Hi Bonus77, Unless the rules have changed they are lying to you. I had a successful claim with Nat west, they then slapped me with more charges after the claim was settled in full which of course led me to take out a further claim which they also repaid in full. Infact on Saturday I got a mini statement and since the 29th October they have taken £156.00 in charges actually causing me to go over my overdraft limit!!!!!!!!!! Needless to say I am for the 3rd time going to claim them back.

Great stuff. Thanks:D

Hi 120805, Please do not be so hard on yourself. Firstly with regards to the OFT, just tell them how it is - thats all I did. Just a simply worded straight to the point letter stating that you have requested documents from the lender as is your right and they have failed to comply which you believe means that they are commiting an offence. Enclose copies of all your correspondence with Cap 1 when you send the letter. They are not here to judge us as to why we want this info - it is pure and simply our right to have it should we want it, for whatever that reason may be. I had a letter from the OFT regarding my complaint about british gas loans and there was absolutaly no suggestion of disproval or evidence of them being judgemental. On the contrary, I really felt that they were taking this complaint very seriously indeed. Good luck, and instead of feeling ashamed you should feel proud because you are standing up against these bully boys who have made our lives miserable! Lets not forget that in some extremely sad cases people have ended their lives because of their debt problems and the very same financial institutions that should have helped these people instead added to their misery and some may say should even be held accountable! Lets get the Bug*ers.

Thanks villafan and paulwlton for your reply's. So it is actually the same wether its a loan company or a credit card - thanks for that paul.

Thank you so very much Peter, I was hoping I would be able to rely on you and I was right!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope you have a good long weekend. Lynne

PLEASE.Is there anyone who can tell me if this letter is ok??????????? [quote=weaver440;851072]Hi, have had my agreement copy from british gas (damn and blast them!!) and it took them much longer than it should have. Am wanting to sent this letter now tho for return of charges and removal of default, bear in mind they have already had the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), Pre lim and the LBA. Can someone have a look at it and let me know if it is ok or am I missing some vital info or making demands that I cannot enforce. All comments very much appreciated:D Dear Sir/Madam I have finally received a copy of the agreement that refers to the above account after weeks and weeks of unwanted telephone calls from you and letters sent to yourselves reminding you that, as a result of your non compliance of the Consumer Credit Act you have committed a criminal offence. Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.78 (1) (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit you were legally bound to produce this document within 12 days of the request being made which you didn’t so as a result you have defaulted on this account, not only that you that put you in breach of the above Act. It is at this point that I ceased making payments which was my legal right to do so. I am advising you that you cannot take out a default on this account when you have already defaulted!!! You were then given another 1 Calendar month, which would have given you till the 26th April or there about to produce the documents but again you failed to comply with the Consumer Credit Act 1974, at which point you were committing a criminal offence. It took you no less than another 28 days before I received the documents! This is totally unacceptable! As you are aware I have already written to Trading Standards and the Office of Fair trading but so appalled am I by the way you have conducted yourselves that I am going to make a severe complaint to the Financial Services and my MP. Now that I have the requested documents I would like to bring my account up to date. What I require from you is a full statement of the account dated from 10/12/04 to today’s date. Furthermore, I demand that all charges and interest that has been added to this account from 8th March be removed and that the statement clearly shows this and as my letter dated 7th March requests that you refund all other charges which you have unlawfully levied from my account since 10/12/04. I also require the return of £10.00 costs (for having to send 9 letters recorded delivery regarding this account) IMPORTANT – Default Notice served under section 87 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Regarding the default notice you issued - your letter dated 5 May 2007 ( a copy of which I enclose). I am advising you that you must remove this default notice. As previously mentioned you were already in default before issuing this default notice – you cannot issue a default when you have yourselves defaulted.( Some legislation quoted here would be useful if anyone knows what it is, Peter Bard if you are there) Please remove this default immediately and supply me with written confirmation that you have done this. Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history since 10/12/04 which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please confirm this in your response. Please be advised then that you have 14 days to respond positively to the above after that there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim.

Johnny, these banking people are really stupid, and if there not then they can certainly pretend to be when it suits them - I would send 2 seperate cheques, write on the back what the cheque is for so as to leave them with no possible doubt!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone? Please?

In had full return of charges from Nat West but incurred more charges after putting in a claim. Once my claim was settled I sent Nat West a very nice letter saying that since they admitted no liabilty to the previous claim but would return the charges as a gesture of goodwill and, as they stated it was not in their interest to see this go to court, how about they return the £120 in charges that they once again have unlawfully taken from my account, which they duly did without so much as a teeny weeny argument! Go and get them back - and keep asking for them back!

HI, OFT address I wrote to is Enquiries Unit, Office of Fair Trading, Fleetbank house, 2-6 Salisbury Square, London, EC4Y 8JX and as for the Trading standards i think every one has there own regional office that they should communicate with. In my case it was north Yorshire. If thats your region let me know and i will post it.

Hi, have had my agreement copy from british gas (damn and blast them!!) and it took them much longer than it should have. Am wanting to sent this letter now tho for return of charges and removal of default, bear in mind they have already had the SAR, Pre lim and the LBA. Can someone have a look at it and let me know if it is ok or am I missing some vital info or making demands that I cannot enforce. All comments very much appreciated:D Dear Sir/Madam I have finally received a copy of the agreement that refers to the above account after weeks and weeks of unwanted telephone calls from you and letters sent to yourselves reminding you that, as a result of your non compliance of the Consumer Credit Act you have committed a criminal offence. Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.78 (1) (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit you were legally bound to produce this document within 12 days of the request being made which you didn’t so as a result you have defaulted on this account, not only that you that put you in breach of the above Act. It is at this point that I ceased making payments which was my legal right to do so. I am advising you that you cannot take out a default on this account when you have already defaulted!!! You were then given another 1 Calendar month, which would have given you till the 26th April or there about to produce the documents but again you failed to comply with the Consumer Credit Act 1974, at which point you were committing a criminal offence. It took you no less than another 28 days before I received the documents! This is totally unacceptable! As you are aware I have already written to Trading Standards and the Office of Fair trading but so appalled am I by the way you have conducted yourselves that I am going to make a severe complaint to the Financial Services and my MP. Now that I have the requested documents I would like to bring my account up to date. What I require from you is a full statement of the account dated from 10/12/04 to today’s date. Furthermore, I demand that all charges and interest that has been added to this account from 8th March be removed and that the statement clearly shows this and as my letter dated 7th March requests that you refund all other charges which you have unlawfully levied from my account since 10/12/04. I also require the return of £10.00 costs (for having to send 9 letters recorded delivery regarding this account) IMPORTANT – Default Notice served under section 87 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Regarding the default notice you issued - your letter dated 5 May 2007 ( a copy of which I enclose). I am advising you that you must remove this default notice. As previously mentioned you were already in default before issuing this default notice – you cannot issue a default when you have yourselves defaulted.( Some legislation quoted here would be useful if anyone knows what it is, Peter Bard if you are there) Please remove this default immediately and supply me with written confirmation that you have done this. Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history since 10/12/04 which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please confirm this in your response. Please be advised then that you have 14 days to respond positively to the above after that there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim.

Hi, Am wanting to send of SAR to mint for statements but I also want to include in this letter a request for the true signed copy of the agreement under the CCA 1974 contained within s.78 (1) CCA but the s.77 (1) that I have quoted when writing to my loan Co British Gas refers to fixed sum credit - this isn't fixed term credit ( is it) ? So does anyone know how I should word it or what sections of the CCA I need to refer to in the case of Credit Cards when requesting a true signed copy of the agreement? Thanks.

ncf355, thanks. Do you have any thoughts on wether i should/could issue a claim against them for non compliance and therefor the return of all monies paid or do you think a letter asking for the return of my money with the threat of taking out a claim against them would do the job? Normally I would be more than content with the non enforcement of the debt but british gas have rattled my cage to such an extent that I have covered myself in war paint and will not be happy to give in until I have a scalp or two!!!! Any comments appreciated.

That is exactly my feelings conchy joe. When CAN you say its all done and dusted. I think there should be something which compels company's by law to say either "Yes we have the agreement but have not produced it for reasons blah blah blah" or "No, we do not have the agreement". I still do not know if british gas loans have my agreement? So in theory I could take out a claim against them for the return of all monies paid at which time they could turn round and say "nah nah nah nah nah, we've got the agreement":eek: Ok, so the courts won't be very happy but thats all, where would that leave me? I want to know if they have it or not!!!!

Hi Zubo and Peter, Thanks for your responses, if you take a look at my thread British Gas loan charges it goes into far more detail, I posted on this thread because this is where everyone seems to hang out:rolleyes: I find responses come alot better here.

Thank you to everyone for your replies. Rightly or wrongly I sent a letter on Fiday basically saying " I am in receipt of your letter regarding the above account. Your Company has had 51 days to produce the documentation requested and I have sent you several letters requesting such. If you have this documentation then please explain to me why it was not sent when requested back on the 7th March 2007? Could it be that you do not have it? I have been extremely patient but unfortunately my patience has run out. In light of the fact that you have had plenty of time, if I have not received all the documentation that was asked for in my original letter dated 7th March 2007 within 7 working days from your receipt of this letter then I will be taking out a claim against you for the return of all monies paid" I am now getting letters fron 2 different dept, British Gas and AA, both are at the same address! Anyway, my hunch is I will not get the signed agreement and I have threatened them with a court claim to get all monies paid back so my question is now that I have actually made the threat, can I do that, and what happens if once I do take out a claim against them they produce the documents - I know I would be liable for the loan etc but wouldn't a judge go absolutaley ballistic with them? I am really sorry if I am being dim but I know I do have a problem grasping things sometimes. once the 7 xtra days I have given them is up what should I do? would taking them to court be the next correct step?

I surely can - its AA Personal Finance Ltd, City House, City Road, Chester. CH88 3AN

Thank you PFord and peter for your replies - not what I wanted to hear but hayho, such is life. There is one last thing though that is puzzling me - I ask them for my agreement - they have not sent it after 30 days so they have committed an offence, yes? One of my letters tho has now gone to a different dept and that dept apologises and 48 days later assures me that they will order my agreement to be sent to me. My question is, how long am I supposed to give them? Another 30 days from them saying they have ordered copies? Do i then complain again only to get a letter from another dept promising to send me the docs, am I then to give them 30 days too? My point is how long do you give them to produce the document before you know they don't have it and especially if they are not going to admit they don't have it! Do you understand where I am coming from - surely this is exactly what the 30 rule is about, giving what is considered a reasonable amount of time for documents to be produced and if they are not then thats it, tough if afterwards the person says " but we do have the documents - look, here they are". If they have them now then they had them 48+ days ago which is when they should have produced them. AAGGHHHHHHHHHH desperation. lynne

Someone please tell me rippedofagain is wrong!!!GULP! The thing is the account was not in default at the start of this. I make my monthly payments over the phone ( don't get me wrong there has been a couple of times when there has been missed or late payments) but I had my handbag stolen along with everything in it and so on the day that I was due to make another payment I rang them and told them that it would be late and why! Over the next couple of days I had a letter charging me and this is when all the calls started. When all my cards were replaced I made the agreed monthly payment minus the charges but so incensed was I by this stage that it is when I started my quest. The loan monthly repayments did not stop until they had failed to comply with my request, then legally they had no right to persue the debt and nor did I acknowledge the debt.Surely it was they who defaulted, not me, I was only responding to their default:( What about the fact that if a copy of the agreement fails to be sent it negates any notice of default being served as required by the conditions of the consumer credit act 1974 Also, if this statement is correct " if the documentation were to be produced, you (the lender) will be aware the default notice serves to cancel any original terms and conditions. Sorry for my doubting you rippedofagain, I may be grasping at straw here but gotta give it my best shot, I am sure you can understand:)

Well, I now need some serious advice if there is anyone who can help. You can see from my previous post how far things had come, well I got a letter dated 11th from AA personal Finance ( underwriters for British gas Loans I think) from there customer care dept. Basically the letter is a response to my Harrasment letter sent to British Gas but because it is a complaint they have just looked at it as an isolated letter and passed it on to the complaints dept. I have responded to the letter advising them that there is a lack of communication at there end as this is not just about harrassment - the account is in dispute I suggest Mr. so n' so go and check the records! Anyway, yesterday I had another letter from Mr. so n' so at AA personal Finance, again apologising that I am still unhappy about the repeated phone calls and that I still remain unhappy about there service!!! He is going to order me a copy of the original application form and agreement and also statement of account!!!!!!!!!!!!! What I want to clarify is - if they do indeed produce the documents at this late stage is it basically tough *itty for them, can they continue to persue this? They had thier chance to supply it when asked for and their 30 days were up on the 26th April for goodness sake!!!!!!!!!!! Can I still maintain that I am not liable as they did not comply within the lawful specified time period and have therefore committed an offence or will I have to continue paying like nothing has happened? They have been such complete and utter pigs it will kill me to have to bow out now and start paying them again - I was even getting ready to demand all payments made back so angry am I with them!!!!!!! Please, one desperate person here so all help very much appreciated. For more info on the background please take alook at my thread british gas loan charges. Ta Lynne

Well, I now need some serious advice if there is anyone who can help. You can see from my previous post how far things had come, well I got a letter dated 11th from AA personal Finance ( underwriters for British gas Loans I think) from there customer care dept. Basically the letter is a response to my Harrasment letter sent to British Gas but because it is a complaint they have just looked at it as an isolated letter and passed it on to the complaints dept. I have responded to the letter advising them that there is a lack of communication at there end as this is not just about harrassment - the account is in dispute I suggest Mr. so n' so go and check the records! Anyway, yesterday I had another letter from Mr. so n' so at AA personal Finance, again apologising that I am still unhappy about the repeated phone calls and that I still remain unhappy about there service!!! He is going to order me a copy of the original application form and agreement and also statement of account!!!!!!!!!!!!! What I want to clarify is - if they do indeed produce the documents at this late stage is it basically tough *itty for them, can they continue to persue this? They had thier chance to supply it when asked for and their 30 days were up on the 26th April for goodness sake!!!!!!!!!!! Can I still maintain that I am not liable as they did not comply within the lawful specified time period and have therefore committed an offence or will I have to continue paying like nothing has happened?:o They have been such complete and utter pigs it will kill me to have to bow out now and start paying them again - I was even getting ready to demand all payments made back so angry am I with them!!!!!!! Please, one desperate person here so all help very much appreciated.

Absolutaly right! Now that I have sent my letter of and given them 10 days to confirm that they have carried out my requests and written the debt of and refunded monies paid that is exactly what I am going to do.

Hi Joe, Here is a letter I did to my loan company - I took it from 2 letters I found oo 2 different threads, unfortunately I can.t remember who. Hope this helps. Also just to say that I have written to trading standards and the office of fair trading making a complaint about British Gas personal Loans. I also sent copies of all my letters and emails with this final letter. Good Luck. Account No. *********************** Dear Ms ********* IMPORTANT – YOU SHOULD READ THIS CAREFULLY Consumer Credit Act (1974) As you are aware, I have written to you on numerous occasions requesting that you supply me with information regarding the above account (see enclosed correspondence), which is my legal right under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. You had 12 days, plus an additional 30 days inclusive of holidays and weekends to comply by sending me all the information requested. Accordingly, as a result of your failure to comply with my request I am unable to acknowledge any debt to your company. Your non-compliance with my request means that your company has committed an offence under Section 77 (4) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, summarily punishable by a Level 4 fine on the standard scale. I also understand that under the Act, due to your failure to comply with my statutory request, you or any acting agent are unable to enforce an agreement so I have therefore ceased making payments and not only that will seek to recover any payments made to date A credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and is therefore a complete defence to any court claim that is issued. Please take note that any legal action you may contemplate will be vigorously defended and contested. Furthermore your actions arguably do not comply with the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) Debt Collection Guidelines of July 2003, in that you have ‘communicated with [me] in an inaccurate or misleading manner (section 2.1) by ‘presenting information in that it creates a false or misleading impression’. Administration of Justice Act 1970 and Protection from Harassment Act 1997 Your operatives have sought to contact me on a number of occasions despite my constant requests that all correspondence should be in writing. I now consider that in light of your failures as mentioned above, and reference my letter to you regarding telephone harassment any telephone calls from you will continue to constitute harassment and so from this date any further calls to me will be reported to the Police. In addition you are in breach of the OFT’s July 2003 guidelines in that you are wrongly pursuing [me] contrary to Section 2.8(i). Data Protection Act (1998) Another worrying facet of this whole case is the threat of unlawful dissemination of my data by your company to a third party. Under the Data Protection Act I have principled rights in that: (Schedule I) 1. Personal data shall be processed fairly and lawfully. 2. Personal data shall be obtained only for one or more specified and lawful purposes, and shall not be further processed in any manner incompatible with that purpose or those purposes. (Schedule II) 1. The subject has given his consent. 2. The processing is necessary “for the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party.” The fact that you have not provided me with a copy of the agreement negates any Notice of Default being served on me, as required by the conditions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Incidentally, if the documentation were to be produced, you will be aware the default notice serves to cancel any original terms and conditions and as such cancels any right you or my creditor might have, implied or otherwise, to share my information without my consent. I would then be looking to receive substantial compensation from your firm for this breach of my rights. What I require I require you with immediate effect to ensure that all data held by you regarding the alleged agreement/debt is removed from any and all Credit Reference Agency database. Ensure that all data held by you regarding me is fully destroyed. Ensure that no further telephone calls are made to me, or my place of work. Ensure that all correspondence is made in writing. I require written confirmation of the above together with a quarterly statement that no data has been processed by you regarding me. Failure to comply Failure to comply with my request under the Data Protection Act 1998 will result in the matter being referred to the Information Commissioner. Failure to comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 will cause me to refer the matter to the Office of Fair Trading, and Trading Standards. Failure to comply with the requirements Office of Fair Trading guidelines will lead to a report being submitted. Continued telephone contact will generate a complaint for harassment to the police. If you fail to comply with any or all of the above I reserve the right to take action against you without further contact. I expect to hear from you within 10 working days from the date of this letter. Any further action on your part or that of my alleged original creditor pursuant to your and/or their breaches of my statutory rights will be taken as a willful act of harassment and each instance will be reported to the police. Yours faithfully,

Hi, Just to update, its been a busy couple of weeks and alot has happened but in a nut shell this is it 1/ 7 March sent lst letter requesting return of loan charges - (no response) except constant phone calls from their collection dept! 2/ 12 March sent 2nd letter (LBA) - (no response) except constant phone calls from their collection dept!!!! 3/ 27th April sent Harrassment letter telling them that their continued harrassment of me by telephone puts them in breach of section 40 of the administration of justice act 1970 and the protection from harrassment act 1997 - (no response) except, yes wait for it - constant phone calls from theit collections dept!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 4/ 30th April sent letter advising them that as a result of their non compliance they have commited a criminal offence under the CCA - (no response) except constant phone calls from their collection dept!!!!!!!!!!! 5/ 1st May sent letter to the OFT ( along with a copy of all the comminication from me to British Gas) outlining the case and making a severe complaint - (as of yet no response) 6/ 4 May sent a copy of the letter sent to the OFT to the Office of fair trading. 7/ 14 May sent my last letter to BG basically quoting the CCA 1974 and how by not complying they have commited an offence and as a result I am no loger liable and not only that I will be seeking to have all monies paid returned to me!!!! Also to advise them that they are in breach of the Administration of justice and protection from harrassment acts by their constant calling and if i receive another call from them on receipt of the letter I will call the police! I have also re-iterated the DPA 1998 and confirmed that I require them to destroy all data about me that they hold to be destroyed, that there are no more calls, that all correspondence is in writing and that they send me written confirmation to say that this has been done. So guys there it is, will keep you updated.

Hi Smoothy, Have just come across your thread, how come no more updates? It was making for interesting reading, hope every thing is ok? How about an update?