Hi, thanks for your reply, I appreciate you taking the time to do so. I read through that link you provided prior to coming here, and it didn't answer the questions I have asked. The OR can take money for up to 3 years. When you say 'it will be on your record for 10 years', what exactly are you referring to? My Bankruptcy? If such is the case this is not an issue I am overly concerned with, however I was told when I went to the county court that It would only be on my record for 6 years.

So, I finally went bankrupt last week. Went to my local Court, got everything signed and today received a letter from the Official Receiver informing me of when she will be calling to talk things over, and providing me with the 'what happens next' info. It all seems pretty straight forward to me, but there are a couple of things I'd like some advice on First up, how long exactly will the Official receiver be in control of my estate as it were? It seems to me that it should be for only as long as I am Bankrupt, and that once I am discharged, that will be the end of it. But something in the information she provided made it sound like the Official Receiver can still have control even after I am discharged. So how long exactly is this for? When will I finally be completely free to move on with my life, not having someone watching my every move. Secondly, at the moment I am unemployed, but if I get a job, how much is she likely to take from me? I understand that it generally works out to be about 50-70% of disposable income, but the problem is, if I get a job, ALL my wages will be disposable income. Will she really take between £500 and £700 off me every month? If she does, I may as well have not bothered going bankrupt as that would be pretty much the same as my just paying my creditors normally. Thirdly, if I got a job, I would be in a position to meet all my repayments every month as standard, it is only that I have been out of work for 18 months and the charges and interest are astronomically high that, in my mind, I couldn't catch up. Would the OR be likely to advise the court to annul my Bakruptcy if I got a job considering I could probably make all my monthly repayments. Fourth. Would I be better served waiting until I am discharged to take work? Thanks for any advice you can provide. These are questions that have been bothering me, but I don't feel comfortable asking the OR.

As I've repeated often, Im just passing on information from a BoA perspective so people can get inside the BoA 'mind' and understnd their perspective and how they do things. Doesn't it help to 'know what your enemy is thinking'? Anyway, please, read my thread, and use what I've put in their as best as anyone sees fit. I accept that people can be suspicious and demoralized by banks, and can be unwilling or unable to see anything past the bad (of which there is plenty, I won't deny that) So I'll not enter into discussions about it. If my thread is useful, please use it, if not, then good luck to everyone who goes up against BoA.

Groovy, I never knew that. Good job too really, I would have been telling everyone to send one and probably have got myself the sack

love it.

Thats a fair call, and I certainly can't fault your reasoning. Rory is spot on here. AS long as you have made it openly known to them that calls are unwelcome, then logging and recording is the way to go. By the by, one thing that DOES work with BoA, if you can record harrasing phone calls, get the name of the grunt you are speaking to, department, line manager etc, even speak to manager if you can, then make a copy of the call and send it to them with a note that you are sending to OFCOM and FOS, and they back down sharpish. BoA work under the assumption that anyone who is saying 'I am recording, I will report you' is bluffng and have no idea what they are talking about. A copy of the tape shows them that you DO know and you ARE willing to go that distance.

Who do you think you are sir? I come here to try and help people by providing information based on what I know from my time working in BoA. If you would take the tiem to read my posts, it would be clear that I am neitehr a BoA employee nor a troll. Just because you and others here seem to have a negative stigma toward speaking to BoA does not mean that you are correct sir, and my difference of perspective does by no means make me a troll. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't this forum a place where we come to share our collective knowledge to assist in our difficulties and disputes with the banks and othe financial institutions? I am here to openly show you how BoA think and work so anyone who is delaing with BoA knows what to expect. In what way does this make me a troll, sir? Because my knowledge and experience from being on the other side differ from what you believe to be the case? Well I am sorry, I didn't realise a prerequisite of being on this forum was to only post things which tie in with what you believe to be true. So if you will be so kind as to tell me everything you know, I will endeavour in the future to make sure I only post what is right according to you.

Does the SAR cost of £10 mean they MUST send you every statement they hold?

You are exactly right. this was pretty much why I opted to leave. BoA have this desire to be the most respected, and their method is to confound customers into thinking they're getting a better deal form BoA than they are anywhere else. We were actually told that as long as we were resepcted and admired more than our rivals, that was the most important thing. Again, ther methods are down to appearences. They cling to their level of compliance to regulations because it make them appear above board. They train their staff to care and take an interest in customers because happy customers are more profitable. And yes, they even DO care if you have financial difficulties and do honour what they put in place with you because, in their eyes, even if they are taking money from someone who is struggling, at least they appear to be caring. ITs all about appearneces to BoA. AS for the thousands who dislike BoA? To them that is acceptable, they see those people as being 'bad eggs' and portray them as such. Banker_Rhymes. Would care to just come out and say whatever it is your trying to say? It sounds to me like you are accusing me of being a troll. Is this case? And if it is, why? Because I have a different perspective from you, because I can play the devils advocate and telly ou how BoA see things and do things, despite your reservations? Just because you don't like what I have to say, does not make me a troll sir.

Please man, don't do this. Your disregarding everything Im telling you based on what? Bad experiences? I really don't want to argue about this. BoA are fine to talk to as long as you maintain control of the conversation and get confirmation in writing of everything said.

Oh no, its always worthwhile if the outcome is worth the journey. Just be aware that it can be a difficult ride wth BoA. Your first step is to find out all the charges you want to claim back. BoA only hold statements for 6 up to 6 years prevous, if your looking longer than that, and you don't have the statements yourself, they could be very dfficult to reclaim. If they are no more than 6 years, then BoA have the statements, but not to immediate recovery, they take time to dig out from wherever they are kept. (I actually don't know where they are kept). Thing to note, BoA charge £4 for every statment you want reproduced. I don't know if anyone has found a way to get copies of them without charge, Id never heard of it happening.

I don't blame anyone for not trusting banks. Il say it again, I left BoA because I know their S&P's are unfair. the BoA approach is this 'Give the outward view that we are doing the right thing for the customer, then screw them over as best we can'. Talking to BoA is great for people who need a footing, because the grunts are good people and they DO want to help as much as they can. Believe it or not, a lot of them DO genuinely care when soemone gets into trouble. But the company only want customers to feel like they're being treated well so they can have an easier time of taking your money. What always irritated me with BoA is that grunts work the collections department, and they need permission to even scratch their own noses from a manager, so you hitting them with 'no calls, only writing' and sputing law at them is an effort in futility. They have no idea what your talking about. (Some DO, but these are just the people who are genuinely keyed up about these things). To the grunts, what FSA says is law, because thats what they are trained to know. Often it is the case that FSA support is enough. Arguing the toss with them only puts customers across as 'acting smarter than they are' (a verbatim quote from a manager who was there when I first started), and unfortunately that is what they are trained to believe. Grunts are made to belieev that customers just don't understand and they have to spout T&C's and FSA regs at them until satisfied. Don't know about anyone else, but that for me is a perfect example of irony if ever there was one. Never blame the grunts, its not their fault. If their attitude sucks, feel free to give them hell about it, the bosses do. Again it comes down to wanting that image of 'customer first'. Sniping and yelling at custoemrs does not go down well in BoA.

Ayeayeaye. I'd really rather not get into an argument about this. Im sure you have good cause to not trust MBNA. But there are a few things important to note. First, up until a year ago, BoA standards and practices were not in place in the company. Harrasment, lies et al were common place, as it is with all dca's. In the past year BoA have been bringing their own S&P's into the company, and the way things work has been changing. ITs not by any means perfect, god no its not that, but, BoA staff CAN be trusted. If you call them and arrange something with them, they will honour it. In the past they did only what was good for them. That was an MBNA practice. BoA hates negative publicity so is making the changes necessary for good publicity to be the norm. And one of the things that has changed is 'fair treatment' of its customers. And yes I do say that with tongue firmly in cheek, however, compared to past practices, things have changed for the 'better'. Yes mistakes DO happen, grunts DO screw up (fairly frequently), but they are not out to decieve you or cheat you, which, frankly, when it was still running as MBNA, that is exactly what they did. I can only reiterate, talking to them can help, beause the grunts on the phone want to help. MBNA perspective was 'get what we can however we can' BoA is 'get what we can, however is best for the customer'. The difference is simply that even when they are taking money you struggle to afford, you are content knowing that you have set up an agreement that you are happy with. and they DO honour it. But again, I will say, mistakes do happen, people do screw up, so always get paper trail an transcripts of what was agreed. As I said above, you can ask for complete transcripts of notes made on any call you make to BoA. So if you are to call, for any reason, get those transcripts sent out to you so if they do screw up, its one more paper trail. But again, remember, in talking to them onthe phone, BoA will always try to get something out of you, that is the downside. If you want what you want without having to negotiate an agreement where you also pay something to BoA, then don't call. My main piece od avice for anyone who is mailing correspondance with BoA is to call them anyway, and tell the grunt to make a note on your file to say that you are sending a letter. How much you tell them about the letter is down to you, but if you make this one call at least, then again, records of BoA's knowledge of the letter is on your file. MBNA BoA have been known in the past to 'not know' about a letter sent to them, and to be fair, unless its registered mail (which I would recommend) A simple 'lost in the post' excuse would suffice. Remember your accounts with BoA, the files are yours and you have a right to see them. You also have a right to have notes added to them whenever you ask. So calling and telling them to make a note of everything you are doing is always a good idea as it is a 2nd permanent trail, along wth the paper one.

And just as respectfully, I would ask you to appreciate where Im coming from on this. BoA has millions of customers, and believe me, I've sat through enough calls and enough meetings where this and similar subjects have come up. Compared to the number of unsuccesful attempts there have been, believe me, Slim to none is the case. I won't tell you its not possible, it is, and Im here to give as much insight into how BoA work for people who are going up against them. But I won't sit here and tell you its guarenteed, when it is not. I just want to help people get any extra edge I can. We've all been at the bad end of unscrupulous bussiness practices from banks and dca's, so I figure any insight I can bring will be worthwhile. As I've said before, I don't agree with BoA practices which is why I left. OK, as for the 'why do BoA think uk law doesn't apply to them'. Heh, Im not too sure what to say to this. BoA don't hold uk law in contempt, they work with it no differently to other banks or credit card companies or dca's. What they DO do, is make sure that everything they do is OK by regulatory bodies such as FSA, which I can tell you, it is. So again, its really an issue with FSA. Not trying to swerve blame or fault away from BoA, far from it, BoA have plenty of fault, but this idea that BoA openly ignores UK law because they feel they are not obliged to obey it, is false. Or at least, it is false to the extent of them being any worse than other banks. Really, this is an accusation which should be levelled at all banks, dca's ccc's equally. My question has never been 'why does the bank do this' its always been 'how can a bank get away with this'. For me, that is the rub. They are allowed to get away with these things because regulatory bodies tell them its ok. Why? Why can they do this if they are wrong?

Thats a question I can't answer for sure. However I can give you an educated guess. What is likely to be the case is that, when BoA bought out MBNA, they retained the MBNA image and name rights. Now Im no expert on how Business brands and logos and names etc can be used, but I DO know that BoA have continued to masquerade as MBNA because people in UK recognize the MBNA brand. In essence, whilst MBNA as a company, a seperate entity does not exist any more, as a BRAND, which is to say, as an image of a company, it does. And in that respect your case with them can be presented as being against MBNA as that is the face they currently present. Im also not a banana of any kind, but it seems to me that if court action against a company had to be in the 'parent' name, then many companies would never go to court as they are only single divisions of larger franchises and conglomerates. Basically, its BoA you are going up against, but they are still using the MBNA brand. Also check your official docs regarding this. the actual name for this company in uk is Bank of America Europe Card Services, whether that name appears or not I obviously don't know.

Yep always stick to the letters. I ALWAYS reccomend talking to BoA if you can as the grunts on the phone tend towards patience and understanding, and they do work hard and do their best to get what they can for you. However, dealing with them on the phone has 1 draw back, they still want 'their' money and will always try to get it back off you, even whlst helping you. If anyone ever does call them, always get anything agreed to or discussed in writing so there is that paper trail. BoA DO honour agreements made over the phone, but its rare that anything agreed to over the phone becomes anything more than them getting the most out of you they can whilst keeping you as happy as possible. OK, I've added a note in my big thread about BoA about how they decide who are worthy, but Il give you a quick rundown again. In a nutshell, the best customers to BoA are those who have a balance, make payments over the minimum on time every month, but never clear the balance, and continue to use the card. Those kinds of customers are both profitable and reliable, which is what BoA loves. A customer who runs up a balance, but clears it every month in full, is NOT a good customer, in BoA eyes as they are not making any profit from them. Obviously the worst are people who run up balances and don't pay, because whilst they are in a position to make BoA a profit, they're not paying reliably, so BoA aren't actually getting much money back. There are also a mix of 'average' customers, some who only use the card sparingly, but when they do, they clear the balance over time. Some who always pay, but only the minimum and not always on time, and a bunch of other combinations of being mildly profitable and mildly reliable. The favoured customers get charges back with ease. If the charges are huge amounts, they need to be authorized by a manager, a grunt can only agree to refund £100 without consult, but I've never known the refunds ot be refused as BoA likes to kiss the asses of its 'favoured' customers. Average customers can get some money back, up to about £50 before needing manager authorization. usually you will be negotiated with and get about 1/2 of the charges back or something similar, perhaps you could get interest refunded but charges remain or vice versa. 'Bad' customers won't be given anything. Well actually they can have any interest back, up to £5, but after that, nothing. And they on;y get that because anything under £5 'Is not worth quibbling about'. Remember, this is just what you can manage over the phone. After that, if your not satisfied, the paper express cans till get you more. I always recommend the phone again because you can get some charges back quickly just by being on the phone for a few minutes. And its good to get something back quickly, then in the mean time you can work on getting the rest by whatever methods you see fit.

Actually they do. At least, they do now. The FSA fully supports BoA because BoA stringently follows its regulations. In the last year a lot of the standards and practices of MBNA have changed to those set out by BoA. and trust me when I tell you that MBNA and BoA work very differently. Of course they are still subject to same laws, but BoA works within regulations set out by bodies such as the FSA. Believe me I've been there to see first hand. FSA support any bank that complies strictly to ther governance, but they are also quick to come down hard if any bank proves to be acting against FSA regulations. This is why BoA are tough, because FSA would have to admit fault in themselves also. The fact that there iS fault in the FSA does not stop them from supporting any bank that works within their regulations. This is not to say that hammering back for all charges etc is not the right course. Believe me, it still is. Just anybody doing it now will find the process may be longer and more difficult. Simply put, in the BoA point of view, they are compliant with all banking regulations, so if there is any dispute, they are not at fault, it is the regulatory bodies as it must be the regulations which are incorrect. Again, let me stress, I'm just playing devils advocate and bringing you the BoA perspective. I don't necessarily agree.

OK a quick by the by. AMEX is a type of card, the liscence out their name and function to credit card companies. Any issues with the card MUST be taken up with the issuer, in this case MBNA BoA. OK, BoA are not a bad company to deal with, they are very very good, they have to be, they crave good rapport and opinion from customers. the collections team are very patient and WILL listen. If you are happy to speak to them abotu your concerns, feel free to cal them in your own time and present your case, you can still return to mail correspondance only if you need to. However, BoA prefer to settle things over the phone because they can deal with questions and concerns as they arise rather then waiting for correspondances. My advice for dealing the MBNA BoA has always been the same, just call them yourself first and have your say, tell them what you expect and find a compromise that suits you best. Sometimes compromise is not an option and you have to try for everything, still feel free to do this over the phone. nothing is stopping you from reverting to mail only in the future BoA will bend over backwards to assist customers they deem worthy, others they deal with with equanimity becaus ethey don't want bad rep and they don't want to lose money or custom. So just try them on the phone, but don't let them goad you or corner you into tsomething you are not happy with. Maintain focus on what you want, f they won't listen to reason, then you can always do it the otehr way.

NICE! Kudos for you. MBNA BoA can be tough as hell to get anything from as they are backed strongly by the FSA and OFCOM due to their high level of compliance. (believe it or not). Great job.

Yes, you are likely time. MBNA only hold these details for up to 6 years rolling. They always have 6 years worth, anything after 6 years is lost as they remove it from files/sytems. by the by, Abbey probably won't hold these details, MBNA would have as the Abbey credit card accounts ere held by and dealt with by MBNA at the times you are looking for the information for. Il ammend that, Abbey MIGHT have them, but they shouldn't, and MBNA MIGHT still have the records but its is highly unlikely as they only keep records of accounts for up to 6 years. It all comes down to how they dispose of the records over 6 years old. If Abbey want them kept they may be held by Abbey, but 99% probability that MBNA wont have them. I would suggest calling MBNA and asking. The grunts on the phone wont know, but for situations like this a manager will tell them how to find out and you will get a definite answer within due course.

Be aware, all they are doing is back dating previous cahrges to the current standard fee of £12 per item, they're not really doing anything for your beenfit or gong out of their way to make 'goodwill gestures'.

Thats incorrect. Prior to the Santander takeover, MBNA BoA issued ALL Abbey cards, but uder the Abbey design, with Abbey name on them. However, the accounts were still held by and run by MBNA BoA. After the Santander takeover Santander reaqured the rights to issue Abbey Credit cards in house, however MBNA BoA maintained the files of current customers. What is happening here is that your current card is expiring and as the account is no longer an 'Abbey' account, the card and account have transfered to official 'MBNA'. Everything remains the same, its just that as MBNA don't deal with Abbey anymore, they can't print cards in Abbey name. All ex ABbey accounts convert to MBNA when they come up for expiration.

I don't know for sure if you can try to claim back charges wth court proceedings in operation, but I don't think so. Getting charges back form BoA is very tough because they stringently follow the FSA regulations, so to go up against BoA is to also challenge FSA. Getting charges back form BoA depends entirely on what kind of customer you were to them. If you were alsways missing payments or making them late, then you are considered bad and they won't oblige you to give charges back, and they tend to shrug off letters saying that charges are unlawful because they are within FSA regulation guidelines. Others here might have ways to beat this, I don't know, but BoA are tough to crack, this much I know.

First up, its a credit card company, they'rre non secured so you can't have bailiffs etc knocking on your doors. 2nd, you are overseas, they have no jurisdiction over you, so feel free to block their calls and not pay them again. All they will do is fluster and write it off as bad debt. It May be sold on to a DCA, but with a dca you have no prior relationship with them and can deal with them fresh, telling them that this is all you can afford. What you have to remember is, BoA hear this kind of thing regularly, so its in their best interests to make you sweat to try and get more out of you, but if you can't afford any more, then they will have to take it. I've never known them to stubbornly refuse something like this, so atm I would suggest they are atalling you hoping to make you sweat and come up with more cash for them. IF you wish, try calling them agai in a few days and speak to a different collections agent with your issues and try and get it resolved, if this doesn't work get them to either put you through to a manager or arrange for the manager to call you back. Any and all agreements made with the Collections team have to be OK'd by the team manager before they can be set in motion. If he/she is saying no, they will have their own reasons, but they won't refuse you if you can't physically take any more. Just make sure that if/when they agree to your new repayments, that they send you out a letter confirming everything you have discussed and agreed upon.

Im not going to dispute any point with you, as I don't actually disagree. Im just presenting information as it seen form the BoA side of things. This is how the company thinks, this is how they work. Indeed, they are just as bound to the laws as anyone else, however, here is the crux with BoA: BoA wants 1 thing, to be globally respected and 'the most admired company' in the world (banking company I should point out) and to that end, whilst they WILL call and hound people, when you set up an agreement with them, they honour it. Mistakes DO happen, believe me I've been on the end of the rants when someone in collections hasn't done something, or did something wrong, but the staff always work to rectify the problems as best they can. Problems with BoA systems is that if Grunt A says he will do XYZ for you on date 123, only he knows about it, as the information is stored only with him. If he forgets, is off sick or any number of reasons for things not to happen, there is not a record of what he has done until he gets back in to work or remembers about it. Unfortunately neither the grunts nor the systems are infallible. But you are certainly correct in one thing, if you set up an agreement with them, make sure it is sent to you in writing confirmed. If it is in place, if you honour your end of the deal, BoA honour theirs, and if you have further problems, call them they WILL listen and help. For all I dislike about BoA I can't fault them in that they do their best to help people in financial trouble. Of course people do have bad dealings with them, that always happens, but I've seen the other side, been on the line when someone cries because you have helped ease their financial strain, when someone calls up just to say thank you, I had my share of letters written in to the company praising my conduct on the phone, and I've seen people with dozens of these from customers who were delighted with the assistance. Im not here to try and promot BoA, believe me, I don't work there anymore and I left because I disagreed with some of their practices, Im just playing devlis advocate and presenting the BoA side of things so people know what they are dealing with. But in some areas, they are genuine, and their desire to help people with problems is genuine. Just make sure you get everything in writing just in case somebody screws up. Often it can be mixed messages between bank and customer, or an agent screw up that can cause issues. Problem is, there is usually no way to track if it is an Agent screw up. With regards to charges, no it IS down to BoA. the FSA give banks guidelines of what to charge and why, and BoA follow them stringently. If a customer doesn't agree with the charges, they are free to call the Ombudsman, but I have to be honest, in my time there, I never ever heard of BoA being found in the wrong over account charges because they openly tell you what they charge them on and why. BoA have a method of 'ranking' customers for lack of a better term, and the best customers can get charges back with a single phone call because that helps keep them as customers. If people have disputes with charges n general, then it is the fsa first must be challenged as they are the regulatory body and they have said 'Charges on accounts must be X amount and for reasons 123'. FSA say its fine, so its down to them to be wrong. if FSA said 'charges are illegal, banks wouldn't apply them. If penalty charges are illegal, then the fault comes from FSA for saying that it is fine. The likelihood of people winning out with regards to challenges over fees is slim to none as it would shatter the foundation of the industry, whether they are unlawful or not. OK to Angels question, I honestly can't say for sure it's not a side of the business I ever dealt with, but for my 2 cents on the matter, I dont think they do. The reason being is that BoA has tens of millions of customers and not all of thrm apply in writing/ Plus the sheer number of documents that would be around if every person had fully written original agreements would overwhelm. They MIGHT have them, but its doubtfull. I've never known one to be sent out or produced for any other reason.