Hi everyone. I've spent most of my 'financial' life self employed. I've been advised that this makes me a prime candidate for PPI mis-selling because PPI is sold as your 'protection' in the event that you are off work or lose your job, and never applied to self-employed people. Therefore I've been told that any PPI sold to me under an agreement while I was running my own business for work was a mis-sold policy. The problem is this: potentially I've had numerous loan, credit card or hire purchase agreements in the past 16 years. All were ultimately paid in full, some of them were eventually 'settled' (in full) by repayment arrangement when one of my ventures collapsed leaving me out of work or in financial distress for a while. But in all cases all my paperwork (historical and current) was stored in my last commercial business premises which were ultimately flooded and reduced to a sewage tainted mass of paper mache which environmental health insisted was destroyed. I never bothered replacing the historical loan records because they were paid in full and done with, and I haven't taken out loans or HP agreements of any kind for at least six years. How do I find out what accounts I had with various institutions and whether they had PPI sold on them? I know I've had various computers and equipments from Currys/PC World on HP over the years and I seem to recall them voraciously selling PPI as the cure-all to every future problem of repayment regardless of my employment. On some occasions I can remember them even telling me that I was a 'manager' in my business rather than the owner of my business because it would make the computer-processed credit agreement more likely to go through without referral. I know I've had business with Providian, Barclays, American Express, HFC Bank, GE Capital Finance, Time Retail Finance and others... How do I find out, who do I chase, what happens if those businesses have disappeared since then, usually absorbed by a bigger finance company? I appreciate the tips. Thanks. BP

Well, that's the rather less clear issue... To the best of my knowledge I've not paid anything on it since August 2005, once I became convinced it was being serviced in the consolidation. I can't guarantee it, but I'm pretty certain. The reason for my certainty is that when I DID make payments on it, prior to that, it was always out of the business bank account... But the Business Bank account was effectively shut down in August 2005 and the only payments I made to that bank at all for over two years after that were the agreed repayments on the 'recovery' amount. I dealt almost exclusively in cash during that time due to my new found pathological hatred of banks. And I'm pretty certain that my attitude would have been 'screw the bank, let them go whistle' so I wouldn't have been easily lured into telephone calls requesting repayment money and the like, not to mention the fact that I have absolutely no trace of communications with the bank on the subject of that card since August 2005 when my liabilities with them - bank accounts, overdrafts, loans (and, I thought, credit card) - were consolidated for recovery. BUT it is arguable that if the bank HAS done a sleight of hand, they could count the last monthly payment on the consolidated debt as being 'toward' the CC in part. They'd make it murkier by doing so, because it would prove that the debt should have been part of the settlement. They could also pull out letters of mine to the bank on the subject of my consolidated debts in which I specifically make reference to the existence of the card debt, which exist because I believed the debt was being dealt with in the recovery, but again to use that as proof would also be to concede that the recovery team were indeed 'dealing' on the subject of that debt. But from what I hear of MacKenzieCrooks and indeed Arrow, they're liable to just whack a mysterious nominal cash payment on to the account and claim it was from me anyway, just to keep the process rolling... So do I just keep ignoring them. I'd hate to break my new five year habit of treating DCA's and banks with the contempt they deserve, but I also want to be sure of my 'legal' or statutory 'legs' on which I'm trying to stand.

Hi. OC OP here... Thanks for your input BB... HS you are completely right. The issue pertains to a business CC, arranged by the business manager at the bank as a courtesy to business cash flow, which will have been set up 2001ish. It was defaulted at about the same time as the bank fell out with me when they started pulling rugs out from under me in 2004 to early 2005. In Summer 2005 I was presented with the insanely hefty 'settlement' demand for what I was led to believe was ALL the interest the bank had in me in respect of my various forms of credit account with them, from business loan to overdrafts to credit cards. To reiterate, after ombudsman investigation and years of wrangling this was converted to an eventual five figure settlement paid late summer 2010. During these years I heard nothing from the bank to indicate that there was any debt which was being dealt with autonomously from the 'settlement' dispute. Nor did I hear anything about this CC debt in the months from Summer 2010 to December 2010 when the bank say they sold the debt. Nor did I hear anything from the bank when they sold the debt, I found out three months later in March 2011 when they wrote to me notifying me of reassignment. On enquiry to the bank they acknowledged receipt of the settlement, denied that the CC debt would ever have been consolidated in the recovery action against me, couldn't explain why I'd heard nothing for the duration of that process if it were not for the fact that someone at the bank thought that it WAS included, and passed the buck to the compost heaps that are chasing me now. You, sir, get full marks for successfully deciphering my panic-stricken ramblings.

The 'owning' DCA is Arrow. The 'collecting' DCA is MacKenzie's Crooks. Unfortunately it is above £750. About three times that. I should point out that the following 'facilities' were included in the 'consolidation'... A secured business loan for 30K. An overdrawn balance on a Business Bank Account. An overdrawn balance on a Premium Personal Account (the balance arising exclusively from extortionate bank charges for unused facilities). So the 'consolidation' wasn't just a single type of account. There were loans, overdrafts, bank charges in there. So why wouldn't I believe that the business credit card, defaulted at the same time by the action of the same bank staff who defaulted the other accounts, be included, especially when there was no further communication on that account beyond the discussion of consolidation? This debt is basically 9-10 years old, the defaults took place between 5 and 6 years ago. The consolidated settlement was made seven and a half months ago. And yes, they've suddenly dug up this new debt. They say they sold it in December '10, but they didn't notify me that it had been sold until March '11, and the DCA's didn't start claiming the debt until March. The consolidation, apparently, has paid everything except this credit card. It has paid overdrafts on bank accounts, and a business loan, and bank charges, and the bank mysteriously negated the Premium Personal Account which was overdrawn due to their charges (arising from them mis-selling as 'free' and 'no risk' a premium bank account which was only free for 12 months.)

Hmmm. A bit shorter. Marks for effort?

Sorry, there's no simple way of putting it down... I'll try again... I had a bunch of debt all with the same bank. I was led to believe over the past 6 years that this debt was consolidated into one amount and that since the principal debt was a secured debt, it was all being levied against the security. Lots of murk in the bank's practices were uncovered, I was extorted for interest that I had been assured I wouldn't be charged, the bank lied a lot and 'lost' documentation. It went to the Ombudsman. The Ombudsman would have liked to have been more helpful, and suggested that there was wider scope for complaint, but ultimately had to side with the bank and prompted the process of reaching a settlement after an appalling amount of grief and stress. A five figure settlement was made. Paid five years to the month that the debt was 'consolidated' and sent for recovery. We were verbally assured that was the last of my dealings with the bank in question, with no further issues to pull out in the future, and my credit file would be amended to 'satisfied' in regard to their debt. No communications were received from the bank during the best part of six years which indicated that there were individual debts which were not consolidated into the 'recovery' amount. Six months after making the settlement the bank sells a business credit card debt in my name to a DCA and writes to me to say so. Then the DCA's DCA starts to hassle for payment. Contact with the bank produces the bank's claim that the consolidated amount never included the credit card debt and that they have no explanation for why I've had no contact on it for the best part of 6 years, but assures me that 'somewhere' the paperwork exists to show that they've been writing to me in the meanwhile, even though they haven't. I can't pay any more than I have already. I also don't see why I should. Unless advised otherwise I plan to ignore the DCA and their DCA. Its my parents they're hassling to find out where I am. And they're as insistent as I am that no more pennies will be paid in the name of this bank. Phone calls. Letters. They're all coming in. The more serious threats will come soon. What do I do? What's the process? Is this suddenly springing to life because it is almost SB'd - from the time that the card was 'defaulted' to the present is almost exactly 6 years give or take a month or so? If this is legitimate, why didn't I hear from the bank while I was hammering through disputes, and then ultimately ombudsman cases and settlements on consolidated debts for six years with them? Can it even BE SB'd if in times past my account has been used to pay the monthly payments, or I've made reparitive payments on the account prior to the default? Is that any better?

Yep, I'll try. Had business accounts, bank accounts and business credit card with Royal Bank of Shystos. Afore mentioned RBS, at the beginning of the recession, played monkey games with me over an erroneous bank account which has since been voided, but the whole process caused all my accounts with them to spiral. The end result was that they turned up knocking on the door of my surety demanding full and final repayment of a 'consolidated' volume of debt all of which they were lumping into the 'secured' category. Upon enquiry that this represented every piece of debt I had with them we were told 'yes.' Basically, I was led to believe that all my credit with them, negative balances, overdrafts, the lot, were rolled up in one giant ball and called in for collection. That was 2005. Initially we came to an agreement with an agent at RBS to make repayments - with no additional interest added, we were told - and did so for the best part of two years until we received the first notification in two years that so much interest had been added that in actual fact our two years of payments had left us even deeper in debt than we were to begin. So we went to the Ombudsman, while we continued to pay increased monthly payments while RBS spent over two years of investigation time lying, 'losing' documents, denying conversations, letters, even the name of the agent we dealt with, before eventually having to admit that everything we were arguing was, in fact, plausible - but not the 'interpretation' that they'd like to give it all. Ultimately the ombudsman noted that there were serious issues in RBS's presentation of facts, and that the conclusion was indeed 'open to interpretation' and that we were led to believe what we were led to believe, but that because of contractual conditions and the limitations in the scope of any one Ombudsman enquiry, the Ombudsman had to side with the bank's interpretation, and ultimately paved the way for forcing RBS into a 'settlement' position. Last summer RBS settled for a five figure sum not dramatically different from the sum they were demanding anyway. Prior to payment we queried that this was the conclusion of all my debt with RBS and that once paid there would be no further contact from RBS and that my credit record in regard to themselves would be marked as 'satisfied'. This was confirmed by telephone. I'm investigating whether we have anything resembling that in writing. No communications had been received from RBS during the entire time of this process to indicate that we were dealing with anything other than completely consolidated debt. No communications were received with regard the business credit card. But a couple of weeks back we received an RBS headed letter, stating no amounts, simply notifying us that the credit card debt had been sold to Arrow Gullible and that their agents, Mackintoshed Hawks were acting on it. We immediately called RBS and challenged them to look at our settlement and confirm it was full and final, they did, and added that their business with us was done. We then raised the sudden emergence of this credit card debt and they simply said 'oh yes... we would never have dealt with credit card debt, just business loans.' We challenged them as to why bank accounts and overdrafts were also their department, having consolidated those too, but not a business credit card supplied to the account holder, and of course those are 'their department' as well, but not credit cards, they say. We asked why nothing had been heard from them on the credit card for the same duration of time as we had been dealing with 'consolidated' debts with them. No explanation. Why had we heard nothing on the credit card by way of requesting a settlement with RBS before it was sold to a DCA. No explanation, only the assurance that 'we're sure there will have been letters, but we don't have immediate access to them on the system.' (sounds like a set-up in the making). So having heard nothing for best part 5 to 6 years, it sounds like this is nearly SB'd debt. And suddenly, having made a settlement with RBS, they turn up with another debt which they shuffle on to a DCA, but which we were left believing was included this last 5 years in the consolidation. Either they're pulling a fast one, or they're in such an administrative mess that they're trying to cover their mistakes. Either way, we're insistant we're not paying one more penny for an RBS debt. So, how do I deal with the Mackintoshed Hawks. I won't deal on the phone. And naturally I deny all debt until proven otherwise. But the pestering phone calls are back, not to mention the regular letters. What now?

Anyone?

Hi, I'll make this as anonymous as I can. I had the dubious pleasure of taking out a business loan a decade ago, with a certain Ridiculous Bank of Sphincters, now state owned of course. In setting up with them I was railroaded into the usual services - Royalties Gold personal account, business credit card, etc. In the run up to the recession, 2005, I began to be hassled by the Sphincters because I had 'declining turnover' and they began the slow process of blowing me out and raping me chronically for unwanted premium account charges, overdraft fees and the like... Long and short, they pulled the rug out from under me and erroneous charges, levied by them unlawfully, were used as the basis to pull my spending facilities and put me in default. Their insidious actions negated all my efforts to make reparation, and within 6 months they crushed me. I was advised after about 4 months that all my debts with them had been sent to collections for recovery. Long story short, I finally spoke to a sympathetic agent who assured me that all my debt with them was consolidated for recovery and I could agree affordable repayments. At the same time she initiated an investigation on the unexpected charges on the unwanted 'gold' account - the basis of the bank defaulting me - and amazingly the bank cancelled them all (£1300) and made me sign an indemnity against future complaints based on that account. I was told the interest was frozen on the recovery amount, calculated for the full 10 year term of the loan, so the debt would not rise. There was the usual administrative ineptness setting this arrangement up, but eventually it got underway. For about two years. Then, as victims of the Sphincters will know, the real shenanigans began. Arbitrary defaultings, and they went straight after the home owned by my surety on the loan, announcing That after two years of payments at around £300 per month, I was now more in debt than I was when I started. We pushed for an Ombudsman investigation because the Sphincters were denying every detail of the arrangements we had, including the existence of the recovery agent I dealt with, and a host of other details including documentary evidence which disproved their claims. Basically they lied, dodged, destroyed records, obstructed and everything you'd expect. Anyway, after three horrific years, last summer The Sphincters agreed a settlement. The ombudsman, of course, sided with the bank although they made note that the case was murky and no evidence proved that my understanding of our arrangements was incorrect or false, that the Banks position was dubious, but they were obliged to take their word for it as the legal owners of secured debt. Nonetheless the Sphincters were asked straight to confirm that this was the settlement of all debt in my name, all consolidated, all settled and my credit record amended to note settlement. This week the Sphincters wrote me to say that a credit card account (no account no and no amount listed) was assigned to be sold in Dec 2010 to Arrow Gullible, represented by a DCA with a name similar to the more appropriately named actor MacKenzie Crook. They kindly gave me the DCA's address and phone no, on Sphincter letterheaded paper and told me to deal with them in future... In future? I've had no dealings with the sphincters on this alleged 'card debt' in the past... It was a business mastercard and was defaulted with my accounts and loans, and I never heard another word about that account from the defaulting of my 'consolidated debt' in July 2005 up to this week. So we called the Sphincters to say 'we just paid you tens of grands to clear all debts, WTF is this?' And they said, predictably, 'oh, we only deal with business loans and bank accounts, we don't deal with credit card debts... This amount was never consolidated by us (NitWaste/Sphincters Recovery in Telford) because we wouldn't have even known about it. You need to deal with the Mackintoshed Crooks, the agents for Arrow Gullible who bought your account...' We're livid. Why did we receive no communication on that account to indicate that it was to be dealt with autonomously with Sphincters? Why no default notices, no letters appealing for money? Why did it not show up at the Sphincters when we demanded that they confirm that all their dealings with me were considered satisfied and closed. Why did it take 3 months for Sphincters to write me to say the debt was sold 3 months earlier? Why did Sphincters write me on a debt that was no longer theirs, having been sold 3 months before? This smells to me. Top and bottom, we're not paying another penny. Sphincters got their settlement. If they missed an account off their list, tough. So now the 17 phone calls per day from the Macintoshed Crooks have started. They're being ignored. I don't deal with DCA's. It's against my religion to financially support the immoral practices of paying a pittance for someone else's misfortune and difficulty so that you can badger and terrorise them into paying you a more than 900% profit. So what should I expect from these wrigglers? What can I do? What procedure should I follow? I appreciate your advice and counsel. I plunged back to depression and despair for two days when I got the letter, having thought I was finally free of them. Now I'm just mad, have nothing to lose, and am feeling playful. Cheers, The Phoenix Going Round The Roundabout Again...

Fred, I just wanted to say this to you... Since I've had all the same frustrations and worries, and I know what it can do to your health and your personal wellbeing, I have to say that laughter is the best medicine... And on that subject I have to tell you that I have enjoyed every minute of reading this thread today... I have not laughed this hard in years. By page six I was crying and fighting for breath. Just the thought - the simple mental picture - of the DCA operative placing a call, and somewhere in their own office the phone starts ringing while they sit there with a dull look on their face was priceless. I need to get that service... My phone solution was to pay for a SkypeIn number for two years to get all of them on board, and then cancel the subscription. During the two years the number was 'connected' to a Skype account that never got used, but by my last check had racked up a maxxed out voicemail box. I must confess that I am somewhat disturbed at the perverse amount of pleasure that I derive, these days, from seeing ordinary Joes (or Freds) put it to these cretinous agents of the most unarguably corrupt and vile enterprises on the planet, especially when they do it with such glorious - and typically british - sarcasm and contempt. My own emotional liberation, even though the situations are still ongoing in some cases (come on, statute of limitations), came when I finally realised that they can't do anything to me, and the power they have over me is only the power that I allowed them to have. When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose. As soon as I hit that realisation, I knew that I could start to have fun. I finally discovered my own preferred way of dealing with them in order to run them round in circles was to prepare a single stock letter which contained multiple choice options (delete as applicable). The first option asked them to prove that I had engaged them in any business, the second was the text for a CCA, the third for an SAR, the fourth (my infamous option (d) ) contained an invite to go forth and multiply, while the fifth had an 'other' option where I could fill in a custom request. At the top I had a set of check boxes for 'CC'd to' which included the FSA, the FSO, Trading Standards, My Solicitor and at the bottom were check boxes for additional requests which included the cease and desist telephone order. When I received a communique I'd simply fill out the details in block capitals, sans signature, and either check the boxes or delete as applicable so that not only could they see that I was prepared for all eventualities, but could also enjoy the anticipation of knowing what the next letter would say as the situation progressed. I can say that I've only ever had one single DCA who managed to escalate to option (d). The rest usually pass it on to another DCA while a few more months go by. Most don't proceed past option (a). Well. They send me stock letters. So I thought I'd return the favour. Anyway, Bless you for making a poor man laugh. BP

In 2001 I went to the whores of Satan, RBS, for a business loan. My parents stood their house as security for the loan. RBS eagerly supplied me bank accounts, loan, overdraft, credit card and so on. So. Five years later RBS notice my turnover falling, as the economy begins to suffer, and starts throwing a strop. As they are currently also doing to friends of mine, they pull the plug. They shut down bank accounts, cancel credit cards, and plunge my business into freefall, unable to buy stock, unable to operate. Forced to deal in cash I discuss the matter with one of their robots and I tell them to keep taking my business loan (which had never defaulted) payment out of the account by standing order, which I will pay into the account every month faithfully. And I did. And heard nothing from them for four months. Then I got the letter, that they were demanding all the money, not from me, from my parents. They wanted to execute the security on the house. So I rang them, in the midst of my nervous breakdown. And I spoke to a very helpful young woman at RBS/NatWest recovery who told me that the bank had not been taking the loan payments and used it as a default against me. She also said it was VERY unusual for the bank to send such a large account to recovery so quickly, that usually it was triggered by much longer, more serious defaults. But, she said, it was to my advantage that the loan had gone to recovery, because it meant that the loan agreement was torn up and I could have a repayment arrangement with the recovery department and that this was better, because the amount being demanded was the full amount calculated for the term of the loan with interest, and thus further interest would be frozen as long as I made my payments, and she negotiated a lower repayment. And thus, after a comedy of RBS administrative errors, I started to pay the recovery sum, five years into my ten year loan. Over a year passed, and then RBS got stroppy again, and notified my parents that they were in default again. See, the £270 per month being paid back was less than the £300+ per month that they were adding on in interest... yeah... that's what we thought too. So that's when the **** hit the fan. We raised the repayment amount to just above their 'minimum' and took the matter to the FOS. RBS's attitude was 'take it to the FOS then... they'll find in our favour and you'll be wasting your time.' RBS denied for two years that the lady I spoke to at NatWest even existed. They denied that her department dealt with the matter. Then finally the paperwork proved them liars, so they admitted it but denied that she'd entered an arrangement with me, and couldn't explain how I knew so much about their internal procedures and the processes, or how I'd managed to write letters to them in response to her comments, or had started paying sums of money off my own back when, according to them, I was trying to do a bunk on paying them. After these abject denials, and being called a liar, the contact with the agent in question was admitted but we were told she was no longer in that department and could not speak to us. We insisted. Eventually we were told that no transcripts exist for the gravitous conversation that we had, only her notes on the system. We asked to see the notes. We were told we couldn't. We asked to speak to the lady in question, and were told we couldn't. We insisted. We were told that the notes on the system make no mention of any arrangement at all, and that the bank had spoken to the lady in question and she couldn't remember anything special about dealing with me. We have been repeatedly told that the bank consolidating all outstanding debts, claiming the balance in full, passing it to recovery and recovery freezing interest in order to secure full payment over terms is not a particularly unusual occurrance, and the bank agreed that the lady in question had a remit to do so, they just argue that she ddn't do so (and thus that I am a liar). Immediately prior to the FSA case commencing, we were put in touch with a resolution manager for RBS, a Mr Whitaker. He also spoke quite sympathetically and authoritatively, said that 'resolutions' was what he did. He opened the discussion on how much we could raise to make a settlement with the bank, who were claiming £21k outstanding. Now, bear in mind that this £21k was discussed over two years ago. In that time I've personally paid RBS £3720 per year, for a minimum of £7440 payment between then and now. Prior to that I paid them monthly for at least five years, totalling more than £21k in spite of a difficulties, and every penny was paid in a timely manner. The loan agreement was for £30k over 10 years and it was my understanding that after 10 years, including their interest, £47k would have been repaid. After the account was shut down and defaulted by the stroppy little 'relationship manager' at RBS I paid around another £6.5k over two years before ever we got to discussing resolutions and FSA cases. All told, then, RBS had more than £21k plus £6.5k up to two years ago (and considering that the loan was taken out in 2001, that means that the loan term at the time of the defaulting by RBS was just five years, plus two years to the discussion of a settlement, meaning that RBS were demanding £21k on top of the more than £27k they had already received (£48k total) with at least three years left to run on the original loan term. So... if you're still following... the 'resolution' expert discussed this issue with my dad. Once the loan was defaulted RBS moved like lightening to wash their hands of me, and to go straight after the security in my parents house... they've not been interested in talking about financial resolutions, they have at all stages suggested mortgages, and threatened to go to court to have the charge on the house executed etc. They have a one track mind and an almost vampiric thirst to drink the blood out of my parents property. It is, actually, almost embarrassingly undignified to watch them so voraciously stalk two retired pensioners who are living on state pension, as my parents are now. RBS won't even talk to me. They have no 'issues' with me, they say. Their issues are with my parents over the security on the loan. So the resolution expert hears my dad very articulately explain his moral and economic issues with the figures as they stand at the time, and the amount RBS stands to make over a default that they themselves created and virtual money that they have charged as a result. And funnily enough, the resolution manager kind of agrees, and functions as a sympathetic android. He even goes as far as to suggest that we could come to a settlement, and that he might think it appropriate to go to the senior decision makers and propose that we would raise £16k if they wrote off the rest of the £21k they claim. We agree in principle. Two days later he calls us back, sounding like a changed man, and very solemnly tells us that the senior people will only settle for about a £500 discount and 'won't charge interest this month' as a bonus. He advises us that this is the final word on the issue and he is no longer at liberty to discuss resolving the matter with us if we turn down their demand. We advise that we're going to the OFT, and he more or less says 'go ahead... they'll find in our favour' which at the time we believe (naively) is preposterously arrogant and a chance worth taking. So, anyway, after two years, round upon round of escalation and fact gathering, discussion and decision, followed by appeal and further escalation, we've finally had the Ombudsman's findings and been told not to come back again. They state, in writing, that my account is compelling, and that the notes held by RBS don't say that their agent DID make an arrangement with me, but they don't say that she didn't either, and that there is room for interpretation, but that the FOS are bound to accept the bank's account of what their 'normal practice' looks like. I suppose the moral of the story is to get everything in writing and leave nothing to phone conversations. This is where the banks screw you... they conveniently disregard the notes on the system, or actively encourage their staff not to make anything specific in their notes unless it is in the bank's favour. At the finale of the Ombudsman report, the FOS admonished RBS to deal with us fairly, generously, and sympathetically. Within two days we had a letter, not from RBS but from their solicitors advising us that they were pursuing a court hearing for the execution of the charge on the house. So we spoke to the FOS again, who confirmed that this action was not in the spirit of fair and sympathetic dealing, and would be speaking to RBS about it. RBS responded by having their solicitors confirm that they had instructed the court to proceed with a court hearing to execute the charge on the house. So we spoke to the FOS again, and again they stated that this was not how the bank were instructed to respond and that they would speak to RBS again. RBS responded by writing to us to tell us they felt justified in instructing their solicitors and that we could wait for the court hearing date. They are now claiming £18.5k. You do the math... they were claiming £21k two years ago, I've paid more than £7.5k since then, and the debt has gone down £3k in two years, and there's still a year left to run on the original loan term. (That will mean that they've had more than £27.5k plus more than £7.5k since the FOS action was initiated (in excess of £35k) plus they still want another £18.5k which means that they're demanding, a year ahead of the full loan term, not only the full £47k that they signed me up to over the 10 year term, but also we estimate an extra £10k all said and done, and a year ahead of schedule). Oh... and they're still charging interest. The FOS once again stated that it was 'unusual' for a period of due process to not be engaged to discuss solutions, and claimed to have instructed RBS to pursue such a course. Then the court hearing papers arrived. So my dad made another attempt to contact RBS, and by this time he's furious and indignant. And just as I did once upon a time, he gets a sympathetic lady whose sole purpose at RBS is to help settle disputes. And she discusses, and she asks what we can pay, and he explains he is a pensioner and doesn't have much except his own home, bought and paid for and hard-earned, and he offers £12k. She jokes with him a while about how on earth pensioners can squeeze more money than that out of their coffers, and how even his former mortgage company won't even give him a mortgage or loan on the house to pay RBS off, because he's retired and sans income. And she very optimistically states that she'll send a report to her bosses and propose the £12k, and anticipating a resolution she cancels the court action and instructs the RBS solicitors to stand down. Ten days pass, and my dad just got a letter to say that £12k isn't good enough, RBS want £18.5k and they've added another £140 or thereabouts for the interest accrued while all the discussion has been going on. Have you ever come across a more mercenary, soulless bunch of rat-bastards? And the FOS have basically said the same as they've said to others... they don't devise figures, the bank tell them what figures are reasonable and what they're prepared to accept, and then thats the final word. The FOS are a token trophy of so-called consumer protection, but the reality is that they are the 'agency' which masquerades as the democratic response to banking, while in actual fact they just give the banks the right to do what they want, how they want. Does anyone have any suggestions on what we do next?

Anyone?

Hi there, To cut a long story short, I have an account with MBNA which is the remnant of a loan I took out with them. When I got into debt crisis when my business went under, I defaulted on payments and ended up discussing with MBNA the payment of a lower amount monthly for the recovery of the debt, it having been passed through to their 'collections' department. I've been paying this for over three years, at £80 per month, and have never received a statement from them for the amounts being paid against the amount outstanding. I have a recollection that I owed them around two grand at the time, and have constantly debated with myself whether I should just have the person who pays the direct debit from their account on my behalf (I pay them cash) cancel the debit to force MBNA to get back in touch with me. Having had no correspondence from them on this matter in recent years, I've lost track of the account numbers, etc. Oddly enough, today, I got a letter from MBNA which simply stated that my 'reduced payment plan' is due for review and I can contact them if my situation has improved in order to pay more and pay it off faster. This rang two warning bells. First, that they're not writing to me to say 'you now owe us nearly nothing, you only have 'x' number of months to go. Second, that they've called the 'arrangement' a 'reduced payment plan.' Now, call me stupid, but when I make an arrangement with a bank because I'm in default on what I owe, and have run out of money, and I say 'I'll pay £80 per month to clear the debt off' I well imagine that what we're talking about is the cumulative total that is being sent for 'recovery' by the bank, including the interest for the full term of the loan and any charges for defaulted payments, and that when I say '£80 per month', that my £80 per month comes off the full balance and keeps doing so until I've paid. I've realised in the last few years of various debt problems that to a bank these arrangements are sold, on the phone, as just that kind of a solution, which gives you the impression of light at the end of the tunnel, a finite debt which will end up paid... While in the background, the bank sets the arrangement up as a 'reduced payment arrangement' rather than a 'recovery agreement', in order to extend the period of the loan and start racking up interest, and that in many cases the 'interest' is so extended that your monthly payment barely covers the minimum monthly, and means that something like £80 paid every month only actually makes a £30 dent in the actual balance. Having had no figures from MBNA, I can't confirm this. But I want to. Ideally I want to force them into the position where everything I've paid on this arrangement is counted against the total at the time of the agreement, deducted, and interest accrued since then because of their deft switch from 'recovery' to 'reduced payment' arrangements is scrapped. I also don't know whether I was sold PPI on this account, but can say that I should never have been sold PPI on any of my past CC/loan accounts, because I was self employed, and as we all know, PPI is about as useful to self employed people as a durex to a ?. So what do I send to MBNA to begin the 'aggression'? How do I make them tell me what I've paid, what I owe, and what I signed up to with them? I presume its something I have to pay for, but if you can get me started that would be great.... Thx, BP

OK. Letter written. Postal order included. Recorded delivery. Let's see what happens. I'll be back within 15 days one way or another!

BRW, Thank you. I look forward to your input. PMHCFC, Thank you... that was very comforting, and I feel like I'm under good counsel now. So what is the procedure for the 'CCA' process? DX100UK, Thanks for giving it a shot. I DID give a very full picture deliberately, so that anyone trying to help could either identify with having had similar problems, or indeed to determine that their situation was nothing like mine and therefore the advice might not be the same. I didn't specifically list the debts and the creditors because I did state that while there were several, the one with Cabot/Scotcall was the first on the list, and however I dealt with this one would be how I dealt with the rest in turn. I wanted to get a solid starting place that I could come back to as things progress. Thanks anyway, though...