Good Morning ! Some advice needed please. Would be great to see what people think my next move should be. I bought a car in 2006 through BMW, financed by Blackhorse. In 2008 my mother died suddenly from cancer and as a result I had to support my father who himself was rather ill. I phoned Blackhorse and they suggested I voluntarily terminate the agreement. I did this and returned the form that they sent. I still have a copy of this. The company that collected the car were Nationwide Vehicle Collections and they provided a receipt upon collection, dated 20th December 2008. Some 6 months later, Blackhorse wrote to me saying that I owed them £5468. I wrote back asking what this was for, and they wrote back saying that figure was wrong and infact I owed them £3512. This figure included a breakdown of costs. To my horror this breakdown of costs included repossession fees ! The car wasn't repossessed. I wrote to Blackhorse and did a SAR. Some 7 months later they replied ! I had sent another 6 letters by this time. Eventually I got the credit agreement and another letter stating that Blackhorse excercised their right under the agreement and repossessed the vehicle. They made it clear by stating this in 4 paragraphs of the letter. In the credit agreement it states that if I have paid more than 1/3 of the total amount owing under the agreement then the car cannot be repossessed without a court order. The total amount owing was £29145, I had paid, £11525. More than 1/3. The agreement goes on to say that if they do take the car without a court order then I'm entitled to all the money back. I wrote to Blackhorse and said, "As you are now saying the car was repossessed, I would like my £11525 back" etc etc as per above. Blackhorse have replied by saying that internally, repossession and voluntary termination mean the same thing. So when a letter is written saying your car was repossessed it actually means voluntarily terminated ! They have also stated that as only one letter sent to me states the car was repossessed they need more evidence that the car was repossessed !!!! More evidence of what ?!?! They were chasing me and hounding me, sending people to my door for the money they said I owed them, a large proportion of it being repossession fees and now that I have picked up on a clear breach of contract they are saying, they didn't mean repossession and that was a mistake !!!!! What evidence should I have to provide ? They have also agreed to write off the money they think I owe them and amend my credit file ! But I don't want to let them off that easily, and why should I !!! Next move ?!?!?! Any ideas ?!?!

Thank you again for everyones help. I phoned them and set up a standing order for £100 which will pay the account off within 6 months ! You are all very helpful. thank you again

Anyone ? any ideas ?

Thank you !

Good morning again everyone ! Some advice would be great. In 2008 I handed back my car as part of the voluntary termination clause. Some 6 months ago I received a letter from Blackhorse asking for fee's relating to the car being repossessed. I did a SAR on them and received for the first time a copy of the credit agreement. Attached with this came a letter stating, "Therefore as you not made an arrangement to collect your vehicle to voluntary terminate your agreement and you had made no payment on your account we executed our right to repossess the vehicle and your car was uplifted under these terms in January 2009" The credit agreement states that if you have paid more than one third of the total amount owed which for this was £9882.57 then Blackhorse must obtain a court order to take the car. At the date they uplifted it I had paid £11525. I wrote to Blackhorse and they replied by saying, they did not repossess the vehicle. I have 3 different letters stating that the car was repossessed. One of the letters actually states "In no uncertain terms, be clear that the car was repossessed". One of the letters actually details the cost to Blackhorse for repossessing the car. Whats my next move ? Court action ? Any ideas ?! Regards KD

Once again everyones help is amazing ! Consumeredge I phoned wrote to them and mentioned what you put and mentioned a few of the other snippets of help and low and behold the direct debit mandate has been set up again ! DONE ! Thank you again !

The terms on the agreement were to pay by the 8th of every month, however, I moved it to the 20th so that it tied in with my payday ! I get paid on the 20th of every month unless it falls on the weekend, so I would then get paid the day after ! I did set up a direct debit for the 20th but thinking there may be a problem I cancelled it and paid manually this month ! My bank statement shows it as being paid. What are my options ?! speaking to them in the morning ?! speaking to the court ?!

Any ideas ??!?!

Hopefully someone can help me ! In October last year I agreed to a consent order with Howard Cohen, where I would pay £50 a month on a debt that had been reduced by a large amount. In the last six months I have paid on time by the date asked. However, yesterday I received a letter from Howard Cohen saying that I had failed to pay the debt and unless I pay by the 11th March they will enforce the judgement ! I believe I had a case to answer at court as no CCA and invalid default, however, I had just got married and save this hanging over me I agreed to the order ! Whats my next move ?!?! What can I do ?!?! I could afford the full amount outstanding and if they enforce the judgement (ccj) I could face serious problems at work !!! HELP !!!!

Anyone have any ideas ??

Hello again ! Well, I took your advice, con and have heard nothing ! I spoke to the court today and they said that despite everything the judge has decided to deal with everything on the day of the hearing as there is such a short time to the trial. As we are now going to a hearing I've been doing a lot of reading. Waksman (carey HSBC) seems to have moved the goalposts. The application form that they have sent me does have elements of S61 but the recon terms and cons can't be from the original date as they have my current address on them rather than the address I had in 1998 ! What route do people suggest ? The default notice also has certain elements that are flawed !!!! Help ?!?!?!

THIS TEXT TAKEN FROM A POST BY DOCMAN - Can somebody explain to me how a High Court decision regarding S 78 (providing INFORMATION) can override the statute ( Ss 61, 65 and 127(3)) and also the House of Lords cases of Wilson v FCT and Diamond v Lovell ? The words of Lord Nicholls of Birkenhead were clear enough but I have highlighed the last sentence below: “28.….Section 61(1) sets out conditions which must be satisfied if a regulated agreement is to be treated as properly executed. One of these conditions, in para (a), is that the agreement must be in a prescribed form containing all the prescribed terms. The prescribed terms are the amount of the credit or the credit limit, rate of interest (in some cases), how the borrower is to discharge his obligations, and any power the creditor may have to vary what is payable (see Sch 6 to the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, SI 1983/1553). The consequence of improper execution is that the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor save by an order of the court (s 65(1)). Section 127(1) provides what is to happen on an application for an enforcement order under s 65. The court 'shall dismiss' the application if, but only if, the court considers it just to do so having regard to the prejudice caused to any person by the contravention in question and the degree of culpability for it. The court may reduce the amount payable by the debtor so as to compensate him for prejudice suffered as a result of the contravention, or impose conditions, or suspend the operation of any term of the order or make consequential changes in the agreement or security. 29. The court's powers under s 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where s 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor (s 127(3)). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order Thoughts ?!?!?!

Sorry Consumer Edge forgot to add the bit you asked about Hillsden ! Letter dated 25th august 2010, phone number 01280 845616 and address, buckingham Road, Brackley, Northants, NN13 7DN:-)

Hello. Consumer Edge I'm so sorry for not replying sooner. My other on-going problem with Barclays Bank taking £2228 from my account in a right to set off dispute meant that until I got paid today I couldn't pay for my broadband. Anyway, the ombudsman is dealing with Barclays and I'm hoping for some positive news shortly ! Anyway, back to this. Statement received from CL Finance on the 20th September. 20 days late. Phoned the court (CPR department) and they have confirmed after several checks that they have received nothing. The order, when judgement was set aside, stated that both parties MUST serve witness statements to the court and eachother by the 31st August 2010. I did this on 25th August to both and have recorded delivery slips/references to prove. After speaking with the court they advised that I write an email, explaining that CL Finance have issued a statement to me 20 days late. They have sent the case file upto the judge for his/her directions, however, they are talking about the claim being struck out as it clearly states that the statement must be received no later than the 31st August 2010. The court said I should hear from them with the judges directions within a couple of days. I also explained an that email that CL Finance have seemingly sold the debt to hillsden securities. I phoned Hillsden and they stated that they bought the account from MBNA direct. CL Finance stated that they had the account on a six month rolling contract and whilst between 6 months they sold it !!! How can they continue legal action when they sold the account !?!?!? Anyway, hopefully the judge will strike this out, as I have asked him/her to do in my email ! If he doesn't, does anyway have any thoughts on my defence at the hearing. The default notice I know through research is invalid as the date is wrong (stating 9 February 2010, when legal action started in May 2009) the total being asked for is wrong and they do not give the statutory 14 days to rectify, its only 9 days ! However, in the statement CL Finance sent, they included what they say is a certified copy of the credit agreement. This amounts to an application form, which I have signed, not signed my MBNA, and a reconstituted set of terms and conditons ! Section 127(3) and 61 even under Lord Waksman seems to suggest that this is not good enough !!!?!?! any thoughts !??!?

Hello consumeredge ! The court date is 8th October 2010 at Southampton County Court. 1030am. Although Hillesden Securities have said they are trying to obtain a certified copy of the original credit agreement ! Do you think CL Finance have thought, "If we sell this before we go to court then Hillesden can pick up the pieces" ? Should I phone/write to Hillesden at let them know ? Should I write to the court ?

Any ideas guys ? Bit confused with the Hillesden Securities letter ! Maybe CL Finance have sold the debt on without telling Hillesden that its at court ?!?!?!

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Hello again. Thank you so much guys for all your help. Little update. Phoned CPR department at the court today. Nothing received from CL Finance so papers being sent back to the judge. They think he will issue an unless order. Letter received from Hillesden Securities Ltd stating that they are trying to get original credit agreement from their client MBNA ?!?!?!?!? Can CL Finance/Howard Cohen sell this on when we are at court ?!?!?!?!

I have just emailed cohen cramer solicitors as Howard Cohens email address doesn't work ! Howard Cohen is now cohen cramer solicitors ! What should I do with regard to the default notice being issued 8 months after they started legal action ?!?!?!

MBNA have never sent anything. No notice that the account was sold. No credit agreement and the only default notice was one dated 10th February 2010, but they started legal action in May 2009 !

Thats a great bit of advice consumeredge......I have kept the unsigned consent order forms and will keep them just incase they try to falisfy my signature. Do you think they would try that ???

Hello again. Caro, am I write in thinking that Howard Cohen/MBNA have really cocked up here by issuing the default notice for the 10th February 2010, yet they instigated legal action in May 2009 ?!?! Also, I received the default notice in the post the day after I posted the witness statement to the court and Howard Cohen. What should I do now ? Apply to have the case struck out ?? How would I do that ?!?!

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Sent my statements off today to both the court and CL Finance. I received a default notice from MBNA today, dated 10th February 2010 ??? CL Finance started legal action against me in May 2009 !!!! Does this make sense ?? Can they commence legal action before even sending me a default notice ?? It seems to me that they have done this after my request at court ! Made it up !! Also, the default notice has a number of issues ! They have not given the 14 days between the date of the notice and the date given to rectify it ! Thoughts ?? KD

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