DarwinUK
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Just had an email from these muppets. "We act for the Claimant and have notified the Court of our Client’s intention to proceed with the claim. Please find attached a copy of our Client’s completed Directions Questionnaire, which will be filed with the court upon their request. You will note we intend to request a special direction that the case be dealt with on the papers and without the need for an oral hearing This request is sought simply because the matter is in our Client’s opinion relatively straightforward and the costs incurred by both parties for attending an oral hearing would be disproportionate. You will note our Client has elected not to mediate. Its decision is not meant to be in any way obstructive and is based purely on experience, as mediation has rarely proven beneficial in these types of cases. Notwithstanding this, our Client would be happy to listen to any genuine payment proposals that you wish to put forward. " Ive replied stating that I want it to go to court, and asking if I need to fill out any form. I cant believe the arrogance of these two companies. Pay up now before it gets to court to save yourself money, cause we're gonna screw you.
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Hi I've got all the letters and emails all in date order, and the emails from the HA as well all in a nice plastic wallet. Plus the photos that need printing out. So that's nearly all there.
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Hello ericsbrother. Yep you're spot on. They believe they are the "Big man" outside of court and that I will bottle out and ask for a payment plan. Unfortunately for them they are assuming wrong. I will have to do a lot of running around, turn up to court, but to kick their butts it will be worth it.
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Disclosure stage, is that just before the court date, or what comes out of their mouths on the day ?
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Hi Everyone. Just had this email reply from Gladstones: Dear Mr XXXXXXXXX[/FONT] Thank you for your correspondence. We refer you to CPR 31.14 (1) (a) which states that a party may only request a copy of a document which is mentioned in another party’s statement of case. As the documents you have requested are not mentioned within the Claimant’s statement of case, these will not be disclosed. Yours sincerely, Ellie Coughlan Litigation Assistant e : ellie@gladstonessolicitors.co.uk
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OK. I will take a couple of days to get the defence letter written and then re-post. Not having been in this position means I have no idea whats expected, or what will happen. Ive been a witness a couple of times, been to a DWP tribunal before. Am I to assume that this case will be sort of like a DWP tribunal, informal, sitting at a table etc ?
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Oh Yes, thats the bad boy that got sent. Just working out if I should send a nice sarcastic letter to Gladstones about UK CPM paying me to NOT go to court and cancelling the Parking Charge Notice, due to them not having a contract with the HA, see if it gets sorted without anymore aggro from them.
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If thats the letter to Gladstones, then yes I did send, they should have received it this morning.
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Sorry thought I had.
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Hello Everyone. ericsbrother. 15th Aug received the county court claim. Date of issue was 14th Aug. 16th Went online to the court site and entered my details as instructed by dx100uk Im trying to upload a pdf of photos as requested by honybee, but see below as to what my defence will be. 1. It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of [car reg]. 2. It is denied that the Claimant has complied with Schedule 4, Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. The alledged parking charge offence took place on 29/04/2017, the Notice To Keeper letter was issued by UK CPM on 16/04/2017 and received by the registered keeper on 20/05/2017. This notice has therefore not been served within the time limits specified by the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4. 3. It is denied that the Claimant entered into a contract with the Defendant. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the carpark is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper Claimant is the landowner. 3A - Sovereign Housing have confirmed they have no contract with UK Car Park Management. 4. If there was a contract, it is denied that the parking charge is incorporated into the contract. As per Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking [1971] 2 QB 163, the relevant term must be made known before a contract was formed. Here, the charge was not incorporated into the contract because : A - The signs were not clearly visible, B - Placed too high up on the posts, C - Too far away from the entrance to the car park D - After receiving the Notice To Keeper I visited the car park to take photos. One of the conditions on the sign is "You must park wholly within a marked bay. No parking on roadways / yellow lines / paved / hatched or landscape areas". The bays are not clearly marked as which are assigned to tennants and which are visitor bays, and other vehicles were parked on roadways and pavements. E - UK Car Park Management do not physically attend the car park to manage parking. A designated tennant takes photos of cars, emails them to UK Car Park Management, UK CPM then raise a Notice To Keeper and on payment of the Parking Charge Notice the designated tennant is paid ten pounds. 5. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Dyson Close.pdf
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Thanks to everyone. Im going to get the letter to Gladstones done over the weekend and send it. Ive a sneaky feeling they're not going to back down, maybe expect me to cave in and just pay up, or not attend court and then get judgement against me. Under the circumstances I have to defend this. The whole setup at the address where UK CPM operate, just smacks of an amateur company trying it on. The whole site doesnt look right, the tenant taking the pics has a financial gain and doesnt feel right, it all just stinks. UK CPM may be thinking that I will panic or not be up to all the running around. I also went back to the site the day after receiving the NTK and took photos of the site layout. Parked my car where it was when the photos were taken, and took photos from the view of the window. Is it worth getting these printed out and take with me to court to show as evidence ? Thanks Phillip
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LiT = Litigation ? For attending court and defending myself ?
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Hello dx100uk Hope so.... .. So do I still wait the full time before posting my defence ? Or do I do it early ? Im definitely going to ask for costs. Do I add a request to claim for costs at the court, or online ? Please excuse me asking silly questions, never been in this position before. And Im assuming costs mean travel expenses / parking only, and that asking for extra for harrassment wont wash.
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Sorry ericsbrother, but you keep saying my car was at my own home, in a parking space outside my own home. It wasnt. I didnt receive a Parking Charge Notice for parking outside my own home. The Notice To Keeper was sent because the car was parked at another private car park owned by the same HA as I rent my place from. I have now received confirmation from the HA saying that there is no agreement between the HA and UK CPM, so Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC) must be relevant. I will also take your advice about the tennat taking piccies etc. Thanks Phillip
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Thanks dx100uk. Online done, letter done, going into post.
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Name of the Claimant : UK Car Park Management claimants Solicitors: Gladstones Date of issue : 14 Aug 2018 Particulars of claim 1.The driver of the vehicle registration (the vehicle) incurred the parking charge(s) on 29,04.2017 for breaching the terms of parking on the land at Dyson Close - Dyson Close Newbury Berkshire RG14 5QD 2.The defendant was driving the vehicle and/or is the keeper of the vehicle. 3.AND THE CALIMANT CLAIMS 160 pounds for parking charges/ Damages and indemnity costs if applicable, together with interest of 15.51 pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at 8% pa, continuing to judgement at 0.04 pence per day Value of claim : 250.51 Has the claim been issued by the Private parking Company ? Yes 1. It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of .... 2. It is denied that the Claimant has complied with Schedule 4, Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. The alledged parking charge offence took place on 29/04/2017, the Notice To Keeper letter was issued by UK CPM on 16/04/2017 and received by the registered keeper on 20/05/2017. This notice has therefore not been served within the time limits specified by the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4. 3. It is denied that the Claimant entered into a contract with the Defendant. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the carpark is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper Claimant is the landowner. 4. If there was a contract, it is denied that the parking charge is incorporated into the contract. As per Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking [1971] 2 QB 163, the relevant term must be made known before a contract was formed. Here, the charge was not incorporated into the contract because : A - The signs were not clearly visible, B - Placed too high up on the posts, C - Too far away from the entrance to the car park D - After receiving the Notice To Keeper I visited the car park to take photos. One of the conditions on the sign is "You must park wholly within a marked bay. No parking on roadways / yellow lines / paved / hatched or landscape areas". The bays are not clearly marked as which are assigned to tenants and which are visitor bays, and other vehicles were parked on roadways and pavements. E - UK Car Park Management do not physically attend the car park to manage parking. A designated tenant takes photos of cars, emails them to UK Car Park Management, UK CPM then raise a Notice To Keeper and on payment of the Parking Charge Notice the designated tenant is paid ten pounds. 5. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.
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Daft question. Ive drafted the details from the link, do I post it here ? Ive also contacted the HA for a Freedom of Information request to see what type of contract they have with UK CPM Thanks Phillip
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Hello Everyone. Yesterday I received the Northampton County Court Claim Form. Would you be able to offer advise on how to go online and respond. Thanks Phillip Particulars of claim "The driver of the vehicle registration *** (the vehicle) incurred the parking charge(s) on 29,04.2017 for breaching the terms of parking on the land at ADDRESS. The defendant was driving the vehicle and/or is the keeper of the vehicle. AND THE CALIMANT CLAIMS 160 pounds for parking charges / Damages and indemnity costs if applicable, together with interest of 15.51 pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at 8% pa, continuing to judgement at 0.04 pence per day
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Silly question. Whats free POP ?
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Dear sirs, your client know that there is no cause for action against me, they are claiming for a breach of contract that does not and cannot exist, was never offered by way of signage and in short they don’t have a hope in hell in making a successful claim. However, I'm sure that as the world’s greatest authority on parking matters you are quite happy to encourage them to waste their money on a wild goose chase so at least let them know that they don’t stand a chance in hell of getting a penny and will suffer a claim for costs and a counterclaim for breach of the DPA as they have made untrue claims to obtain my keeper details.
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Im going to send the letter ericsbrother said to do. Print it tonight and send it recorded so they cant say they never received it,
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Thanks Ericsbrother, now it all makes sense. Maybe I was being stupid in thinking courts were all about being honest and that lawyers etc were supposed to be honest and trustworthy. Now thats probably the funniest / daftest comment you are probably going to hear.
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I appreciate what you are saying, I really do, please believe that. But let them state rubbish all they like. I have to be seen to be trying to sort this out and stating the facts rather than ignoring. Ignoring makes me look guilt, so let them ramble on all they like. They didnt issue the pcn in time so dont have a claim. I believe in the adage that outside of court they may rule, but let them take me to court because its then that I will show that they were just threatening chasing money they have no right to have. They are hoping I cough up now and that Im scared of going to court. They believe that Im thinking "These are solicitors so must know what they are talking about", and that Im going to pay. Im going to send a letter including your bit as well and then let them threaten all they like. Ill then wait for the court papers and then fight it. There is two possible outcomes, 1 they will go die a horrible death and leave us all alone, or 2 take me to court and fail. Let them take me to court and make up all the crap they like, I have the papertrail and will use their own crap to screw them over. I will make them look desperate and that they are fraudulently trying to obtain money from me by lying and making up stuff. Sometimes keeping it simple and to the point can help a long way. Let them change anything I have already said. The simple truth is that the pcn wasnt issued correctly and the bays are unenforceable. There is also the other issue of the tenant who has a financial gain for photographing as many cars as he can, as he gets 10 pounds per ticket paid. Id even be happy to get witness statements from carers who have been seen going into the flats and then getting tickets. Yes Im going to have to put some work into this as Gladstones dont want to lose face. But they will if I win the case and then sue them, and their client, for damages and harassment and anything else, which will then put put online all over the place. Let them do all the dirty tactics they like, its more ammo for me.
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Im sorry but you're confusing me here. You've previously stated above when I first posted that "In short, the notice was sent out too late to create a keeper liability." now you are saying something completely different. I sent my first and only letter to CPM telling them they were out of time, and now its gone to letter before claim. So doesnt that fact that the company has failed to do things within the time limits mean that the keeper has no liability. Plus there is the photographs showing poor signage and parking bays with no clear white lines showing what is a bay, and what isnt. Most blocks of flats have bays with numbers, these numbers relate to the flat number, bay 1 for flat 1 etc . Then there is visitor bays cleary marked as visitor bays and then disabled bays. So how about making a case on the following : 1 - the pcn wasnt issued within time 2 - the bay markings and signage make the private car park unenforceable.
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Hi ericsbrother. The address that the pcn was issued wasnt my home address. Plus the only breach of dpa was not getting the letter on my door mat within the allotted time.
