The last payment was in July 2004 when the account was closed down. I attempted to reclaim charges in 2008 when Lloyds TSB claimed that they hadn't any records of me holding a credit card with them in a nice letter. I had been pursuing a ppi claim against them and send me details of of the credit card when I made a DPA enquiry, contradicting the above letter of 2008. I had gone back to the adjudicator on the status barred to argue the mistake point and the issue of LLoyds letter of 2008. I have asked the ombudsman for a copy of the bank's file for comment: In defending the level of the fee we would like to rely on the following: AP' report dated June 2010 Letter from AP to L B G dated 14'^ June 2010 Letter from JR, L B G dated 21^' June 2010 Follow up letter from MP to P P dated 21^' July 2010 Submissions made by LTSB to OFT in 2005 and 2006 Letter from Big 4 accounting firm dated 14'^ September 2010 Letter addressed to PP dated 22"'' September 2010 The above information was submitted in relation to a number of similar complaints we sought to defend in 2010 including Lloyds TSB vs. X). We understand that you will have access to a central library within your offices where this information is available. In 2005 and 2006, the Office of Fair Trading conducted an investigation into the fairness of standard terms in credit card contracts imposing default charges. We provided full costs data to the OFT at that time. Following this investigation, the OFT indicated that it would not take further action where charges were set at £12 or below. Referred to above is the costs data we shared with OFT in 2005 and 2006. In 2010 AlixPartners, a firm of independent economic experts, undertook a thorough investigation into the level of the fees we charge on various credit card default events. The outcome of that investigation was contained in a report dated June 2010. AP report dealt with the three default events. These are when a customer is late in paying, goes over their credit limit or fails to honour a payment to the Bank. The independent findings of AP put our costs per default in 2009 at between £18.20 and £31.10 and consistently above or around the £12 mark for previous years. The AP report explains our costs are made up of operational costs, capital costs and credit write-off costs (or "bad debt" in other words). In making their findings, AP relied on financial data. You will also see from the letter from Big 4 firm dated 14''' September 2010 that they have verified the accuracy of the financial data relied on by AP. We only consider refunds on charges applied during the 6 years prior to us receiving a complaint as any claim for charges incurred over 6 years ago is time-barred. As outlined above based on the independent review of our costs we believe that any charges we've made since we reduced our fees to £12.00 on 1st July 2006 are fair. Any comment or thoughts would be appreciated.

Hi All I have been having a battle with LLoyds over credit card default charges from 2004 and earlier. Lloyds rejected the case on the basis of it was over 6 years since I closed the card and also that they felt the the charges were appropriate, even tho I have refered to the OFT credit card statement. I referred the case to the FOS and the adjudicator has written back to advise that the charges of £12 are broadly in line with the actual and estimated costs with the legal principles of OFT April 2006 statement. The charges levied on my case were £36 a time not £12. Any help would be appreciated.

I would check at what address the ccj was issued to before you do anything, if it was issued to the previous address you can have it set aside due to non-service of the claim and and the ccj will be set aside. Having served a cca request on them, give them the 12 + 2 days to respond and if non-response, serve the failure to respond letter to them. This will put the account clearly into dispute and if they try to issue a claim against you, you can use their non compliance as a basis of a claim. If they do turn around and produce a cca, check to ensure that it is valid, as in my case it isn't even worth the paper it is written on.

From having a look at it and the thread and a number of other threads, it appears that G E Money were issuing agreements that are fatally flawed in a number of ways not just for burton's but also similarly for evan, river island using this 12/199 agreement which aren't worth the paper they are written on or meet the cca. Just got to prove this now, which is going to be fun with clueless.

no theres not, all that was in the credit value box was the figure z400 or £400 but it hasn't copied well. I do remember that the terms and conditions came in a lovelly little folded A4 sheet/booklet which was white and had G E Capital stamped on the front (which they haven't provided this time, so shot themselves in the foot with meeting the cca request I served on them), also that is states it is an application to open an account but them stating it is an agreement, so conflicting information being given. I have had a bit of a battle with them as has been sold onto another company who decided to take it to court they withdraw it as i had entered a debt management plan but they left all the sols fees and court costs on it even tho they weren't granted them and won't take them off. I am looking at the possibility that the agreement doesn't meet the CCA act 1974 as fees on it come to around just short of £300 including interest and balance is just short of £900, have considered doing a ppi reclaim and just weighing up my options to see what is the best.

I Have decided to take the plunge and DPA GE Money for an agreement and to see how much in charges they have wacked on my account. After a long wait I finally got this back from them, (was hoping they had lost it as has been 9 years since and was in a shop) http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii358/bigpeterlg/ge%20money/gemoneyagreement.jpg Feel that this is not enforeceable as missing terms & conditions, what's everyone's thoughts on this ?

if thats the case, i wonder how citi can explain this then from when i sar them ? this has reduced the debt that i owe to citi as cabot bought the debt from citi,therefore the monies owed to me shouldn't be able to be passed to cabot. citi have sold the balance and rights to pursue the debt and therefore citi has no longer an interest in the debt and therefore can't , if i read this correctly and my understanding of the property act of 1925 is correct ?

I recently won my charges case via the fos against citi for around £400. Citi are insisting they repay cabot as they have previously sold the debt onto them and have sent the refund cheque to them, rather than myself. has anyone had experience of getting citi to refund you rather than the dca ?

Hi I am currently in the process of claiming back money for the ppi from lloyds and have been looking at the letters and paperwork i have received from them. i have noticed that through the collection system that my balance has been increased £168.10 but no notice of fees have been given or any legal action taken from lloyds. http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii358/bigpeterlg/lloydsletter1.jpg http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii358/bigpeterlg/lloyds2.jpg http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii358/bigpeterlg/lloydsletter3.jpg has anyone else come across this before and any suggestion about how to getting this balance corrected ? Big Pete

I have written to GE Money with a S.A.R. Request and i received a letter back advising they were looking into the matter and would contact me shortly. I have then received the letter below from them and am unsure how to proceed as the charges were put on my account from memory during the missing periods in 2004 & 2005 before i went on a debt plan. http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii358/bigpeterlg/gemoney.jpg any suggestions ?

hi djc i have had no one pm me about it

hi i think rather than have a chat with hmcs it may be worth having a chat with the legal service commission. They are currently working along the same lines as us but not as fully the defence side. They are also the ones that have pursuaded hmcs to put leaflets into the claim packs for debt & other advice. They also are discussing with the debt literature with banks, debt collecting agencies and utillity companies to include early assistance/help. (N.B. if a mod wants to pm me i would be happy to go into further details and knowledge behind this with them as i don't want to put the reasons behind this on the open forum as this time).

hi becky sorry becky, there is no reduction on water rates for people on benifits offered by any of the water companies in the uk. if your parents are on unmetered water is may be worth them considering a water meter depending on how much water they use. the only scheme avaliable for people on benifts is water direct where they have the monies from the bill taken direct from the benifits but they can only do it for income support & job seekers allowance income based & contribution based.

I am trying to help a friend out with a credit card debt. the balance is around £240, however there is £320 worth of late payment charges and overlimit charges (caused by the late fees) i have worked out that they owe my friend £80 but am not sure how to go about claiming this as it is with robinson way. the card was a capital one. any suggestions ?

yes you can ask them for copies of the bills for your records. the will be obliged to send them to you as it is a customer request under the guareented standards scheme.

hi taboozizi you have advised that there is no meter fitted to the property, who told you this ? uu or the builders. are you aware if a there is a meter hole/chamber fitted (usually a little black cover about the size of a table mat down the end of the drive or on the driveway), if not is there a internal meter fixing i.e pipework which has been capped off either under the stair cupboard, kitchen sink or in the or outside garage. do you have your builders handover sheet with meters & reading serial number on for the gas & electric as water meter serial numbers are often included on this? (the above answers would assist with answers for the thread). the situation is that you would be held liable from the date you brought the property. if there is no meter fitted but a meter chamber, all that needs to happen is a meter to be dropped in. you will then have check reads based on you average consumption and from this they will be able to produce a bill. if there is no chamber or fittings, they property will have to be served to see where they can fit a meter or not (usally they can) depending on what the result of a survey come back as depends on what they do next and the work involved and costs (this will be argued between the water company and the builders/builders agents and a possible fine for the builders) as new built domestic properties have to have a meter fitted to them before they are connected onto the distribution system of the water company. it also could possibly be that the builders fitted a meter but never passed on the meter serial no onto uu or this is causing confusion or the meter allocated for your property has been listed against another property

hi jonny, you are welcome each water/sewage or water & sewage company is different but they are generally ok to deal with but sometimes you have to stick to your guns and be prepared to take it via a complaint route where the senior advisors and managers are depending on the circumstances of the case. i would start off with a telephone call to register and just give them reference number off the card, your details and date you moved in. the people on the telephones are target driven and would only be able to get your details down and advised to send a written correspondence to dispute charges into correspondence (dg6) as they can't ammend the bill or period of the bill without documentation and also say you are liable for the whole billing period unless you prove otherwise, (as per normal as this is drummed into them). (dg6) correspondence advisors are usually quite good and look up the information they have infront of them and and do phone you to clarify things and let you know what the response will be often by the phone before you get it in writing and are usually simpathetic and they do come across this situation a lot. the more evidence you give to back up your case does help them make decide what they are going to do as no company has exactly the same practice across the uk and the advisors look at circumstances of the cases individually and the information provided but have to go by the guidance given by company senior manages for situations. if you aren't happy with the response ask for it to go as a complaint (dg7) where a senior advisor/manager will look at it and then reply and conduct a review of the complaint and how it has been handled. Jonny, have you check that it is a water & sewage company covering your property and not a just a water only or sewage only company, where you have to register with 2 seperate companies for the services? i would return the chq to the company who issued it advising that you have no forwarding address for the occupant. it is still classed as the property of the company and although has been cancelled by now they would probably like it back.

hi jonny i used to work in the empty property department finding who was responsible at the empty properties and can explain the process you are going through at the moment. you are currently at stage 3, at the moment, which is awaiting a land registry check to see who actually owns the property, after having the 2 cards (stages 1 & 2). You may recieve a letter enquiring if you are responsible for water charges there or they may just skip onto stage 4 (first visit), if they get confirmation from example 192.com that you are living there If it goes to stage 4 or stage 5 (multiple visit at different times), you will have a representative from the water company visit the property to confirm if there is anyone living there and if so to register them for charges or if no contact can be made to poste a empty property letter through the letter box. i would actually contact the water company and register from the date you brought it and your customer services number. when you get the bill with your customer services number on it, write into them to adv that the property was empty and uninhabbited from the dates your were refurbishing and although water was used during this period it was solely used for making things like tea and not domestic use and whilst you were doing this you were living at another address and responsible (and provide proof of the other address eg council tax bill or another utility bill). NB domestic properties are not allowed to be turned off under the water industry act of 1999 where people are actually living in the address. the only time water represenative can turn off a domestic address are once they are confirmed empty during a visit and no sign of occupation and to facilitate a repair to a damaged water supply only whilst the repair work is actually happening.

i can see from both sides of the fence with regard to the ccbc as I work for a claimant company who works through them and I know people at the ccbc and i do post and read on here and see what misery they bring. Unfortunately the ccbc is necessary evil. most local courts wouldn't cope with the loading that if the ccbc wasn't there, most local courts are even struggling with the existing loads that they have with them for hearings of one kind or another and some courts are now listing cases into November & December and beyond due to lack of space From a personal point, I would love the claim pack to be issued by recorded mail rather than just posted out to ensure people actually receive it as I have seen the state of some that have come back from royal mail and speak to quite a few people who either never have had a claim pack or claim they have never received one and am sure royal mail seems to lose quite a few along the way from ccbc to the addresses. I definitely agree that there should be defence guide and example defences as well as some cheap assistant £5-£10 to deal with specific defences I think the judiciary and the public as a whole is recognising how much misery certain firms use by just bulking up claims and hoping people are intimidated not to respond/aren't able to respond or don't have the knowlege to respond. For those of you not aware a new draft general pre-action protocol is being look at for the minute by the civil justice council (http://www.civiljusticecouncil.gov.uk) and could potential change the claim process as much as the woolfe reforms which under which the legal processes for civil action run today This may change the way things specifically like debt and disputes are dealt with through the litigation and pre-litigation processreading in between the lines of what is being said by the representatives, they are looking at changing or potentially adding into all pre-action protocol i.e. before you get the claim pack or with when it sent out a option for alternative dispute resolution if you don't want to litigate through the courts However there is a sting in the tail for those who don't use the alternative dispute resolution as it looks likely they can't claim the costs or can have costs awarded against them.

i would advise as others have done that it is an an abuse of process to send a SD after you have requested a CCA which by your sending indicates the debt is disputed. you should write back & tell them this pointing out that unless they confirm within 48 hours that they do not intend to petition the court you will have no choice but to issue proceedings forthwith for none compliance with your CCA whilst at the same time drawing their conduct to the attention of the court & requesting costs i have quoted clutchingatstraws post below as it does go into details about sd's and counterclaims

yes i have heard that as well. the issue of interest is definately up for discussion with the finance industry lawyers from what i have heard and the one of the commonly used words is "worried", especially after the action of a specific nameless lender even adding interest when there weren't allowed to and they got caught out. the finance industy are also worried about a number of things across the board and have good reason. they are very worried especially after the draft repossetion protocol's were issued some from the finance industry have called them " a charter for non payers" and it looks likely to significatly increase costs and regulation for lenders and reduce repossession. they are worried about the draft general pre-action protocols and that include debt recovery and the new levels of regulation by the fos and procedures. they are also worried about the proposed changes to the limitation act to take limitation down from 6 to 3 years.

i am fully aware a judge doesn't have to grant a charging order or a possession order on the cases they look at everyday and they are . the courts and the judges do walk a difficult tightrope with the discretion of the court and judges recognising that they must balance the interest of both parties and respect the wishes of the claimaint to recover the money and if the defendant has ignored a judgment order. i am aware through my work that the criteria for charging orders is becoming stricter and stricter. However a couple of things have occured in relation to charging orders in the last couple of weeks. one of these things could have knock on effects nationally. unfortually, i am not able to go into further details at this time due to legal reasons as these are currently ongoing cases. i am also aware that possession orders and the processess to obtain these could be changing due the new draft pre-action protocols for mortgage repossessions.

hi kjd i will save from typing the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) letter https://www.southernwater.co.uk/DomesticCustomers/yourAccount/requestCopyBill.asp go to the link and enter the address you want the bills to be sent for, the address the bills need to go to and the period the bills need to cover. in 7 to 10 working days you will recieve thecopy bills with the reading on them.

a vo changes affects the original ccj and varies either changes it to installments if a default or changes the ammount needed to pay each month if it was an admitance. because it changes the original ccj, only if you fail to keep to the v.o can the dca/claimaint seek enforcement of the judgment debt.

hi mangaroo to stop the telephone calls i would send them http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/letter-templates/131334-dca-response-threats-home.html this will also stop them sending a local represenative to contact you as well and will give you some breathing space and be able to start working throught them. i know it seems overwhelming with the debts, but you can be helped. can you give a break down of the debts you owe and who they are with and what they are for so that we can start to look to help you. all the best peter