Wait till it comes to court, then deny every aspect of their claim and ask for disclosure of the order form of the new starter (even if you have the statement mentioned in my last post). Now the thing is I know Employment Tribunal procedures, but not county court. So you need to get some avice or get hold of books etc on county court procedures (Google would be a good start) and see how you can get disclosure. That should blow their case out of the water- especially as they have lied about what vehicle the new starter wanted. hopethis helps

Hi you need evidence of this by way of a statement from the person who told you. Perhaps by telling them that you are being asked to pay for the new guys upgrade - try to get the stateemnt signed.

Sorry i've not been on the site for some time -been away and also found out that i've got diabetes, brought on by stress. Anyway to try and help - firstly i'd try to get legal help from Union, CAB, house insurance or any other sources. Next I'd try and focus on each item to see if evry aspect of the statements the other side has made is correct and dispute the incorrect ones. I'd let it go to court and argue that you are being charged for someone elses liability (the person taking over the lease should have incurred the upgrade costs). Then if that is not upheld, agree to pay, but ahow that you have very little means and can only pay at the rate of £10 per week or something. Let the court decide on the matter. But please check it out with a lawyer, even if it is taking advantage of the usual free hour consultation that most lawyers have. I'll try and think about the problem a bit more later. good luck

Any updates on this Char?

Look you cannot possibly trust this creep - someone who makes a proposition like that is never going to keep their word. He will sleep with you but will not lift a finger to help you keep your job. You will never be able to hold him to his word. Youll find that you sleep with him and still lose your job. You'd even be better off going into escorting instead of sleeping with this berk to keep your job becasue that way at least you'd be assured of the pay- its a more honest transaction. Dont do it, even if you have no morality issues.

But I get your point El. If they lie on ET3, their goose will be cooked I guess.

Yes that could also work, but really it depends on what the charges are and if the OP is guilty or not and what evidence they have. Because, if the OP is dismissed with strong evidence, Polkey defence would be that even if the procedure was erroneous, the OP was clearly guilty and would have been dismissed anyway, so no award despite an unfair dismissal. My advice was really geared towards trying to avoid dismissal in the first instance, but keeping the ET option alive and well - because at this stage we do not know what evidence there is/ that will come out of the woodwork.

The employers seem to be really mean spirited (geddit mean spirited - never mind- sorry I know its not a laughing matter) I dont think theres any legislation/ regulations/ case law covering this - perhaps someone could confirm. My advice is to act together and refuse to pay. How can they keep track of how many shots are unaccoubted for (I dont know much about bar business)?

Yes I agree - this, coupled with the advisor conducting the interview, indicates that the result was a foregone conclusion and the hearing was not fair. Accordingly, any dismissal as a result would also be unfair, I think.

Does the recording prove that the advisors role was simply to record and advise? If so, then you have evidence to show that they misled you in the conduct of the investigations. At this stage, may I suggest you send them amended minutes, reflecting your version of events - keep mainly to their words and change only to reflect aspects that favour you. Try not to make it so that they suspect that you have recorded the meeting. In the covering letter say that they must have not noted the meeting accurately and this version of the minutes, you feel, better reflects the discussions. Don't tell them you have recorded the meeting but also don't lie (this is important if you want the integrity of the recording to be maintained). The recording is most likely to be allowed at an ET, but if you lie about it, it affects your credibility. Also I assume the reason you recorded the meeting is not that you dont have any trust and confidence in your employers, but because you needed a memory aid. Otherwise, if there is a loss of trust and confidence, you could win at ET but still be dismissed (see aziz v trinity taxis on BAILII website)

sorry on second thoughts, 'nail' was not the correct term to use. Ooo-er missus

There is no particular legal difference so far as I am aware. Minutes are a record of a meeting - does not need to be exhaustive but has to be accurate. Notes are simply notes of relevant points from a meeting and would not include anything not pertinent to the issue at hand. Can I ask- how did you get a verbatim transcript - was the meeting recorded and did you do it surrepticiously? The final issue regarding the minutes is do the differences reduce the impact of your case - i.e. are the minutes a fair reflection or do they favour the employers perspective? This is relevant in terms of the advice

You could forget to charge the phone or accidentally leave it in a drawer and not hear it. Happens to me regularly. I would suggest a combination of all of the suggestions above

I naively believed such things were extremely rare. I'd support the view that speak to your HR in cinfidence and suggest a three way call to prove your case - so ask him things like - that offer you made the other day, is that still open? - I have thought about it and can I get it straight exactly what sort of things youd expect from me? How often? etc. you get the gist. Good luck and nail that creep!

Elche rules!

The County Council FPN is a civil enforcement matter and does not go on your criminal record. Neither does FPN's from Police for speeding, parking on double yellow lines etc. - things that are not criminal. A Police Caution or a drink driving conviction however, are crimes and would come up on CRB. Go to the CRB website here www.crb.homeoffice.gov.uk/ for detailed guidance

Just a bit about no win no fee people - general advice is to avoid them (last resort). Try to get support from union/ home insurace. If you cant, you can usually expect emplyer to pay your legal costs for the compromise agreement.

Defamation is usually extremely expensive to take to court (I was advised I wouldn't get much change out of £150,000 when I looked at it). So you have to judge if the company would take such expensive action. Secondly remedy for defamation is usually actual damage. So the company will only get back the direct loss they have suffered. So for example, defaming Elton John may be very expensive becasue he will be able to show that the resultant loss of reputation has meant a reduction in his income by less appearances, album sales etc. as a large amount of it depends on his image (some would say also his talent). But defaming Northern Electric may not be so expensive because they may find it difficult to show a significant loss of income as a result of the defamation, given that their customers are not transient. Also another thing to bear in mind that you cannot defame a public body.

IMHO it seems a bit like overpayment. Employers are entitled to ask for the overpayment back, so I think if they have given you too many holidays, they can ask for it back too. Employees od not have a right to benefit from genuine mistakes of employers. It seesm to me allowing you to repay over two years is fairly generous.

could it be simply to save the redundancy pay?

Welfare at work regs apply. Heres the link http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg293.pdf

I would appeal along the lines of something like this: I wish to appeal the decision of the board as it appears to perverse, based on the evidence. I will be able to expand further on this appeal if and when relevant information is disclosed to me. in the event of continued non-disclosure, I would request the appeal is determined by an independent third party, acceptable to me.

The POVA regs require the enhanced checks. The real problem is not the conviction, but the fact you failed to declare it. CRB guidance (and Rehabilitation of Offenders Act) says the nature of the spent offence and how long ago it occurred should be taken into account before deciding to employ someone, i.e. your spent conviction should not have prevented you from doing the job. Go onto CRB website and read up all the guidance to employers there - I recall reading there about what kind of spent convictions that should be taken into account. The Local Authority will have its own CRB policy and ask for a copy of that which should give similar guidance. I would then submit and appeal, citing that the offence was a long time ago and a foolish thing you did in your youth (I assume you were a youth at that time?). Entirely regret it and have never done (and will not do ) anything remotely like it. Say its extremely unjust if such foolishness result in loss of employment. Also highlight the risk assessment was wrong. The problem, as I said before, is the failure to declare. Simply dont mention it because it seems that you have been dismissed for the spent conviction and not for failing to declare. If it does come up, only then do you need to highlight that you had forgotten all about it, being 27 years ago. By the way the enhanced disclosure form does ask for both spent and unspent convictions. Also I believe you can complain to CRB if they fail to follow their own guidelines regarding what kind of offences should result in dismissal- check their website for this one. Finally I recall having a conversation about 4 years ago about what to do if an existing employee comes up with a record and never really concluded that conversation, but knew that this was a muddy area. Perhaps you need to see your union again for advice (or see CAB/ solicitor)

I thought Osama was the president of the USA, or is that Obama - I am easily confused. Very interesting thread Sainty - cant help but agree that you do not have a leg to stand on. My understanding is this: I am pretty sure Legal Aid is not available for ET cases. 'No win no fee' lawyers will not take on your case, based on what you have posted so far. As Elpulpo says most solicitors will have an initial meeting with you free, but you might find that they will only take on your case if you pay them. You can try CAB - they may take on your case, unlikely though. Reading the posts, it seems to me that you're refusing to accept the fundamental issue here - you deprived your employer of a job. This is the same as theft. You might not have stolen the £80, but you stole that particular pickup job (which was worth £80 to you). No business in the world can afford to have employees stealing their customer from them. You were just taking the p*ss. I think your actions amount to gross misconduct - there is very little doubt. Cannot see what procedures he failed to follow. It is quite justifiable to instantly dismiss someone for such gross misconduct. Any lawyer worth his salt will argue that there was no failure to follow procedures, given the fundamental breach of duty. And they will also argue for Polkey deduction in the alternative. However, personal use of a work van is not taxable as a benefit in kind, if youre contributing towards the fuel. And no, I have never done a job for cash in hand and most people I know havent either (I work in the construction industry). All hail President Osama. Huh where am I?

OP if you feel that strongly, make a complaint to the agency itself and you also have the option of complaining to the Information Commissioner, although I'm not sure how far IC will want to take it.