 minutes each to remove and 2 more to fit back) And he put these in just to test if they fitted, (eg, not bothered to plug in the lights) and all of that took him 15-20 mins at best and he did nothing else whatsoever in the car that day. This is exactly a perfect example of what he does. According to his mate, (apparently they just share the garage space but work independently) lately he goes there just for 1 or two hours does just a small bit of work on whatever car the owner is chasing him the most at any given time and then he is off again for the rest of the day and many time he does not show up there again for 2 or 3 days. My idea of him, from having to deal with him all this time, is that he is a crafty fella, that believes he can outsmart most people. I think he is trying to scare me into going there and pay what he wants just to get my car back and take the car as it is, even if its not repaired because he knows i know full well that he has a “in lieu” right on the car until he's paid whatever he thinks he's entitled. And its either pay asap whatever he wants, complete the repairs somewhere else and then hope to claim back from him in court with all the expense in money time and hassle it represents and no guarantee i’ll get my money back, or he simply keeps the car and i never see it again. So he figures i am smart enough to figure out that if i want my car back any time soon i have no other option but to give in to what he wants and pay up whatever he says. He told me in our last conversation that he has been here before, (Clearly!!!, plenty of times i am sure) and that he is "self taught" in legal matters so he has been to court a few times and "they always lose". And furthermore he had the nerve of accusing me of being another one of "those customers" that is secretly planning to rip him off by saying at the end that there is more work to be done and therefore want to pay less money. Again this is ludicrous!!! All this time all of my focus was just the time it was taking. The issue of money was never even brought up by me at anytime, so there was never any question whatsoever in that regard. I only ever spoke to him again and again about him not completing the repairs on time and me seeing he’s not being at his workplace most of the times and that being the reason why the repairs are not being done by him, so money has never been the issue for me. So, that is totally artificial and ludicrous, but furthermore he said he needs to protect himself from "customers like me" so he said he now refuses to speak to me in person (why??? As i was always totally calm and polite, clearly this is not the first time he has done this to someone) and he says he will not do anything else in the car until i hand in a written note to his mate at the garage detailing exactly and precisely what the repairs are and exactly what he needs to do to the car to repair it. Again i perhaps i am being presumptive, but I think that in reality this out of the blue note demand is just a hoop and potentially a trap. He’s trying to con and scare me into making me jump through hoops when he’s the one who should be getting his act together and actually doing his job. First of all I am not a mechanic so i am not qualified to say to him or anyone in a note how to repair collision damage on a car. So i am a bit concerned that if i do as he is demanding and do this wrong, and more importantly if i miss out anything important on the note he will use this against me and thus avoid having to do this or that because i did not specified it in the note he’s demanding. I think it is also another crafty excuse for shifting responsibility on any future the delays onto me, thus artificially creating something he can use to stop working on my car altogether, the responsibility of which he thinks he can pin on me, to artificially shift the responsibility for the delay onto me and if i do not comply with his demands he figures this will enable him to eventually start claiming he had a reasonable motive to charge a fortune for storage in the near future. But what i really and truly fear is that no matter whatever i put in the note if there is anything more than what he has already done, which was basically just the jigging, he is just going to say that was not included in the price he gave me, so its either pay up or go to court and my car will rot away in its greedy hands. So that is why i would like to avoid this altogether. I do not trust this person anymore, so i would really prefer to take my car to some other place to finish the repairs there. Hence the reason for asking for help from CAC members is that i am a bit unsure of my options from this point on. I thank you for your advice on the "time of the essence and ask him to declare his intentions" letter . I am also inclined to think this might be the best way forward. Last time i spoke with him this friday got me so worried that i literally spent all this weekend researching on this and i was already thinking of writing such a letter and even found one i was thinking of adapting in this site tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/glos/con1item.cgi?file=*adv0006-1011.txt but at this point there are few things i am unsure of. Primarily I am not sure if it is wise at this point to add other bits to the letter as well, so not sure if i should: a- just stick to a very short "time of the essence and ask him to declare his intentions" letter or b- whether to also include (inevitably long) narrative of what happened so far c- cave in to his demand and also include a description of what has been done so far and what else he needs to do for the repairs to be completed. d-none of the above, i) for example, if possible bypass him altogether and go straight to a court ask for the lien to be lifted, due to clear and repeated breach of contract or any other reason (potentially conditional with me agreeing to pay a fair percentage of the total amount, as per decided by the court and not him) ii) or any other suggestions you may have I am inclined to be cautious and go with just (a) for now as per your advice and see how this evolves from there. (one of the downsides being that my car will remain idles there for another week or too at least untill and/or if he replies back) but i am open to comments and/or other suggestions on how to proceed. I am sorry for the very long post but its a bit difficult to explain certain things without going into some considerable detail. PS- i do have a pocket voice recorder but not sure if in case i have a chance record my future conversations with him the recordings would be acceptable (as proof) in a court

I meant to say he has a lien on the amount owed for the work completed so far. Are you referring to the situation if i take my car paying only for the work done so far? When i mentioned that i was referring to the situation (which in my opinion is what he's planning on doing) where potentially i would be forced by him to pay (under protest) the full amount just to get my car back. Can you please clarify on the above? I do not see why this not being possible in the scenario where if i end up paying the full amount for the full repairs just to get my car back? If i end up paying for the full repair and he does not deliver on what was agreed i think i am entitled by law to do so. I know that and to be honest at the moment I am happy with that, as he has clearly demonstrated he is untrustworthy person, and he is repeatedly in breach of contract, so I just want my car back asap, and out of his claws either repaired or not. But his behaviour so far leads me to believe that it will not be easy to agree with him when it comes to how much is fair for what he has done so far and how much should i pay out of the agreed total for the repairs for the work done so far. He was supposed to jig it back into place, repair the remaining dents and creases, put some filler and paint and its repaired. Two weeks ago the car was still virtually untouched, so i got a bit more assertive and he guaranteed me the car would be ready within a week. Since then he did the jigging but not a lot more. That second deadline also passed and the car was still not repaired. At the moment he did only the 1/3 of the job so i am happy to pay only up to 2/3 of the total. And that is including a "desperation" premium that i am happy to pay just to get my car back and not have to fear for my car anymore. And this is where my problem lies. I have a strong suspicion that he will not let me take the car unless i pay him the full amount. I think he is in breach of contract, due to not repairing within the agreed time even when given subsequent opportunities required by law to complete the repairs he still failed to meet those deadlines as well, so i am not sure how or if it affects any “in lieu” right to prevent me from getting my car back asap. He has done some work, around 1/3 of it, so i am obviously happy to pay some money for his incomplete work, and although i have not discussed this with him yet his behaviour so far leads me to believe, or better i am 99.999% sure he’ll refuse any amount other than the full amount and he’ll say to me to pay up or take him to court to get my car back from him whilst my car rots there and he is happy adding up artificial extortionary storage charges to claim even more money he does not deserve out of me. So, in conclusion I was wondering if anyone could offer me some advice on the above and hopefully avoid me from having to give in to his blackmail and pay up for work he has not done just to get my car back. As he does not seem to be bothered in repairing my car any time soon.

Hi, thank you for your reply no quotation i writing, but my partner can witness what was the agreed amount, agreed work to be done and agreed time for completion of repairs as he came to our house the day we took the car to the garage and she was present honestly i do not think he will dispute the agreed amount but do i see the point that it all should have been in writing. it crossed my mind at the time but it looked a bit excessive as he looked a very easy going person so i regret it now. The damage was very light. The car was delivered to him with most of the parts already removed by me for him to have very easy access and be able to work on the damage straight away. The only parts that were not removed are the ones he specifically asked to be in the car for the purpose of him being able to re-align the car. The damage for him to repair are only the parts of the chassis within the engine compartment that got bent. So he was supposed to fix the chassis. My focus at this moment is how to get my car out of his dodgy hands as soon as possible and regain full control over my car as he is not there most of the time to even repair it, and it looks to me that he is happy for the car to remain idle and unfinished over there. I am not sure on how his reiterated breach of contract affects the "in lien" situation over the car. Would like to know if it is possible (or if there is any case law or similar precedent) for me to regain the initiative and perhaps go to a court to get like an injunction or something like that to get a judge to say i he should hand the car back to me and we'll sort out the money afterwards as for now he is not fixing my car and i fear he may be planning on holding my car for ransom and planning on extorquing me through my car being there.

Hi, I need some help!!! my car has some collision damage, that needs repair with a jig. Found a garage close by that does collision repair, jigging, bodywork and etc... Asked the guy there to take a look at the car and tell me if he could fix it. A mutual friend who is a mechanic said he worked ok, so it looked like i could trust him with repairing my car. The guy from the garage had a good look at it and said it would repair it for an xxx amount. and that it would take just less than two weeks. After 1 month and a half the car is still not fully repaired. I have chased him repeatedly over the phone, and I have been at the garage quite a few times to check on the progress and chase up on the repairs but the thing is that most of the times i go there he is not there and i get told by other people that share the place that he’s not being to work for days. During this time he has revealed himself to be a crafty and untrustworthy person and I am now concerned that he may be planning on not completing the repairs and holding my car for ransom forcing me to pay him for the work he has not done, or even worse perhaps planning on charging me a fortune alleging it is due to storage. I am a bit unsure of my options from this point on. I had a look at some consumer advice information and from what i could gather the law seems to say that the repairs need to be within the agreed time or i am entitled to take the car somewhere else and then claim back the costs from him. But i am not sure on how or if the above influences the “in lieu” situation, if it is enforceable in these circumstances and how can i get my car back as soon as possible preferably repaired. Thanks in advance for reading and for helping out.

thanks for your help so far Hallowitch regarding your questions -any correspondence went to her house as it is the keepers address at DVLA it is possible she received letters about this PCN previously but she's not sure as she had 2 other parking fines that she paid at the time and she thought she paid this one as well she says she might have confused PCN nrs thinking she had only 2 parking fines to pay she guesses that's why it remained unpaid, -dont think i paid within 7 days of the baylif letter she asked me if i could help out in paying on her behalf , as she didnt had enough money to pay, so i presume it took her a quite a few days to come to me and it took me at least 2 or 3 of days to actually pay because i know sometimes debt collectors pose as baillifs and i was a bit concerned in giving my credit card details to people i do not know so i tried to pay in full to the council a couple of times but they allways refused and told me to pay to the bayliffs -as i said i do have the receipt (Used Car Envoice) of the sale of the car to me saying very clearly SOLD TO: and my name on it, -car was bought by me way back in feb 2010 and the fine was issued in may 2010