Seems very strange but apologies for hijacking the thread due to my ignorance of the intricacies of the English NHS! My referral costs would be inordinate! Putting aside the referral costs/systems; did the gynaecologist do the procedure as you mentioned it was a "post op swelling". If that is the case, then it is custom to refer back to the surgeon/speciality who undertook the procedure as it might be a complication for surgery. However, could the re-attendance/complication rate also be a factor? The surgeon does not what the OP to mess up their statistics so discharge back to the GP for referral about a different issue altogether????

This is very backwards and a total waste of time and effort. Not to mention the frustration from all parties. I'm a nurse specialist and refer daily to other specialties/specialists - even those outwith my own NHS board. What's a referral fee? P.S. I'm in Scotland.

Just to clarify a few points.... Did casualty doctor think it was a fracture as they sent you to the fracture clinic or was it because they thought it was soft tissue injury? Fracture clinic (was this a orthopaedic doctor) reviewed your X-ray and said it was a sprain/deep bruising? Follow up was cancelled because of your flare of MS? Was this follow up with fracture clinic or one of the orthopaedic doctors?

I'm not a dentist but have had a fair bit of dental work done myself. I can see where jags in the mouth are difficult and if the dentist is telling the truth then I don't see any recourse from your complaint as it is a known complication. On the other hand, a complaint might make him more proactive in informing everyone of the risks of the anaesthetic jags before carrying it out. This is part and parcel of informed consent afterall. Ultimately if a complaint is the route you want to go down then click here to be taken to the dental complaints section on nhs.uk P.S. Hope you are feeling better

Cheers sidewinder, that was the consultation document I linked to above but that was in 2008. I was wondering if they had gone ahead with any changes to legislation after the consultation ended but it appears not. Thanks anyway.

That's my take on it papasmurf as revised Acts on the legislation.gov.uk website are current and applicable. Re: the practicing and registered component, I intend to send a photocopy of my Nursing and Midwifery Council PIN card and a letter from my employer stating I am employed in my capacity as a nurse.

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum but thought this was the most apt. Received a notification of jury service (not a citation) informing me that my name has been selected for future selection as a juror in the Sheriff or High Court. I have personal reasons why I do not want to undertake jury service and I am aware that I could write to the Clerk of Court and ask for excusal but this is at their discretion and may not be granted. Therefore, I am looking to use my status as a nurse to be granted an excusal. The Scottish Courts Service website is vague and doesn't specifically mention excusal for occupations. The CAB website mentions occupational excusal but not nurses specifically. Did a search on Google and came upon the Law Reform (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Scotland) Act 1980 which under Part III, Group D mentions nurses. The advice from the RCN is that nurses can't be excused "since changes to legislation in 2004". However, I think this refers to Schedule 33 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 which does not apply to Scotland and the advice from the RCN applies only to those nurses from England and Wales. I can't see any superseding legislation which has rescinded the provisions in the Law Reform (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Scotland) Act 1980 and indeed came across the Scottish Government's consultation from 2009 titled "The Modern Scottish Jury in Criminal Trials" which was consulting on changes to excusal of occupations from juries. I'd appreciate any confirmation from any of you learned folk that I can apply for excusal due to my status as a nurse. Thanks in advance. Panthro

Probably the exact same as you. I'm not faulting you in anyway! You must have been distraught with (excuse the French), your head up your arse. I will read your whole thread and comment (or indeed apologise) if need be.

This is only the information that particular police force holds about you, this is a subject access request under s.7 of the Data Protection Act. THIS IS NOT A CRB. The Association of Chief Police Officers: "Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 states that a 'data subject' (the person about whom the personal data refers) is entitled, upon written request, to be informed whether or not personal data is held or processed about them. This service is not a pre-employment vetting service and applicants wishing to apply for subject access as a condition of employment will be directed to the Criminal Records Bureau or Disclosure Scotland." You are correct however that this might allow the OP access to the information help by the police.

Do you have a link for this information? The CRBs own website states: "CRB checks cannot be obtained by members of the public directly but are only available to organisations and only for those professions, offices, employments, work and occupations listed in the Exceptions Order to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974." Would this just be a request under the Data Protection Act for your information for that particular police force? Do criminal records even come under DPA? I'm not sure...

I'm not going to bleat on how bad it is for us nurses nor defend appalling care but the majority of us really do care about our patients but find it difficult with poor staffing, no equipment or support from above. Also we as a profession do not support each other as well as others such as the fire fighters. We are not greedy. We are not asking for extra money but for the facilities, resources and staffing to provide safe, effective and evidenced-based care to our patients. Any mention of the word "strike" and we are labelled as uncaring and willingly putting patients in danger, also known as a guilt trip. The trusts (and health boards in Scotland) are there to defend themselves. As employees we are directed by them especially in the current financial climate (very sad I know). The Sheriff in this recent Fatal Accident Inquiry (similar to a Coroner's Inquest in England and Wales) said: "It was clear to me from a very early stage that there was, at the very least, potentially, a conflict of interest in those seeking to represent NHS Fife and the various doctors and nurses. I raised this even before the Inquiry started and again several times after it was in progress. I was constantly assured by Counsel that there was no such conflict and that Counsel would and could continue to represent all of these parties. Eventually, after the doctors had given evidence, solicitors appeared seeking to represent, separately, the interests of the doctors and the nurses. That was, in my view both appropriate and necessary from the point of view of the doctors and nurses." Unfortunately there are more nurses than not who will simply follow the lead of their employer when complaints arise. Very sad when our Code of Conduct expects us to be our patients advocates.

That's a very different situation from not being consulted at all. Regarding not being able to do anything, I'd disagree. Demanding a second opinion is one. Another is raising a court order. Both very difficult when emotions all over the place. I do plan to read glitterladys thread so I'm not as ill-informed as I am at the minute.

nolegion, apologies for not reading your entire post it is very comprehensive with lots of links to evidence etc. and deals with a wide range of issues branching out from the original post. As for recording conversations, as a nurse I would welcome that for the opposite reasons to your; aggressive bordering on the abusive relatives, patients denying we had told them something or fabricating details. I'd hope you'd agree (maybe you wouldn't) that most health care professionals are honest and open with their patients negating the need to record conversations. Basically, what I am getting at is that it works both ways. Indeed if it was to become common (recording GP consultations for instance) then the GP would be foolish not to offer the best evidence-based advice. Of course raises the question of would they release the tapes/transcripts. They can lose medical records so why not these? I'm just thinking out loud here

I am a moderator on a student nursing forum and this question pops up frequently. The advice I give to everyone as SarEl says is be honest, open and explain. 10 years is a long time and hopefully your employer will acknowledge that along with your reasons as to why you stole the money. Best of luck Panthro

You're quite correct, however it is best practise to involve the family in the decision making which is what NightOwl was getting at.

NightOwl I have read this thread and can I first start of by saying: you are a credit to the profession! If only us nurses stuck together and fought for patient care - like you have - rather than getting ourselves so stressed out that we end up off sick continuing the cycle of staff shortage. Our directorate is on a mad money saving mode at the minute. All bank has to be authorised by the lead nurse or her deputy and if authorised not for a full shift, i.e. we do 7.30 to 8pm but the bank nurse/auxiliary will do 9am to 7pm. We have to explain the reasons for requesting bank and go through each of the patients conditions to get authorisation. One nightshift, it was me, another RN and an auxiliary for 22 patients split between two wards. The night co-ordinator phoned to move the RN (incidentally to a ward with 17 patients) and I would get an auxiliary in return. I lost it and said not a chance and went into a rant about how busy it was, the dependency of the patients, the fact that it was my registration on the line blah blah. He still wanted them moved, so I told him that he better come to the ward for the keys and a handover as I wasn't taking charge of these patients on my own. He phoned me back to say that they had found someone 'extra' in MRU. Incidentally I phoned the MRU (to borrow something I think) later that night and whilst on the line I asked them on their bed status...they had 12 patients with 8 staff nurses and a charge nurse!!! The nurse I spoke to was "bored beyond belief!". So at the beginning of the night they had 10 nurses, one of whom was moved to the short ward, for 12 patients!!! I filled in a Datix (incident form) with those details...never have heard anything from it (as usual). I am known as the Datix King however, maybe they are a bit ****ed off?! Don't care though!! Although the moving staff from our ward seems to have halted...at the minute! Co-incidence? I'll wait until winter is over to confirm. Don't get my wrong I don't mind helping out other wards when they are stuck but not at the expense of my patients (robbing Peter to pay Paul). I'm not usually so rebellious but they made me do it! I doubt I would have carried out my threat but sounded good at the time. I admire nurses like you who truly put their patients first before themselves. Sorry for the waffling post!

That is absolutely ridiculous on so many fronts and the main issue seems to be (and is always!): communication. The NHS seriously lacks any communication outwith departments never mind other hospitals. Any patient transferred from another hospital should be 'clerked in' by the receiving wards doctor or sometimes nurse practitioner. This is the nurses responsibility to ensure happens. Orthopaedic surgery is inherently brutal to the body so the other hospital would want to ensure there was no infection such as MRSA that could potentially cause even more problems down the line. Re: the 'sidekick' (possibly a registrar or junior?) and his mistake. When I had complaints training we had the 3 Rs; regret, response and remedy. It was drilled into us to first apologise. A simple "we're really sorry" really does go a long way. I have to say that medical staff and especially surgeons (I'm stereotyping) are notorious for not saying sorry when things do go wrong. It aggravates me and I am a NHS monkey! It must be absolutely infuriating to you and I wouldn't blame you for getting a complaint letter in once his op is done and he is home.

I see you state you are back on your medication but as the formatting of the forum has gone a bit wonky using NHS computer and connectio and I cannot see the dates of your posts. Is this mean you are back on methylphenidate? Of interest, I was reading the SPC of Concerta XL and came up with these. Were these the reasons it wasn't prescribed? "The safety and efficacy of long-term use of methylphenidate has not been systematically evaluated in controlled trials. Methylphenidate treatment should not and need not, be indefinite. Methylphenidate treatment is usually discontinued during or after puberty. The physician who elects to use methylphenidate for extended periods (over 12 months) in children and adolescents with ADHD should periodically re-evaluate the long-term usefulness of the drug for the individual patient with trial periods off medication to assess the patient's functioning without pharmacotherapy." "Adults: Methylphenidate is not licensed for use in adults in ADHD. Safety and efficacy have not been established in this age group"

Sorry to hear of your/your husband's situation. I've been on the receiving end of cancelled surgery myself (although not as long as 8 days!) and the seemingly endless cycle of nil by mouth and then not. Has it happened yet? In systems I have worked (I'm a nurse) there is a receiving consultant who is reponsible for the care of the patients admitted from 9am that morning until 9am the following morning. If he is still waiting and getting no answers from the ward staff or the consultant on the ward round, find out who that is (your husbands consultant) and phone the hospital switchboard (should have a website) and ask to speak to his secretary. On a side note, he should NOT be fasting from midnight?! The guidelines state that plain water can be given up to 2 hours before most surgery. As they are unsure of the time of surgery, he should at the very least be able to drink until approx 6/7am depending on when the morning list starts. And the ward nurses should phone the theatre to enquire the likely time of surgery so they can decide whether to give him water on not. Sorry but fasting patients inapprorpriately is one of my every growing list of pet hates!

I agree with frankleg. The GP in my opinion (I'm a rheumatology nurse not a doctor) seems to have acted appropriately but of course I base this opinion on the limited information in your post. GPs are faced on a daily basis with people with complaints that may turn out down-the-line to be serious, e.g. malignancy. However GPs have to ensure that funds are spent appropriately (sounds cold I know) and patients do not undergo unnecessary (at the time) investigations. Your brother *might* have been diagnosed had he received a MRI immediately, however if everyone who presents to their GP with back pain received advanced imaging such as this the NHS would be bankrupt within weeks. You say he had "numerous checks and x-rays" prior to his MRI. This is appropriate in the situation. Not being a legal eagle - in any sense of the imagination - this might be total rubbish but the standard is "what a reasonable man would or wouldn't do". Again from your limited information, it would seem reasonable. From your details, the timescale to MRI does appear longer than normal (from my experience) but once again I don't know the ins and outs of your brothers visits to his GP or of his symptoms outwith the back pain that may have highlighted a condition other than mechanical back pain.

Hiya, I replied to your thread about your bank holidays. Sorry I can't help about the consultation aspect or your 'rights' in that regard. Does your trust have an Organisational Change Policy? Might be useful to have a peruse to see if they are operating within their own guidelines re: meeting with weekend workers. From your other thread, I realise you work 1 weekend in 3. As I said in my reply, public holidays (such as Christmas day) which fall on the weekend are not actually PH under Agenda for Change, i.e. it is classed as a normal Saturday or Sunday therefore you would not be entitled to hours in lieu (the underline emphasis is mine). 13.4 Staff required to work or to be on-call on a general public holiday are entitled to equivalent time to be taken off in lieu at plain time rates, in addition to the appropriate payment for the duties undertaken You would be entitled to the public holiday component of your leave entitlement however. Which for full time is 8 days. Although you cannot not work this Xmas day for instance (as it is not a PH), you would be entitled to take it as annual leave - with your employers consent of course. 13.7 Part-time workers’ public holiday entitlement shall be added to their annual leave entitlement, and they shall take public holidays they would normally work as annual leave. Agenda for Change Handbook

Hi I am aware this thread has been inactive for over a month but see you are still having issues on this issue in your "Consultation" thread where your employer is consulting changing so you work bank holidays etc. I'm a nurse (under AfC) so it peeked my interest! As I understand it, Christmas Day and Boxing day this year are not classed as Public Holidays as they fall on the weekend, but Monday 27th and Tuesday 28th are. For example, if I work Xmas day this year I will only get Saturday enhancements NOT PH. This is exactly why we get PH hours due to shift work where we aren't guaranteed the actual (under AfC) public holidays. As you are not working these PH that fall on a weekend then I think your employer would be correct in taking the PH hours off of you but I don't think this is laid down in AfC but I'm no expert. Are you actually in breach of your contract by not attending your rota'd days, i.e. weekends? Again, PH cannot fall on a weekend under AfC. P.S. Sorry I cannot help with the shift swapping. Seems unreasonable to me personally however.

Can I just clarify that the NHS is not, nor ever been a single organisation and GPs are not part of the NHS in any case. The £50 is for the time to get your records, your GP/consultant/lead clinician to search through them for anything that could be "damaging", and then the actual photocopying which can be a large task depending on the size of the recorsds (and I have experience of photocopying medical records!). You are free (without charge) to view your medical records. See http://http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/the-right-to-know/data-protection-act/access-to-health-records.html Anything done in hospital generally results in a letter going to your GP whatever trust. You are likely to have a more comprehensive record with him. I'd ask you to reconsider your decision to not have any dealings with the NHS. Best of luck.

Good point Steve, they don't even have the courtesy to send it first class! So why should I? Is it sad that I find it quite fun? Should the worst happen and it does go to court, suppose the JP would take kindly to me corresponding with them rather than ignoring, or would he?

They are relentless. Received a letter from the saying, had 7 days to appeal and that debt recovery agents were brought in. To correspond with debt agents despite me asking for them to substantiate their claim. This is the letter in response: I acknowledge receipt and refer to the above dated letter. The first I received notice from you claiming I owe you for this alleged debt was your letter dated the 21/02/08. The date of the ‘offence’ claimed by you in this letter was 20/11/2007 As in my letter dated 28/02/2008; I confirm I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question. However, I refute your allegation that I owe money to yourself, or your representatives. The laws of contract are implicitly clear. You HAVE to reclaim this alleged date from the driver, not the registered keeper. Should this matter proceed to court; the Justice will query why you have failed to prove who the driver was You (and your representatives) are acting unreasonably in this matter. I will ignore all correspondence from Hunter Forrest & Co and will make a criminal complaint under section 8 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 to my local police station I will only acknowledge correspondence from yourself (i.e. APCOA) which confirms you have to evidence to substantiate your claim for this alleged debt. Therefore, do not correspond with me unless you can provide this substantiation A copy of this letter will be sent to Hunter Forrest & Co, along with being used in evidence in my complaints against you and your representatives Kind Regards