Well, there you are! Dannyboy660 and I obviously have a completely different way of playing this, but I suspect both are equally valid. It really is just a case of personal choice. It is like a chess game. Some players are naturally aggressive, while others play for position and look to counterattack. There is no right or wrong way. I totally agree that there is no need to be polite or anything remotely approaching it. The idiot who disturbs you is doing so in the full knowledge that they are a pest, a nuisance and that what they are doing is totally immoral and totally unwarranted. If you annoy someone, expect them to be annoyed. One plus one equals two. Sequestration? So, you are in Scotland? We need to bear that in mind, because some parts of the law are different up there. Best not to send them any letters quoting "English Common Law." I can understand your concerns about your mother. That is a common problem with these threats. If she will be there and you won't be on Wednesday, just tell her not to answer the door as there have been reports of dodgy characters in the area. You don't have to say exactly what type. There is still a good chance that this is all bluff. I hope you are in a nice rural part of Scotland where travel will be very expensive and time consuming. Durness, anyone? SH

There have been a great many of these short application forms on here. No, these were not front and back, although many a DCA is now trying to CONvince people that they were. Stand your ground on this, but be prepared for a fight. I'll try to find some threads of people who have had the same thing. SH

A quick look at the OneLook Online Dictionary shows "appointment" as meaning "the thing arranged or agreed to." What were those last two words again? That's right - agreed to. Time to fire off the necessary complaints. Consumer Direct, OFT etc. As far as the possibility of the thugs turning up on your doorstep, my own advice is always to keep the door firmly shut and locked. Ignore the idiot. It is their time and their fuel that they are wasting. Much of the reasoning is due to psychology. Doorstep visits are designed to intimidate and provoke a reaction. If you give them no reaction whatsoever, you defeat their purpose to the fullest possible degree. Even if you tell them to something off they have still disturbed you enough to provoke a reaction, and at a deep level that will still give them some degree of satisfaction. There is nothing more deflating to a bully than having to skulk away with the knowledge that the intended victim couldn't even be bothered to raise a fly-swat to get rid of them. The reference is Dr. Eric Berne's "The Games People Play." - "It is amazing how many people stop throwing the ball when you stop making an effort to catch it." SH

Other considerations - 1. Carter never complies with CPR requests. Don't expect to receive any information in response to these requests. They are made so that you can include Carter's non-compliance in your defence, and then challenge him again at the Allocation Questionnaire stage. Eventually, if he wants to continue, he will need to produce some paperwork. 2. Carter usually bottles out at the AQ stage if people stand up to him. There are no guarantees, of course, but this character likes easy fights. That is why we are making it as difficult as possible for him right from the start. You will then be able to issue an order for your costs. Have a look at this typical case - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/170673-bryan-carter-ccj-can.html 3. Earlier in the thread you were advised to send a CCA request to Arrow Global. The problem in this case is that the nature of the account is unknown, as it doesn't even seem to belong to the defendant. Do you make a request under Section 77(1) [fixed sum credit] or 78(1) [running account credit]? With a quoted account number, it would still be possible to make a request, but you wouldn't be able to use the template letter. You would have to make it clear that you have an account number but that you don't know what it relates to. Therefore you are making a request pursuant to Section 77(1) if the account number relates to fixed sum credit, or Section 78(1) if the account number relates to running account credit. Also include a paragraph stating that if there is no account with this number relating to , please confirm this in writing. If they did, of course, they would be admitting that their claim has no basis. It is a pound to a penny that your request will be ignored, which will just strengthen your case as the claimant will be in default of it when the matter goes to court. 4. Another possibility is to send a Subject Access Request to Arrow Global requesting all information they hold on you relating to . If you have never held this account, they will not, of course, be able to produce anything. The disadvantage of this is that it wastes £10. It really is your choice. With Carter, I wouldn't send it. I would just challenge him at the AQ stage. 5. This defence is going to need to be tailored to this case, as it is so dissimilar to any other that we have seen. Time to start working on it now, assuming that Carter will ignore your requests. He will. SH

The other important rule is CPR 18. PART 18 - FURTHER INFORMATION - Ministry of Justice This is more versatile, in that you can request information whether or not it is contained in a Statement of Case. It is less powerful, however, because it relies on the court to enforce it. You can't make an application using N244 if this rule is not complied with, as you can with CPR 31.14. With pitiful PoC such as Carter's, it is important to make use of this. Also by Special Delivery, I would send this - "In the Northampton County Court xxxxxxxxxxx -v- xxxxxxxxxxxx Claim Number: xxxxxxxxxxxx Dear Sir/Madam REQUEST FOR INFORMATION - CPR PART 18 I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below. The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought. 1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold. 1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to: (a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents (b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s) © copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with (d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards 2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to: a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with Barclaycard. c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable). d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers. e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied. f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998 g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed. h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement. 3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court. I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim. Yours sincerely, (NAME - print, don't sign)" SH

The most powerful of the Civil Procedure Rules under which you can demand information is CPR 31.14. Have a look here - PART 31 - DISCLOSURE AND INSPECTION OF DOCUMENTS - Ministry of Justice As you will see from the following rule, CPR 31.15, the claimant has to provide the requested document within 7 days. The limit of CPR 31.14 is that you can only include documents mentioned in the Statement of Case. In this case, you are limited to the agreement. Even that isn't specifically mentioned, but an account number is. Without some form of contract being entered into, there cannot be an account number. The biggest difficulty here is that we do not even know what the account number relates to, as it doesn't even seem to be the defendant's account. It could be a loan, credit card, or bank account overdraft. Nevertheless, we have to go with what we have, so I would send the following letter by Special Delivery - "Dear Sir, Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No: CPR 31.14 Request On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court. I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim. Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of the following document mentioned in your Particulars of Claim: The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached. Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise. You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case. Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party. In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request. If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence. If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order. I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you. yours faithfully (NAME - print, don't sign)" SH

Forget about the stress - let's give some to Carter instead. The first step is to go on to the Moneyclaim site and acknowledge service, stating that you will be defending all of the claim. This gives you 33 days from the date of the claim form to submit a defence. The next step is to get some letters ready to send to Carter demanding information under the Civil Procedure Rules. Back in a minute. SH

Christ! How low can Carter sink! If you have posted in good time, it shouldn't be difficult to see this [EDIT] off. Have you acknowledged service yet? SH

I can read! Judging by what has been said on this thread so far the OP clearly has "disposable" income of less than £50, and it sounds very much as though asset levels will be below £300. It has already been established that there is no property involved. The only question is the size of the alleged debts. If they amount to over £15,000 then quite frankly you have no sensible option but to go bankrupt. If you don't, it is absolutely guaranteed that you will live below the poverty line until you are dead. Some degree of realism is needed here. £30 a month? How long are you going to be able to keep paying that? What happens when you have other sudden expenses? What happens when vital electrical equipment breaks down, as it doubtless will in the time before you are able to pay these leeches £6,000? What happens when the other alleged debtors start demanding their pound of flesh? What happens when the utility bills which are constantly rising reach a level where you can't even meet your basic essentials without having to sell the items you no longer have? It is all very well saying "make sure you pay £30 on the dot every month." That just isn't living in reality. If there really is no way to get this disgraceful judgment set aside or to appeal against it, you will need to think very seriously about this. SH

Just one question which no-one seems to have asked yet - If you have no assets and a business which is producing no income could you not qualify for a Debt Relief Order? I noticed a post earlier where you said you came home to three letters from DCAs. If there are more problems than just this one, which is bad enough by itself, it might be something to think about. SH

Defending claims by Cabot Financial One of my stated goals in creating this thread was to improve the standard of the defences which are being submitted to counter Cabot Financial claims. Further to this end, I draw your attention to an excellent post made by Brent-London, who I believe trained as a barrister in Australia. The facts concerning Section 61(1)(a) and Section 127(3) are exactly as I have quoted in earlier posts on this thread. Brent-London has taken those facts and created an excellent defence (or part of a defence) based on them. If I was issued with court papers tomorrow, I would definitely be using this as part of my defence. It counters Cabot's deceit before they even get started. Defences do need to be individually crafted based on your own circumstances, but there are so many of us with so-called agreements which do not contain the prescribed terms that this part can just be used as is. A big thank you to Brent-London. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/213040-martin-cabot-financial-11.html#post2584527

In my opinion any letter which does not contain the details of any specific account is simply a phishing exercise and should be ignored. Retain for evidence in case you make complaints to the regulatory authorities in the future. SH

What did the letter say? SH

Hi Big Bother, It is Nell's thread! I've had another read of this thread, and I find the situation extraordinary. Paragoon are blatantly refusing to comply with Data Protection laws, and we simply don't know why. Arrowgant are not exactly in a great position either, having said that will request a copy of the agreement from the original creditor two years ago. The original creditor is Paragoon, who apparently don't have any paperwork. Paragoon are claiming, according to the letter in post #24, that the paperwork was all given to Arrowgant. Whatever the truth is, it is quite clear that no-one has any paperwork with which to cause trouble at this time. Although you have every right to complain to the Information Commissioner about Paragoon's refusal to comply with the Data Protection Act, or even to take the matter to court, it is probably better not to at this stage. It might just make somebody look harder for what you don't want them to find. I am not an expert on immigration law, but I do know that all EU citizens have the right to reside in any member country. Even a criminal record does not affect this, never mind an unenforceable alleged debt with no paperwork to even prove that it exists. The USA is different, and has strict immigration laws. It is not easy to get into. If your husband has a skilled profession which means he can do the work which an American citizen cannot do, he should get the visa. America has laws banning the entry of criminals who have committed crimes involving serious moral turpitude, but an unprovable civil debt is not even going to show up, never mind matter. I believe it is possible for debts to be enforced within the EU, but again I am not an international planning expert. Certainly, this alleged debt cannot be forced anywhere unless somebody can find some paperwork. Even if the rogue agreement did show up, where is the information which would allow anyone to calculate the proper balance? I personally would ignore Arrowgant as long as they stay in default of your CCA request. Don't poke them or they might just find something. Start preparing for your overseas adventure. If it happens, stay in touch through this thread and show us a picture of where you end up living. It is always great to see CAG members moving forward into a better life. All the best, SH

Worst Crudit and CONnaught ARE the same shower of effluent. I have seen these idiotic letters offering all sorts of ridiculous "gifts" in exchange for donations. They are pretty much the same as the letters offering full and final settlements - what they really mean is "we're stuffed without the agreement so we'll try to con them out of their money." Did you have the Statutory Demand set aside? Whether you did or not it still needs reporting to the OFT. Even the government office which never acts acted against Worst Crud - they are on notice to stop abusing the Insolvency Service. If they are in default of your request under s78(1) or s77(1) then there is nothing to do unless you choose to go on the attack with complaints. They are clearly in breach of the OFT Debt Collection Guidance and the CPUTR 2008 by chasing an alleged debt in serious dispute, so you can report them if you wish. No need to get confused by idiots calling themselves different names. It is just another trick to attempt to con you out of your money. SH

You are far more "on your own" dealing with companies who don't give a monkey's about you but only care about your wallet than you are with the good people of the CAG. As evidenced by the quality of the response here, there is plenty of help and support available. The important step is to create a strategic plan. We can't give you one, because it all depends on your circumstances. 1) Banking Security Whatever your income is now, make sure it is paid into a bank account totally unrelated to any group you are having issues with. Securing your present income is the first step in getting some peace of mind, and in digging yourself out of debt trouble. 2) Communications If you have multiple alleged debts, you are going to be bombarded with letters and silly telephone calls. It is important to be prepared for this, and to have a system in place to handle it. Get a trueCall if you are able to. If not, or the telephone is not important to you, just pull the plug out of the wall when you need peace and quiet. If you do happen to answer the telephone, and it is a debt collector, just use the BT Phone Book advice for dealing with nuisance calls. As I have no family, the only calls I ever receive are nuisance calls. I just pull the plug out and forget it. The last time I received a genuine telephone call was August 2007, just after my father died, and I doubt whether I'll ever get another one. As for the paper mountain, get a filing system. If you don't have a box file, improvise with large envelopes. One large envelope for each alleged debt. It is essential to keep all relevant paperwork together. We all get bombarded with junk mail from idiots anyway. What I have done is put a black bin bag at the bottom of the stairs. Everything which does not need to be filed goes in there. Only letters which need to go in the file come up the stairs. When the black bag is full, it goes out with the household rubbish. This, I have found, is the easiest way to get the paper mountain under control. 3) Challenging the attacker Once these systems are in place, you are in a position to quickly read any letters which come in, and also to reply to anything which needs a response. Follow the filtering system - If a letter has no account details on it, it is simply a phishing attempt. Ignore it. File it away to use in future complaints as it breaches OFT guidelines. If a letter has account details, but they are not yours, send a "prove it" letter. If a letter has correctly identified one of your accounts, but there has been a period of six years somewhere in the account's history with no written acknowledgment or payment, send a "statute barred" letter. If the alleged debt is not barred, but is a credit card or loan regulated under the Consumer Credit Act, send the CCA letter asking for a true copy of the agreement. You could also send a Subject Access Request to the original creditor if you believe there are unfair charges or mis-sold PPI. If an account has been terminated and passed on, I would send a SAR anyway, as you need to see the default notice. If it is an overdraft, Subject Access Request the lender to get the information you need to calculate unfair charges. As these letters are templates which need very little alteration, it shouldn't take much effort to handle a multitude of accounts. One good idea if you really have a huge number of alleged debts is to draw up a "master sheet", with the names of the accounts down the left hand side of the page, and a progress report along each line. This lets you see instantly where you are with each account. 4) Work out your strategy This is impossible to advise on, as it depends on the individual. If you have no assets and are on benefits, you could think about the Debt Relief Order as a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card. If everything goes pear-shaped, and you end up with CCJs and a whole stinking mess, you can be ready to pull out your trump card and get rid of it all. There are, of course, consequences and considerations with this, but the Debt Relief Order can give people a chance to live again sometime in the future. If you are a property owner, you can consider letting out a room to a lodger for some tax free income, which might cover the payments on any alleged debt which is enforceable. It all depends on your circumstances. A property which now has negative equity can still become an asset if you use it in the right way. Nobody gets out of debt hell in five minutes, and especially not during a depression. Nevertheless, there is always something which can be done, and there is always someone on CAG who can help. There are people who have been through bankruptcies, business failures, messy divorces, bereavements and many other tragic and difficult circumstances, and have come back to have successful lives. It has been done and it is possible. This is one thing I would like to work on in the future - trying to add another dimension to all of this. CAG has proven to be brilliant at helping and supporting people through debt hell. Now, I would like to see us go forward to another dimension. If we can show half as much intelligence, teamwork and dedication in business as we have on CAG, we should all be able to make successful lives for ourselves. As ever, I extend the same offer to you as many of my colleagues have. I am only a PM away. SH

Forget about telephone contact being a way to resolve anything. You should never engage in telephone dialogue unless a) you are recording the call and b) you have a specific reason, defined in advance, for doing so. I don't even agree with the advice to tell them "only in writing". As they will never take any notice of this, why tell them anything? The advice given in the BT Phone Book for dealing with nuisance callers is best - say nothing. As for sending the "prove it" letter, it is probably premature at this stage. We can't see the letter you have been sent, but does it give any details of any alleged debt - balance, account number etc. If not, there is no point sending a "prove it" letter as they have stated nothing which needs proving. Any letter which does not state account details should be ignored. If they have an account in mind, let them show it at the start. If not, let them waste their time and money. The phishing letters can always be retained and used in a complaint to the OFT in due course. SH PS Just seen oldandrew's post - Crapbot and other vermin always word these silly letters so it can be taken either way. They know that a certain percentage of people will be frightened by a doorstep visit and take the bait. As of now, I have seen no case where Crapbot have used doorstep harassment. This phishing letter should be ignored.

I think I'll apply for the Worst Crudit one. I can spell "Statutory Demand", but I can't spell "OFT" SH

How to fill out a Budget Planning Form - MONTHLY INCOME Rent from my Gloucestershire Country Mansion £500,000 Rent from my Kent Country Mansion £450,000 Annual retainer from the Crown for services rendered to the Royal Family £2,500,000 Income from my Wimbledon private box £150,000 Income from my Royal Ascot private box £275,000 Casino winnings £300,000 Revenue from renting out my private Lear Jet £450,000 Media Endorsements £175,000 Gifts from my Fan Club £4,575,000 ______________ TOTAL £9,375,000 MONTHLY OUTGOINGS Rent (council flat in Barnsley shared with 112 others) £2.64 Food (when I can't get any from the soup kitchen or charities) £1.28 Clothes (from Oxfam) 60p Transportation (only shoes - I can't afford bus fares) 20p Holidays (I have one day a year standing in the local park) 0 Pleasure (I am religious so I don't believe in it) 0 Money spent responding to idiotic threat letters from debt collectors £9,374,996 _____________ TOTAL £9,375,000.72 NET INCOME = £-0.72p I am negotiating with a 114th person to share the flat, and if that happens, I may be able to offer you token payments in the future. Provided the extra revenue is not swallowed up by the losses I have taken investing in Crapbot Farcical shares. Goodnight. SH

More Crapbot LIES. Section 127(3) mentions NOTHING about prejudice. That is mentioned in Section127(1) and then (2), where the court has discretionary powers. To quote Section 127 in full - "127.— (1) In the case of an application for an enforcement order under— (a) section 65(1) (improperly executed agreements), or (b) section 105(7)(a) or (b) (improperly executed security instruments), or © section 111(2) (failure to serve copy of notice on surety), or (d) section 124(1) or (2) (taking of negotiable instrument in contravention of section 123), the court shall dismiss the application if, but (subject to subsections (3) and (4)) only if, it considers it just to do so having regard to— (i) prejudice caused to any person by the contravention in question, and the degree of culpability for it; and (ii) the powers conferred on the court by subsection (2) and sections 135 and 136. (2) If it appears to the court just to do so, it may in an enforcement order reduce or discharge any sum payable by the debtor or hirer, or any surety, so as to compensate him for prejudice suffered as a result of the contravention in question. (3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner). (4) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) in the case of a cancellable agreement if— (a) a provision of section 62 or 63 was not complied with, and the creditor or owner did not give a copy of the executed agreement, and of any other document referred to in it, to the debtor or hirer before the commencement of the proceedings in which the order is sought. or (b)section 64(1) was not complied with. (5) Where an enforcement order is made in a case to which subsection (3) applies, the order may direct that the regulated agreement is to have effect as if it did not include a term omitted from the document signed by the debtor or hirer. I challenge any Crapbot employee to find the word "prejudice", or any indirect reference to prejudice, in Section 127(3). They are LYING, and that fact needs to be pointed out to them (as if they don't already know), in a formal complaint. It also needs to be reported to the OFT, although that doesn't have to be done immediately. Referring to another document which contains the terms will not suffice. Section 127(3) is explicit on this, when it states "itself containing all the prescribed terms." The relevant case law is Wilson v Hurstanger. From the judgment of Lord Justice Tuckey - "It is not necessary or rewarding to go on a grand tour of the legislation in order to explain the issues we have to decide. Put shortly section 60 (1) of the Act gives power to the Secretary of State to make regulations as to the form and content of documents embodying regulated agreements. Section 61 (1) provides that a regulated agreement is not properly executed unless it is in a document containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to the regulations made under section 60 (1). An improperly executed agreement is enforceable against the debtor only on an order of the court (section 65 (1)), but no such an order can be made unless it contains all the prescribed terms (section 127 (3)). " "In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under section 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127 (3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement. More detailed requirements, which are designed to ensure that the debtor is made aware, so far as possible, of specified information (including information contained in the minimum terms) are to be found in Schedule 1." SH

The courts SHOULD throw the case straight out, in fact it shouldn't get near a court in the first place. The problem is, what should happen and what does happen are often not the same thing. Some judges don't have enough knowledge of consumer law, others are swayed by the lies told by the likes of Crapbot, and some, like the one in the recent BeauBrummie farce, are just as bent as a nine bob note and would rule in favour of big business if the CCA was a copy of the Beano. The CAB will not mention enforceability if you consult them now, never mind five years ago. To them, anyone in "high" finance always has their figures correct to the nearest farthing, and you, the lowly debtor, must pay what you "owe" even if it means selling all of your body organs to the highest bidder. CAB have their uses, and many of their volunteers are genuine and honest, but cases such as yours will get better advice from CAG. CAG didn't invent the Consumer Credit Act 1974, it has always been there, but few people have ever been informed of its consequences until this site filled the gap. SH

Carter has obviously managed to get Judgment in Default here, so all you can do is apply to have the Judgment set aside. See here - Debt Factsheets - How to set aside a Judgment in the County Court You will need a good reason as to why you think the judgment should be set aside (who lost the papers?), and a realistic chance of submitting a successful defence. Have you seen the agreement relating to this alleged debt? Did you ever receive a default notice? SH

Do NOT offer these cretins ANY money. Firstly, they are not entitled to it, and secondly, doing so will restart the Limitation clock which will need to kick in at some stage if you are ever to get rid of them for good. I must admit I have yet to completely work out what Crapbot's algorithm is in deciding who gets taken to court and who just gets the endless threat letters. Obviously, they hunt out property owners but there is more to it than that. Here, they have decided to issue the silly threats. However, this last letter is one I have not seen before, and reads more like a suicide note. If they believed they could go to court and get judgment for the full alleged amount why would they be offering "discounts"? It may be that they have given up the ghost on this and are trying one last play to con something out of you. Certainly that is what these letters mean when they come from Clownell. You really only have two choices. You can ignore this as it isn't even relevant to anything pertaining to your case, or you can go on the attack and launch complaints based on the phantom £3000 which has now been added to the alleged account. This may give you the chance to escalate it to the FOS and relieve Crapbot of another £500, and it will certainly allow you to complain to the OFT. It is really up to you how much time you have to play games with these clowns. SH

N1 is the standard court claim form which needed a response. Did you respond to it? N30 is Judgment for Claimant. What happened after you received the N1? Did you acknowledge service or submit a defence? Was there a hearing? SH

There is not enough information in your post to enable us to give accurate advice. What are these "court papers"? Are they just threats or an actual N1? If you were served with an N1 in September Carter will have Judgment in Default by now. Please tell us EXACTLY what these papers are, when you received them, and what has happened, in chronological order. SH