I wouldn't be so optimistic. If you had to pay the unnecessary allocation questionnaire, what else cannot happen? Think about the cases lost. Don't assume the judge is wise and knowledgeable, prepare your hearing as if the judge is on your LL's side and totally ignorant. You must show to the judge that you must be right and if he lets the LL win, he is against the law himself. Don't take anything for granted until you get the money.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/residential-commercial-lettings/151082-tds-case-outcomes-links.html This post has not been updated for a while, but is quite enough. And here is another case lost: TDS Case Lost !!! - Going to Appeal - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums I don't know any other case lost, but if you search this forum you can find a few other cases won. BTW, if you want a formal copy of the Parliamentary debates, you can buy one from the TSO online shop, £4.

To HMKHB: This is from my document sent to the court: "To clarify what should be done regarding tenancies started and deposits paid before 6 April 2007, the claimant provides the following documents from various sources to show that “deposits paid before 6 April 2007 must be protected if the tenancies are renewed after that date” is a well-established and generally accepted rule: a. Parliamentary debates [2006-07]: Draft Housing (Tenancy Deposit Schemes) Order 2007: Wednesday 7 March 2007 . Also available in hardcopies: ISBN 13 9780215784735, Publisher: TSO (The Stationery Office). The document clearly shows the promoter’s intention of how to deal with deposits paid before 6 April 2007. See page 10, under column number 16. House of Commons General Committee on Delegated Legislation b. Frequently asked questions about Tenancy Deposit Protection: by the Department for Communities and Local Government . Treatment of deposits at the end of the tenancy - Housing - Communities and Local Government c. Tenancy Deposit Protection: a Guide for Landlords, by the Royal Borough of Kingston upon Thames . See page 1. http://www.kingston.gov.uk/tenancy_deposit_protection_landlords_print_version.pdf d. Housing Act 2004 Guidance - Tenancy Deposit Protection Schemes - A Guide for Landlords and Tenants, by Decent and Safe Homes (DASH) East Midlands . http://www.eastmidlandsdash.org.uk/docs/TDP%20Booklet%20A4.pdf e. Tenancy deposits – fact sheet, by Citizens Advice, an operating name of The National Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux . See page 3. http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/h_tenancy_deposits.pdf f. Tenancy Deposit Protection Frequently Asked Questions, by the Residential Landlords Association . See Q 51." RLA : Tenancy Deposit Scheme : Frequently Asked Questions To anticrisp: My claim was a part 8 claim which used a simplified and procedure and is required by the HMCourt. http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/docs/infoabout/housing/section-214-application.doc There is no upper limit for the amount of your claim. Read the civil procedure rules part 8 if you want more about the procedure. PART 8 - ALTERNATIVE PROCEDURE FOR CLAIMS

Hi HMKHB, In my case "did the fact that you are no longer a tenant come up" the judge knew I moved out in August, but he still made the order. Don't worry. "Did you "pay" your deposit before April 2007?" Yes, but I won. Explain to the judge in your hearing with evidence. That should be fine

UPDATE: I won the case today! The landlady didn't show up in the hearing, so the judge made the order without her. The hearing lasted no more than ten minutes. The judge asked me a few questions about the deposit and the agreement. The only thing the landlady argued was the deposit was paid before 6 April 2007. The judge hesitated a little bit but after I showed him the parliament debate and the FAQ from the department's webpage, he totally agreed that my deposit should have been protected. The judge did asked whether the landlady had returned my deposit, she didn't. The order will be sent to me and the landlady in a few days. The judge ordered that in 14 days the landlady must repay my deposit, plus 3 times of that amount and the court fee, which sum up to nearly £6,900. The judge also mentioned that because the landlady didn't come today, she might apply for a rehearing. So I still need to keep all the documents and evidence. But the judge also said that she couldn't make a defence. Anyway I'm quite happy with the outcome. Now the next thing is to get the money into my pockets. Good luck with all the others! Thanks a lots to all the people who have contributed to this great site and involved in discussing my case! I couldn't win without your support! I'll write down my experience if anyone wants.

Finally received a letter from the court yesterday. The file has been served to the defendant, blah blah, 30 minutes on 24.Nov have been allocated for the hearing which will start at 10:30. Also received a letter from the landlady the day before. She now realised that it was her fault not protecting the deposit, possibly after the court's notice. She offered a "fair compromise" which deducts about £700 instead of almost all the deposit. NO WAY, my reply.

I sent an email to the court this morning checking the status of my case. I got a reply within 1 hour: "Your case has been issued and the file is currently with the District Judge for further instructions. You shall hear in 10 working days." Continue to wait... bored...

Allocation Questionnaire doesn't apply to part 8 claims. In the civil procedure rules 8.9© "the claim shall be treated as allocated to the multi-track and therefore Part 26 does not apply". However, in the civil procedure rules 8.1(3): "The court may at any stage order the claim to continue as if the claimant had not used the Part 8 procedure and, if it does so, the court may give any directions it considers appropriate." Maybe the judge decided to change the claim from part 8 to part 7. Or simply the judge made a mistake. I agree with help me kick his butt, you'd better call the court to make it clear.

From the landlordzone, posted by Impartial Advice in thread (page 7) TDS Landlord or Agent - LandlordZONE Forums Impartial Advice's posts: 1 "Hi everybody new to this and skeptical usually about DIY experts throwing their weight around in cyberspace with off the cuff advice but some good information here... congrats! Very interested in this post. Have similar case (LL/LA responsibility dispute) and going to court on thursday with client. There are slightly more complications including claims of landlord residency but will, if time permits, try to update this thread after the case and give more information on the case." 2 "Landlord and agent responded by letter requesting hearing in their absence claiming defence of (among irrelvent things) the landlord being resident. They have been arguing just the oppisite for the last 2 months stating the AST exists (if landlord is resident cannot create AST)!! Back from court. Judge ajourned for 14 days and is requesting LL & LA attend. Judge reluctant to impose sanction while landlord claiming to be resident. Landlord stays at the property approx 3 days a month so will struggle to prove it is his 'main or only' residence. The judge did not raise any issues abour who's responsibility it is after pointed out that clients contract with landlord via agency. Being clever I described it as 'taking your car to garage and it not being repaired properly. Claim is against garage owner not mechanic although the owner is welcome to sack the mechanic'. Went down OK. Resume hearing in 14 days... will update if wanted??" 3 "Just update from previous post on this thread. Hearing eventually last week, won and tenant awarded £2070. Deposit to be returned + 3x sanction for non compliance with TDS and £150 costs. Arguments for residency thrown out. Interestingly DJudge confirmed despite agent handling deposit it was DJ's opinion the landlord WAS liable for the protection and liable for the penalty. Also confirmed that N1 rather than part 8 procedure was the correct route in their eye's as there still seems to be some discussion over this in some areas."

Hi billy_79, Do you know the costs of this case (the tenant side, court fee, hearing fee etc.)? Did the defendants ask the tenant to pay their legal costs? Thank you very much.

I'm still waiting for the confirmation from the court. The £150 was just deducted from my account last Friday. You have got your deposit back, so what really matters now is how much you have paid (say the amount is a) and how much you are going to pay (say the amount is b). If you stop now, you lose what you have paid (a); but if you carry on, you may lose as well as win. if you lose, you lose a+b. if you win, you win 3X deposit + court fee-a-b; If b is not significant, I would say carry on. Theoretically, as long as the chance of winning is greater than (b)/(3X deposit + court fee), it is always worth fighting (this is only theoretically). And if you decide to carry on, the strategy should be: keeping the cost minimal; preparing well to maximise your chance of winning.

Before I started my claim, I asked the LA to provide me a witness statement which states the deposit has been held by the LL (as they told me). As the return, I promised I would not sue them. They did it. I think maybe you can do the same: ask a witness statement from the LA as the condition of removing them as co-defendant. I think you are doing the right thing. The case is simple, just don't let the judge be distracted from "non-compliance". So making the case as simple and focussed as possible should help.

I would say theoretically, you have 100% chance of winning. But actually it really depends on the judge. Have a look at this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/residential-commercial-lettings/151082-tds-case-outcomes-links.html The form you need is N208, this is for sure. Good luck!

I think in this case, the judge was definitely wrong. According to the Housing act 2004 section 214: (1) Where a tenancy deposit has been paid in connection with a shorthold tenancy, the tenant or any relevant person (as defined by section 213(10)) may make an application to a county court on the grounds— (a) that the initial requirements of an authorised scheme (see section 213(4)) have not, or section 213(6)(a) has not, been complied with in relation to the deposit; or (b) that he has been notified by the landlord that a particular authorised scheme applies to the deposit but has been unable to obtain confirmation from the scheme administrator that the deposit is being held in accordance with the scheme. Since it was clear that "a tenancy deposit has been paid in connection with a shorthold tenancy" in this case, and there is nothing in the law says that "there can be no claim after a tenancy has ended", the tenant should be able to claim and the judge shouldn't dismiss the case using the reason he/she gave.

Hi, Yes I think you are right, we should keep each other informed. I'll post when I get new information. Good luck with your case!

Updates: The landlady refused to admit her fault in her reply to my LBA. I filed a claim this morning. I used n208 form and ed999's wording (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/residential-commercial-lettings/126261-tds-court-claims-wording.html). As required by the CPR, I also filed a bunch of evidence, including a witness statement from the agents. The court fee was £150. Now I'm waiting for the confirmation from the court.

It should be done through N208, as far as I know.

I'm preparing the letter before action now. I would like to give the landlady the last chance by offering an option: return the full amount of my deposit and never ask me any money in connection to the tenancy, the flat and its belongings. In exchange, I'll waive my right to claim the TDS case in the court . Is it OK? Any suggestions on the wording? Thanks in advance.

. Thanks! Anyway the discussion is very useful. Lesson 1, I think I must make it very clear to the judge when I file my claim. Lesson 2, I think I know how to do so now.

Yes. I agree. Things may be a little bit more complicated than you thought. We rented the flat two and a half years ago. I paid all the deposit at that time (the first contract was joint with only one other people, my wife). It was paid through my bank account. Then this March, the Polish girl joined. We agreed that she did not need to pay the deposit to the landlady to make things simple. Instead. She paid me one month rent as deposit and she took it when she left. In any sense, the money held by the landlady was not paid collectively, but individually by me. The whole amount came from my account directly to the agents' account. I can even show that it was in my saving account for more than 6 months. And the money is truly mine. I am not greedy, I claim only what I have paid. I think the thing is whether I can prove this or not. That is why I wanted the statement from the agents. Hope I've made my points clear.

I'm a bit confused. Here is my thoughts: If under a joint tenancy agreement, individul tenant can claim his portion in a TDS case, as you said, I can claim my own portion. Then the problem is boiled down to how much is my portion. Although a default 1/3 seems no problem, but it is not always the case because how to pay the deposit is decided by the joint tenants. For example, the one takes bigger room may pay more deposit. Now I am trying to prove that my portion is 100% of the deposit. If this is the case and accepted in the court, then I should be able to claim the full amount. If under a joint tenancy agreement, all the tenants must claim together. Then there is no way for me to claim alone. I must find the polish girl. I don't know which case applies...

Thanks but sorry for not stating it clearly. My intension to ask the agents to make the statement is to avoid joint claim. If the deposit was paid solely by me, then I should be the only one who has the right to claim. Then I don't need to find the Polish girl. Is it right? The money was paid through bank transfer to the agents. I think I can find the record in my bank statement. Maybe it also helps.

I plan to ask the agents to write a statement that I paid all the deposit, the money has nothing to do with the other people listed as tenants (that is the truth). Dose this help in my situation? Thanks.

Update: The landlady replied again, not longer denying her fault: "If you want to threaten me about not protecting your deposit, then you may want to take that up with ***(the agents) as they did not advise me to do change the arrangement as I stated previoulsy, the scheme came out after you moved in." I've replied that I'll sue her not the agents and I'll prepare the documents for the court.

Just received the landlady's email, confirmed that the deposit was not protected: "No your deposit was not in that scheme as you started the tenancy before the new scheme commenced." Of cause this is wrong! Can I claim part of the depost? I mean not counting the Polish girl, just me and my wife as the claimants and we claim 2/3 of the amount? Many thanks!