Hey Debs, You certainly know your eggs on the court procedures !! Marks didn't say they knew it was unenfoceable, just confirmed that there was no CCA for the credit card, but that the CCA for the store card (which is completely absent of prescribed terms), and the revised t&cs (which they didn't sent), takes the place of an individual CCA for the credit card itself. And even said that the OFT told them they could to this, which we know is load of cobblers - and which I told them so !! At which point I asked them for a CCA for the credit card, and for their direction within the 4 corners of the agreement they are to provide, where the prescribed terms could be reviewed. Their response was, we believe this is an enforceable agreement, subsequently this account is not in dispute, pay up. (or words to that effect !). I sent them a final letter saying, I wanted a correctly executed CCA for the CC, and until they provided one, I had no intention of any further communiation. And then it was sold to Sigma ...... (poor dears !) ... I will post up at the end of the 7 day CPR period, and just check with you (if ok) that what I am to send the court is ok from your experience. Abs x

Debs, ....... I have given them 7 days in the CPR (but hoping they discontinue when they recd my letters explaining the dispute). Do I need to give them another 7 days though to satisfy the CPR, or after the 1st 7 days have elapsed, can I then inform the court, and apply for a strike out ?

Yes Debs ... I did advise the Manager that he was wrong re the DPA - who proceeded to shout down the phone and talk over me, that he was GREATLY OFFENDED AND HE HAD WORKED IN FINANCIAL SERVICES FOR 10 YRS .... problem is I told him ..... I'VE WORKED IN IT FOR OVER 20 YRS AND KNOW THE DPA INSIDE OUT ....... that shut him up !!

Hi Maureen, There's nothing to worry about, trust me, they are just trying it on with a load of us whom the bought from Marks. Even if this did get before a Judge, which is very unlikely, they have nothing to go with - their claim talks about a credit agreement for a credit card that I defaulted on - but the problem they have is that THERE IS NO CREDIT AGREEMENT FOR THE CREDIT CARD, so thats their first mistake, they also admitted issuing a claim with ABSOLUTLEY NO DOCUMENTS, so then how do they estblish their claim, what is owed and what I breached ???? The DN is also in breach of the regs - so thats another nail in their coffin. I just had a mild panic, because no one else has even go near a court with my other issues - as I have made sure that my letters clearly show the legalities supporting my dispute - which is the trick. These idiots - are just taking a punt and hoping for the best - when I spoke to them on the phone and discussed what this particular dispute entailed. and if they had no docs from Marks (as they admitted), they had absolutely no business issuing a spurious claim and wasting the courts time, the Mgr I spoke to went to pieces - and said he would have it stayed unti they had time to review the docs and if necessary sell it back to Marks. And don't forget, although I have always argued since 2009, the fact that there is no agreement for the credit card (only a rubbish one for the store card), which means that the debt is unenforceable, this has now subssequently been backed up by the Mayhew case. If you start paying AFTER instigating the dispute which you currently have on-going , you will by default have admitted liability, and that will mean that they CAN TAKE YOU TO COURT AND EXPECT TO WIN. Now you have disputed it, you must stay the course, IF, you receive a court claim, you'll have me (and others) to help guide you, as we will have already been through the process and out the other side. So hold onto your hat and don't panic !! Abs x

Thanks Debs .... thanks for looking in ! I have included in my letter to them (stating the reasons for the dispute), that it is now proven that they are in full possession of the facts of the dispute, and if they fail to immediately withdraw their claim and seek to pursue the matter via judicial proceedings, their claim shall be robustly defended, cited as frivilious and vexatious, and will result in a counter claim for damages and all costs. Hoping they fill their pants with that .... but even if they do call my bluff and proceed, I have enough to blow them out the water ...... including correspondence from Marks where they lied about the approach OFT took re the conversion, and what was supplied with the new card ... albeit the fact they have admitted there is no CCA for the creidt card should nail it on its own. HL in the phone call tried to say there was no CCA for the credit card, as providers only have to retain docs for 6 yrs post application .... !!! What a crock even if there were a cca for the ccard itself .... its 6 yrs after cessation AFAIK !! Then when I enlightened the MANAGER who told me this, that he mis-understood, Marks had confirmed there WAS no CCA, as one was never executed or provided for the card, you could hear him shifting uncomfortably in his loafers !!! At that point, he tried to get me to admit to the debt .... foolish boy !! The Mgr told me the claim woudl be stayed, until they had a chance to review the docs and matter, however, to be on the safe side, I acknolwedged the cliam, have issued them with a CPR request, and have my defence ready for submission if the swines don't stay before I need to submit (13 Aug). Hope you think this is the right way to go, and will post up the vey next development for all to review. Abs xx

Just a quick update on this one, nothing further heard from 1st credit and co, since their purchase of the "alleged" account, from the Arthur Daley of the finance world ... Bank Of Soctland. Abs xx

Ok just an update on this, HL (the cheeky blighters !) have issued a claim with northampton CC - the issues going on are discussed in my separate thread, which you will find in the legal forum. Abs xx

Hi Sarah ... I sort of lost this when it was moved .... do you still need help ?

Hi Skem ... thanks for looking in and your help x Yep, the letters I sent them with the copy charge card cca, fully discussed what the issues were i.e Marks want to rely on the cca for the charge card (that doesn't have any pres terms in it anyway) in support of the credit card, and that I want a CCA for the credit card, which Marks have admitted they can't provide, as one doesn't exist. As I say, the mgr I spoke to said they were going to stay the claim, but I don't want to take any chances .... so I also sent off my CPR31 yesterday by RM .... and if nothing recd, or notice of discontinuance, or a stay with the court - I'll submit the above defence on the MCOL website by the 11th (although 13th is my end date for sub of a defence but I;m away then). We'll see what happens .... as soon as I hear anything, I;ll post up here to let others know how they are dealing with these. Abs x

any guidance anyone ? x

Hey gang, How does this look ... as always, comments, points, corrections - ALL greatly welcomed ... Particulars of Claim Part only of monies due under regulated credit agreement number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Between Marks and Spencer Financial Services Plc, and the Defendant, the benefit of which was assigned to the Claimant on xx/xx/xxxx. The Agreement terminated upon the Defendant(s) failure to comply with the terms of the Agreement and/or the statutory Notice of Default, served by Marks and Spencer Financial Services plc. The claimant seeks interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984, at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of issue continuing at a daily rate of 0.07. DEFENCE 1. Paragraph 1 is neither admitted or denied with regards to the Defendant entering in to an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') the Claimant has yet to disclose any Agreement. Furthermore any claim for partial monies is averred Contrary to s35 of the County Court Act 1984 s35 Division of causes of action. 2. Paragraph 2 is noted with regards to termination of the alleged contractual Agreement , the Defendant has no knowledge, therefore the Claimant is placed to strict proof there of. 3. Paragraph 1 is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to: (a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and (b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and © show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 5. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. 6. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief How does that sound ? (thanks to Mike for pointing me to the right template) .... Abs x

No Skem .... I didn't think that at all ... but if the cap fits !!! ( I really could kick myself, but was trying to force them early doors to stop the insanity !). I'll give some good reading to the suggested bits .... and come back for comment on what I've cobbled together !! xxxx

Thanks Mike ... off for a bit of reading ... will catch up later this pm with what I have !! Thanks again for your help .... as my first flurry with court procedures I'm in the dark with it all .... so you are being a fantastic sounding board and source of knowledge !! Unitl a bit later .... over and out for now .... Abs xxx

The only bug in this is I go away for a week on 11 Aug - which would be within the 2nd 7 day time frame they would be given - flaming typical ! If they haven't replied by the end of the 1st 7 days, and the court confirm no stay on record - I shall have to get my defence in I think (going to have a go later on and post up for comment !). If so does that mean that I don't write to them giving a reminder for another 7 days ? Or what is the best thing to do ? Abs x

Will do ... 1st CPR 31.14 off today - 1st class recorded. I've also just rung the court to check the stay position - they have said that they are only working on the 12 July - so I will need to call back next week to see if its been processed. Abs x

Aye Aye Mike !! I'll get the CPR off today - I'll also include the 7 day period in the heading, again is this 7 calender or working days ? I'll take a look at other defences, and then base mine around their format ... and it would be great if you and others would be kind enough to give it the once over for me ! Thanks for your time and assistance x Abs x

Thanks guys for looking in ..... I know what a bozo re providing the copy CCA - I just wanted to show them that what MS had provided was utter garbage, hoping on recipet they would just give up, knowing there is no mileage in pursuing the claim. !! So, send off the CPR and mark it they have 7 (working of calender days ?) to respond. Is my CPR that I have posted up ok for sending off ? Call the court next week and if no stay recorded - start constructing my defence and get it in pre D Day. (I have from 2 weeks Monday coming - 13 Aug 2012). I have no idea how to begin drafting a court worthy (in court language !) defence on this, although I know what I am defending on. Anyone have a template, or guidance on how I construct ? As you know we have a ccard that a compliant CCA can't be provided for (all the sent was the copy of the old charge card app/agreement (that had no pres terms in it), a copy of the t&cs for the store card, and then MUCH later, a copy of the credit card t&cs (which I did not recieve and did not accompany the card on receipt). I also have a VERY duff DN - ie remedy within 14 days of the the notice, not in prescribed format re the bold highlighting where required, and other bits - do I include this in my defence ? Abs x

Thanks MM ... here it comes .... I have split it into paragraphs and inserted comma's for easy reading, in reality the claim form has this just all running on from each other, with no comma's etc. Particulars of Claim Part only of monies due under regulated credit agreement number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Between Marks and Spencer Financial Services Plc, and the Defendant, the benefit of which was assigned to he Claimant on xx/xx/xxxx. The agreement terminated upon the Defendant(s) failure to comply with the terms of the Agreement and/or the statutory Notice of Default, served by Marks and Spencer Financial Services plc. The claimant seeks interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984, at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of issue continuing at a daily rate of 0.07. Rhona Lavender Just as a head up on this, its a store to credit card - CCA and amp; t&cs sent for store card on iniital request, then when challenged as not pertaining to the credit card, they sent a library copy of revised T&Cs that they said came with the card, and that the revised T&Cs and my use of the ccard, clearly demonstrated I agreed to the switch. Got to laugh havne't you !! But no T&Cs came with the card, or before it was issued, as I have the original letter advising of the change over (with no mention of revised t&cs), and the card carrier with the original card still attached to it ! (this is because I couldn't find it, and asked for a replacement, which is the one that was active). Even so, I have advised then that under Reg 7 of CCA84, modifying agreements - the claimed issue of revised T&Cs was simply not sufficient, and that a new CCA for execution should have been supplied, as the OFT told them. (as they argued that the OFT told them it was perfectly ok to just send out the card with revised T&CS ... And thats just one lie, in my case they sent out 1 copy cca, and then sent another, to support their s61 B re presc terms claim). However the 2nd copy was clearly amended to infer that the T&C for the store card were on the reverse of the app .... BUT the very first copy of this doc they send clearly showed the reverse of the app was illustrated as just a pre-paid addressee for the submission of the app/agreement to MS in Chester for processing. They just gave up in the end .... and sold it on ... Abs x

OOh Do please look in Skem .. !! When I spoke to HL, the first clerk fully agreed why I was disputing the account, and told me that they did get full files from the OC. Then the manager was put it on, because the clerk went to pieces to be honest, WHILST the Mgr initially started with quite a bullying tone and did everything to get me to admit the debt (silly boy !), he then, once he listened (and he got a bit of attitude back), admitted that HL get absolutly no files form M&S, just a list of names and debts, and admitted once pushed, that they had no idea what the dispute was on the account, which proceeded its subsequent default. I wish I had known about the court process then, but what I did say to them during the call was that the claim had no basis or merit - and I demanded it be withdrawn. Hope the above helps with Cosalts claim, or defence ... I can privately give the managers name I spoke to if that helps too. Abs x

Thanks Andy ... you're a star ! Any view ? I'm worried I haven't sent the CPR (although of course, the manager I spoke to, has already admitted that they don't have any Marks docs at all, and would be staying the claim whilst he contacted them. The court told that the judgement isn't automatic from them, but that the claimant has to apply for it - but they said to be on the safe side, and if they don't request a stay, to submit a defence in any event - that way I was covered (they were really helpful to be honest). Abs x>

Just wanted to say, that the interest requested on my claim is again for £299.99 & £50 legal and Court costs of £15 - they told me when I rang them (following reciept of the claim form)l, that they haven't claimed the full amount to save me money, as the costs for a full claim would be very high indeed, and they felt it more fair to just issue a claim for Sigmas interest that has accrued since the assignment. So, if 2 claims have the same requested amount of interest, yet different balances, thats further evidence of the suprious nature of their claims - they are apparently based on a figure picked out of the air. Also, if this helps I was told that they don't get any files form Marks, just a list of names and balances that have been sold. The manager told me, that they had issued a cliam, as I had not responded to their corresponce (considering half of them were in the wrong name, no wonder I told them ! ). But that even so, I had both written to them, and spoken to an Agt on the phone, again advising them of the dispute status of the account ..... he said "we have no record of that" ... He also said that he would need to contact the OC for their complaint file on the account. So they are also issuing claims with absolutley NO DOCS TO BACK IT UP , OR BASE IT ON. I have my own thread on my own claim form, but just wanted to mention this on here, in case it assists Coasalts defence etc. I would gratefully appreciate a few of you taking a peek at mine, to see if what I have done is correct, on there you will read why I think I may have made a big boo boo, and would love some advice as to if I have, and what it may mean. Any developments on mine, that I think will help here, I will pop in an leave the info. Thanks guys .. Abs x

Hey Thanks Andy ! I do have my own M&S thread, where I published this, but I was told that it would be best to have it looked the legal thread ..... didn't mean hijack (know its very annoying to the OP when that happens). I will trundle over to my new thread on this. Abs xx

any comments ? anyone ?

If its best practice to issue CPR - is this correct ... ?? Dear Sirs Re: Sigma SPV 1 Limited v xxxxxxxx: xxxxxxxxx CPR 31.14 Request On 13 July 2012 I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court . I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court, in which I indicate my intention to fully contest all of your claim. Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of:- CCA regulated agreement pertaining to Sxxxxxxxxxxxxx You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the originals should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached. Notice of assignment Default notice Termination notice You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case. Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any versions to include an obligation to recover and preserve such versions which are now in the possession of a third party. In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request. If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence. If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order. I do hope this action will not be necessary however, and look forward to your earliest response. Yours faithfully Abs x

Claim for a partial claim of interest (£299.99) since assignement to Sigma SPV (HL Legal are dealing) !! Issued Northampton Bulk, on 10 July 2012, recd Friday 13 July (don't say it !!!), acknowledged on 14 July 2012. I actually rang them on 13 July 2012, and spoke to a manger, advised him what the dispute status of the alleged account was, etc. He advised that he was going to get the claim stayed until they could review the docs (after trying to get me to admit the debt !) - following which they may sell it back to the OC ! Now this is where I thnk I may have made a boo boo .... I (to be extra helpful and a bit of a know all I suspect !!), have just yesterday sent a copy of the agreement provided to me by Marks (which was for a store card, then converted to a credit card) - to show how carp it was. And also a copy of my original letter to them following their pay up, we know of no dispute standard letter, saying it was not acknowledged and disputed, and the basis of dispute. With a covering letter FAO the manager, stating that upon the enclosed docs, and proof being provided of an unenforceable debt, any further pursuance would be cited as frivilious and vexatious and robustly defended, to which I demanded that their claim be immediately withdrawn. Any issues with what I have done .... have a thrown a clanger ..... I provided what I expect M&S would provide them with, whom they stated they were to contact for a copy file of the account and dispute ...... Which discusses the fact that a CC store app (with no presc terms), can not be utilisised for an unsoliicted CCard - furthermore to rely upon the storecard CCA and alleged revised T&Cs, which I DID NOT receive, in place of a new CCA, is very bogus as per Reg 7 of CCA84 modifying agreements, which demands a new CCA and T&Cs be issued under a modified agreement (but I haven't mentioned I also have a VERY duff DN to boot !). Anyhoo, I have acknowledged on line and also phoned the court. They have told me that there is a 2 week backlog on correspondence, so the stay rerquest may not be processed until 1st week in Aug. I have until 13 August to submit a defence. Do I also need to issue the CPR (is it 13 ?), or do I just submit my defence if not stayed by beg of August ? Also, has anyone a template store card to credit card, duff DN, defence I could borrow ..... as this is my first court adventure, and a little un-nerving when you don't know the protocal etc ... so ALL comments and guidance very welcome ... ! Abs x