if there is nothing in writing in the original agreement to say that a guarantor will be required and then the LL later states that this will be a requirement of the contract IRRESPECTIVE of credit checks then he has in my opinion shot himself in the foot when all the agent had to do was stick with the original agreement that your credit declined and your deposit was forfeit- NOW i think you have a good case for a claim

whilst i agree your need legal advice- you will be jointly and severally liable which means that the LL can persue whoeveer he feels he has the most chance of getting the money from most parents are well established and as your guarantors the threat of bankruptcy should not be taken lightly. like you (and everybody else) the landlord is trying to make a living and you should also see the situation from his point of view- if he let the property in good faith and probably having a mortgage to pa on the property he is surely entitled to seek compensation if you breach the contract- not preaching just saying that morals come into play as well as legalities- you should talk to the LL and try to come to a solution there would be nothing stopping you enjoining the girls or their guarantors in any action (if you knew where they were), or of suing them later in your own right for their share like y

i think that you are all jointly and severally liable which means that you are not just responsible for your own share but anyone elses who the LL cannot get money from,-

i think youll find mr shed is spot on with this one

this thread gives me the distinct impression that a [problem] was at work heere personally i very much doubt the fake lLL story

may i suggest also that if you intend to rent again the new landlords will ask for references!!

should have read twelve

i would respectfully disagree as it can be equally argued that a 6 month period was agreed and the dates were an error or alternatively it was a we month period and the reference to 6 months was an error- who is o say which it was! i think Cab OR your house insurers If you have legal cover) may be worth a call on this one

i may be out of my depth here but i feel sure that if the landlord has to ask you to leave during the period of your (AST) tenancy to conduct major repairs he has to pay your removal and alternative accomodation charges someone with more legal knowledge might like to comment and i suggest you speak to CAB on this

and bear in mind that the landlord MAY have (should have if he had any sense) taken photos at the outset! no one can be compelled to sign any document retrospectivley

NO the mistake is not sufficient to make a material difference

it matters not a jot if she was or was not in the country at the time- if you are 100% happy that it is not her signature tell the council that you will argue that in court and produce evidence froma handwriting expert for whose costs they will be liable- trust me if the beleive you are serious they will back down you could also in the meantime take the forged document to the police and make an allegation of deception against the landlady ( and tell the council you have done so)

at an educated guess i would say that that the contract between your landlord and his agent has nothing to do with you and i should stay well out of it.

when you say that the agents accepted that the second carpet clean was acceptable was this in writing? if so job done.

i',neither a landlord or a tenant but it never ceases to amaze me that tenants are quick to have a pop at bad landlords but then bleat when they break their side of a contract and want to get out of their responsibilities. all it needs is for each side to appreciate the others position and the moral obligation should prevail!

i post this advice as a retired certificated bailiff . do not accept these old wives tales about selling stuff to your family or friends, bailiffs are (contrary to popular beliief) intelligent people. If the bailiff thinks the receipt is dodgy then so will the judge or registrar that you will have to apply to to get compensation, the bailiff is allowed to still sieze and sell the goods (including jointly owned goods of man and wife even if the wife is not involved in the debt) if he believes the receipt (however old it appears) is bogus. It is then up to you to apply to the courts to disprove this- expensive and given the comments i made earlier about judges not being fools either- extremley unlikely. if the bailiff has not entered by all means prevent entry and he can do nothing (but may well return on a warm summers day when your doors are not locked! by all means ship out stuff prior to the bailiff calling- but once listed it is a criminal offence to dispose of them. by the time the bailiff is involved it usually means that all attempts to get you to pay even by instalments have failed and it really is the last chance saloon prevent entry then WRITE (dont phone) to the bailiff company 9copy the creditor) and make offer of regular payments and include the first payment as a sign of goodwill keep making payments even if the bailiff company refuses to accept them, or write directly to the creditor and ask them to accept payments and call the bailiffs off. bailiffs (again contrary to popular beleif) are after the people who WONT pay not the people who CANT pay!

im sorry to contradict your advice but the bailiff company IS entitled to make an administration charge for sending out the letter and before any visit is made which will then incurr more charges bailiffs these days also make a note of the colour of the door or take a photo to prove that they visited

thanks i guessed that is what it was- personally i would get a friend to sign my signature so that if it turns up by return on a so called agreement id have them well and truly by the short and curlies- cant imagine anyone wanting to be reported for conspiracy to defraud.

thats that sorted - thanks

ive been reading these interesting threads for hours andone theme crops up time and again DONT SIGN THE CCA REQUEST is this because there is a possibility that the creditor would copy it and affix it to an agreement? if this is so then how about a friend signing the request in something of s similar way to your signature. if this appears on a response from the creditor as an alleged signed agreement from way back it seems to me that fraud, conspiraccy to defraud would be the least of the creditors problems and would certainly blow any claim thy might have right out of the water- in fact i suggest they would back off any claim like lightneing if however it is for some other reason that letters ar enot signed i'd love to know why thanks

to answer earlier points the placing on credit files of the arrangement to pay reduced payments WILL have a serious detrimental effect on your credit rating (in fact i think you will find- especially in the present climate) that it will stop further credit- after all what you are saying is you cant manage to pay agreeed debts- hardly likely to persuade a new lender to lend to you) i think that you should be realistic about this- you cant have your cake and eat it! personally i think that if one is in this position a 6 year moratorium on gaining further credit is a blessing in disguise - especially if you got into a mess because you couldnt or wouldn't control spending can they claim back charges- well all the time they are in default they cannot claim interest or charges, although the original debt will still be there

if they fail to comply then the debt becomes unenforceable and no interest can be added the debt does not go away but they can only enforce if they later come up with a cca im no expert but on extensive reading of the posts it seems the best policy once they have committed the offence is to do nothing and pay nothing until such time as you receive a court summons A claim cannot succeed at county court unless they provide the cca on which they base their claim It is unlikely that they would have it otherwise they would have sent a copy to you, and if they DO have it they have to explain to the court why they did not provide it with regard to persistent pesterring may i suggest that if you have put all your debts under this regime and got no cca's back whilst you could sent the telephone harrasment letter personally i would send the communication by post only letter and then (easy to do) change my telephone number to an xd number - sorts the problem permanently and you can thereafter never give your landline number to any creditor if you take out new credit by yourself a cheap pAYG phone and give that as your contact number (easy to ditch if it gets abused)

one thing you should check is the date that YOU signed and the date that THEY signed if they signed the agreement BEFORE you did then this is not a valid agreement (i suggest you search through the posts for the answer to this) as i beleive this then constitutes an offer subject to further conditions

as a matter of interest can i ask two things:- a credit card taken out online - does that need a signed contract? or is the online application (which of course cannot be signed) the legally binding agreement? secondly what is the reason for not signing a cca request - surely a creditor could argue to a court that the unsigned request might not have been from the debtor therefore they felt obliged not to reveal information to someone else in the household (data protection) thanks diddydicky

unsecured creditors can apply for ( and increasingly will get) a charging order if you fail to keep up payments on a ccj they have obtained, This simply means that they can take their money at the time your house is sold before you get your hands on the proceeds (and after any secured creditors by way of 1st 2nd mortgage etc) This action is also notified to your mortgagors so they will become aware of the debt. only in extreme cases where you continue not to make some payment to the creditor could they apply for force the sale of the property Although at this present moment in time interest rates are very low, under normal circumstances, once a ccj is in place and if the payments are low enough it can pay you after a year or so to make an offer in full and final settlement - the longer the period of payback under the ccj the more likely they are to accept a reduced settlement as it costs them each time you make a payment