After all this time I finally sort of have an update - any thoughts as to what to do next? The update is that yesterday I received a letter from NCO Europe (who I think own RMA who were the ones who issued the SDA.) It had taken 2 weeks to get here (abroad) and said that they sent an acknowledgement to my CCA request back in November last year but a month later it was returned to them undelivered? (I don't understand that) That this letter acknowledged my subsequent breach of CCA request letter but that Amex had written to me back in December - again I have absolutely nothing. They then go on to say how seriously they take their responsibilities and that they have closed my account with them:D However, in the meantime I am being bombarded by phone calls by Newmans to my old workplace (they tell me that loads of messages are left for me) and I have just received a couple of letters dated toward the end of last year to my old UK address even though RMA had all my correct contact details. Should I contact AMEX, Newmans, everyone? At least the statutory demand seems to have fizzled out although I guess Newmans or AMex can do all that again. I did read a rather sad thread by a chap who recently got whacked by AMEX for a £20k CCJ after looking good on botched records and invalid default notices so Know this is by no means over but I haven't even seen my CCA details yet. Interestingly to me also, initially there was a question mark over whether my Business Gold Card would fall under the CCA scenario so I am very interested to see whether Amex's response was to say 'not relevent' or to send a copy. Any thoughts appreciated. Hestia10

Hi Shadow, many thanks for that - perhaps if I'd learned to count I wouldn't be in financial difficulty! Actually I thought the +2 of the 12 days + 2 days calculation was because of the weekends, now I understand! tvm. Will wait until Monday. H

Just an update - got some messages from Newmans to call back on my work phone - actually exwork but they let me know about them as still friendly - a lot of no number no message calls and a few from the same town as Newmans are based according to the code so assume them too but to my knowledge no post so that means neither Newman's or RMA ever responded to CCA request so will now do the dispute letter.

I have received a call from my old firm to say that Newmans have been leaving messages for me to ring them there - are they allowed to do that and can I stop it with a letter?

That's very interesting as there are a lot of similarities to how my flexaccount came about and is/was charged for. What happened after it was sold - have they stopped persuing?

Hi alangee - read your thread - thanks for the heads up - what happened to you after that then? I notice that was back in the summer? Cheers Hestia

Hi alangee, I'll have a read and get back - it was a gold card and after I had it for a bit they added a 'flex select' bit which was a credit facility for transactions over £200 so you didn't have to clear it each month. I'll read up your thread and get back to you. Thanks Hestia

Ok thanks shadow I can get that sorted today

Thanks for getting back to us shadow - yes I have sent the cca off but to RMA not Newmans and they have a couple more days plus some more as abroad I guess - it is a charge card come credit card so at best sounds like I can only fight some of it. Yes we do have a house which we have rented because it is negative equity and we couldn't afford the payments ourselves - we also have lots more creditors so they'd get diddly if they did bankrupt us but I guess they don't necessarily know that. We we're trying to keep going in the hope that both we will recover financially and the markey will pick up and the house be worth more later - if we lose it, or are made bankrupt I don't think we'd get a mortgage again. Hestia

Hi, Over the last couple of weeks I've got a text from Newmans saying to call urgently and another of blocked calls - once it came up with a number with a Leeds code and I think it was likely to be them. Anyhow, I've just received a load of post from the UK and in it were... 1) Another statutory demand from Westminsters but sent to our UK address dated the same day as the one they sent here and identical in everyway except for the address. 2) A letter from Newmans dated 15 days later so before the SD timescale (invalid because we are abroad) was up advising urgent attention required... and that they are acting on behalf of AMEX as previous attempts by another DCA failed! Does that mean that the SD's are dead? ANy thoughts please - how do I/can I check it out - can I ring the court or will that cause more probs as I didn't try to set it aside. Thanks Hestia

Hi Vicky, you're probably getting the hang of this from all the posts but for what it is worth we must have had 10+ of these types of cards from numerous companies and no one ever turned up. I read somewhere when I first went on the forum never to trust a DCA and initially thought that was a bit sweeping now I have had first hand experience I fully realise what low lifes they are. Occasionally you get one that sounds sympathetic on the phone but don't be fooled, they are probably just pumping you for info on your personal circumstances so they can stick you later so just don't call them like the others say. I know its hard because you'll be worrying about what they are doing and it will play on your mind but you will get some great advice from the other members on the forum, stick to your guns and fight the bu**ers all the way. Best of luck Hestia

Hi exchange we did find some rules regarding posting outide the UK but in the EU which may be of some interest to you although my big credit problem is from Amex who have issued me an SD which I didn't receive until it was over the limit to challenge so bits of this may be relevant to you and some bits not. I've only just begun learning all this so sorry if a bit vague but this is what I found. 1. On the Insolvency Service website there is a PDF download on Stautory Demands and section 5 talks about serving an SD abroad. It increases the time limit from 18 and 21 days to 22 and 28 days. It also went on to say that there were limitations on what could be done depending on which European country you are, it didn't provide any deeper detail than that but it got me thinking. I then found some stuff from the Ministry of Justice under the heading PRACTICE DIRECTION – INSOLVENCY PROCEEDINGS again because I have an SD but I think the principle must be applicable to you too and it says under serving an SD abroad When a statutory demand is to be served out of the jurisdiction, the time limits of 21 days and 18 days respectively referred to in the demand must be amended. For this purpose reference should be made to the table set out in the practice direction supplementing Section III of CPR Part 6. 10.6 A creditor should amend the statutory demand as follows: (1) For any reference to 18 days there must be substituted the appropriate number of days set out in the table plus 4 days, and (2) for any reference to 21 days there must be substituted the appropriate number of days in the table plus 7 days. Attention is drawn to the fact that in all forms of the statutory demand the figure 18 and the figure 21 occur in more than one place. So I then hunted for the table it mentioned and found a load of information regarding countries where they agree to process servers and ones where they don't etc and a table of days for correspondence to be replied to. PRACTICE DIRECTION – SERVICE OUT OF THE JURISDICTION - Ministry of Justice To be honest I got a bit boggled in the end but I'd bet that the bustard DCA's don't pay any attention to these postage rules - I haven't found anything on them anywhere else in the forum yet and certainly mine haven't. Good luck and will follow with interest how you get on if I find anything else which may be useful I'll ping it your way but please bear in mind I am very much a novice on this unlike some of the members who have been giving brilliant support. Cheers Hestia

Hi exchange, subbing to your thread as looks bang on to our situation good luck

Brilliant - well done, gives me hope!

Appreciate both your comments! Have sent of the CCA request today and will keep posting.

Thanks again Shadow, will digest all of this and get our heads straight - appreciate the PEP talk! Saying that - One more question and then will try and leave you alone/let you help someone else - do you think it would be a good idea to go back to the UK to try that out of time set aside? Thanks.

Hi, have you heard anymore? Best of luck for the hearing and please keep posting what happens.

Hi Starling, I'm subbing to your thread as it looks like we're going through the same grief but with Amex. Huge luck for the day.

Once again thanks Shadow. Can I ask, in your opinion and based on your experiences of all the people you've helped and knowledge of processes what RMA/AMEX are most likely to do? I've trawled the site for any sort of good news on fighting them off and can't say I've actually come across any threads where there is a successful conclusion if they decide to go for BC. Certainly plenty of stays of execution and postponements but when its all said and done they seem to get you more often than not. Suprising as it may possibly seem we didn't expect to walk away without paying our debts - This is a chargecard come creidt card anyhow so in practice I expect the best I can hope to achieve is to challenge the credit card bit and maybe get some costs down. If it goes to a bankruptcy hearing situation am I still able to offer some sort of payment plan? We have lots of other debts and by rights possibly we should go bankrupt at their expense but I guess we had hoped to buy time for property prices to sort themselves out, sell the house and make settlements then. If necessary can we still attempt an IVA if they make a Bankruptcy hearing. If they're going for the jugular we will fight them as hard as we can and give as much pain back as possible to them - without a job at the moment I've got the time! However it would still be good to have a strategy for what happens at bankruptcy hearings and I can't see what happens from any threads where bankruptcy is forced on someone rather than voluntary. Sadly, and I guess not too suprisingly the threads most similar to our situation just end when they go to court without describing what happened. And the SD threads are good but of course we don't have that option unless a judge agrees they didn't give me a proper opportunity to set aside in which case I guess they treat it as though I have just received the SD and have 18 days? Oh, I did see a comment in one case from 42man about the possibililty of a late set aside which I'll attempt to insert below - do you know anything about that? You can apply for a stat demand to be set aside outside the time limits....but it usually costs £30...however if you say in a witness statement accompanying your 6.4 and 6.5 that it was only served on you on the 27th then a judge will have to consider it....i'll see if I can dig around some BR cases where it could be an abuse of process to serve it without giving the proper timescale.... Wife sends you a big kiss for all the time you've spent on us - I owe you muchos beer!

Hi, could you let me know any info on setting aside outside the time limits - I've been sent an sd abroad - I'm staying with my mum for a bit - which only arrived on friday and gives me until sunday according to the date to apply for set aside - I've started a thread and have been receiving great help but this might change everything - any help/advice appreciated AMEX Westminsters Urgent Help Please - Statutory Demand

Hi Shadow, so basically I'm obviously stuffed on any chance of a Set Aside because they've made it impossible for me to get to the court before my 18 days are up. So from what I understand all I can do is wait to see whether they do persue me for bankruptcy. I get the impression that this lot are more likely to have a go than not from reading the other threads despite my bankruptcy not helping them. Do you know how I find out what they are going to do? If I get notice of a bankruptcy hearing the same way as the SD I'll be really stuffed! In the meantime I need to send the CCA letter - do I do that to Amex direct? You also said to complain to the OFT - is this on the grounds they reasonably knew I couldn't respond to the SD? Is there a form to do this? Sorry for all the questions - terrified of getting it wrong as there's obviously only one shot.

Thanks for all your help Shadow - just trying to digest all this - saw the times you submitted these - do you sleep? -

Hi, I know you're thread was a long time ago but what happened in the end?

Brilliant, thanks shadow. Yes they did send it abroad but there is no date on the envelope which is hand written and has a Royal Mail 1st class postage paid ink stamp on it, not a normal one, there is a bar code looking thing printed on the bottom of the envelope. I'll hang on to it anyway You don't think I should still try and get it set aside on Monday? It definitely is already too late? Thanks again

Hi, please can anyone help with some urgent advice as I only have until Sunday 8thNovember(?) to get it sorted! I’ve just received a Statutory Demand from Westminsters Solicitors on behalf of Amex. It was delivered to my mum’s flat abroad where we’ve been staying for a couple of months while we try and get sorted. Our business has failed and as we couldn’t afford our mortgage we’ve rented our home out in order to try and hang on to it and are helping her get over an op here. The SD is dated 21st October and gives me until this Sunday – 8th November to have it set aside ie 2 non working days! I had previously spoken a couple of times in September to RMA who AMEX put on to me and let them know where I was. They're claiming £10,643 which is made up of a principle balance of £8869 and file referral fee of £1773. The account was a business chargecard which I’d had since about 2001 although I was personally responsible for it. The card has a chargecard element which should be cleared monthly and a credit element where transactions over £200 automatically get transferred to a credit account which you don't have to pay off but pay interest on. I'm pretty sure that the credit card bit was added automatically by them after I'd had the card a while. In one of the conversations I had with an RMA guy, he did mention that they couldn’t do something or other because there was an element covered by the CCA but could go for me for the charge card portion. I didn’t really take it in at the time to be honest but having read lots of threads on the site now wonder if that can help my case? Can I still get it set aside even though I’m currently abroad and can’t get/afford to get to the UK for Monday? As they knew I was abroad does it stand to have been served correctly? I’ve read on the site that you should attempt to speak to the person who signed the form – it isn’t properly signed, just a very faint printed signature – but I can’t possibly do that before I fail the deadline. And should I issue the CCA request letter and/or the Subject Access Request. Sorry this is a bit hysterical but having just found the site don’t want them to Bankrupt me before I’ve had a chance to fight. Massively appreciate any help