Hello Andy, I have just written a reply to your suggestion, but am not sure as to whether it has been sent correctly due to my PC having a little turn! Please let me know as to whether you received it. The_Underdog

Hello, this is my first visit and posting on the forum. I am ‘The_Underdog’ and my particularproblem relates to DVLA, SORN and a [edit].Not an unknown combination I think. I am a U.K. citizen who has resided in Germany since 1991. On the 12.03.2006 whilst in the U.K. for an extended spell, I purchased a car. The necessary paperwork regarding registration of the vehicle in my name was carried out and I duly received a UK Registration Certificate. After a time in the U.K. I returned to Germany, leaving the car in the U.K. for future use. The vehicle being left parked on private land. The tax ran out on 31.07.06. On my next visit to the U.K. amongst my mail at my address there was a notice informing me of my failure to declare SORN. SORN ? I’d never heard of it. Anyway, the notice pointed out as to just what I was guilty of and I declared duly SORN online on 02.11.06. A letter of confirmation was issued and later received by myself. On 03.11.06 I also phoned DVLA and spoke to a lady who accepted my credit card details and relieved me of £68.00. This I assumed was the end of the matter. The car was off the road and SORN had been declared. The end of the matter as far as I was concerned. That was my case history; here is where my current problem begins- I returned to the U.K. in early January of this year, 2008, and amongst my mail was correspondence from DVLA in the shape of a V11 form reminding me to relicense or SORN. It pointed out that my Current Licence Disc or SORN was due to expire on 31.10.2007. Initially I was shocked, as I thought that I had abided by the guidelines in declaring SORN, I was not aware of the need to repeat this on an annual basis. My fault you may say in not reading all the small print, but does anybody, and as stated, I am not in regular contact to the U.K. motoring scene, thus wasn’t aware. So, as there was no further correspondence from DVLA in the form of a Late Licensing Penalty I decided that swift action was needed. I tried the contact telephone number given on the V11 Form, but having got through could not process my SORN as apparently my vehicle did not exist. I also attempted to SORN the vehicle via the internet on numerous occasions, but here too I was merely told that said vehicle and registration number did not exist. I was advised to go to a licensing Post Office and this I did. This being on 07.01.2008. I explained to a member of the counter staff the problem regarding my vehicle and SORN. I entrusted her with the Form V11 issued to me and she phoned the DVLA on my behalf in order to declare SORN for me. After a short conversation with a staff member at DVLA she came back to me and said all had now been put in order and SORN had been declared on the vehicle, this having been backdated, with the effect that SORN applied from 01.11.07. I was issued with a Post Office receipt on which the date and time are recorded, as is the postal address of the Post Office in question. Further, it also lists, Checksum, APS No, Client (DVLA), Scheme (SORN), Token Type, Ref., Tax Disc, Amount (0.00) Cash, Product No. This receipt is in my possession. I now assumed that all was well and that was to be the end of the matter. As mentioned, this was 07.01.2008. On 10.01.2008 I received two letters from the DVLA, with both of these originating from differing address locations. One letter V956, dated, 8 January 2008, coming from DVLA Swansea. This thanked me for making my SORN for the vehicle. It stated that the vehicle record now shows that SORN applies from 01.11.07 and that SORN will expire on 31.10.08. The relevant Vehicle Registration Mark is clearly shown, as is Make/Model. This letter has also been countersigned by the officer at DVLA Swansea, who dealt with the matter. As such, I assumed this to be my letter of SORN confirmation and the last piece in this ever increasing jigsaw. Not So! The second letter, also from the DVLA, dated, 5 January 2008 and emanating from the, Regional Enforcement Centre, Chelmsford. Here in bold type to read is: Failure to relicense vehicle: ---- ---. This form is identified as an LLP Form at the bottom. It is an automated letter and thus carried no signature, it does, however, explain in very exact detail as to how I can send money in the direction of the DVLA and warns of possible prosecution by failure to do so. On the 2nd side there was the possibility to fill out a statement for any predisposing details concerning the case. I completed this; further pointing out that SORN now applies on the vehicle from 01.11.07 and asked them to update their records to include this. Further, I sent a copy of my Letter of SORN received from DVLA Swansea, providing proof that SORN had been back-dated and accepted to apply from the date given. On 05.02.2008 I received a further letter from DVLA Chelmsford. This letter or form identified as 7LS at the bottom, carried the heading, Late Licensing Penalty: ---- --- (Reg. No. of my vehicle). It acknowledged that I have made a SORN declaration, but that this was not done immediately as required. I have found somewhere, in the small print, that one has a month in which to carry this out. There is no question here that I did not do this, but I was still issued with a Letter of SORN, by Swansea, and as stated, backdated. Further, the letter threatened with an £80.00 penalty, reduced to £40.00 for an early payment by a given date. This time it was countersigned by a [edit], Enforcement Manager. I replied by reiterating that I am in possession of a valid declaration of SORN issued by themselves, and as can be seen the document, this applies from 01.11.07, expiring on 31.10.08. Further, that this Letter of SORN was issued and countersigned by a member of DVLA staff, naming the processing officer. I pointed out that were my application to have been irregular I would surely not have been granted SORN by said officer and my application rejected. Possibly I’m stretching things here a little, but they did issue me with the SORN document after all. On 21.02.2008 I received another letter from [edit] headed out once more in bold type with, Late Licensing Penalty: ---- --- (Reg. No. of my vehicle). Herein she states that the law requires that any vehicle registered in the UK be either licensed or the subject of a SORN notification. She states that after consideration of the information supplied she finds no reason to alter the original decision., further stating, that she has answered my enquiries, can add nothing to the information already provided and that nothing can be gained from any further correspondence between us in relation to the matter. I’m once more made aware that the vehicle was registered in my name on the date of liability and that I’m responsible for complying with the law. The Agency then offers me a final opportunity to pay a late licensing penalty of £80.00 as requested in previous letter(s). A copy of the last two paragraphs reads: If full payment is not received by 16/03/2008, the Agency will refer this matter to a Debt Collection Agency or consider issuing a claim against you through the County Court. This may result in you incurring additional costs. Any further communication will not defer this deadline and this action will be taken without any notification. The letter is signed, [edit], Enforcement Manager. Rather longwinded I know, but I must supply the details involved. My question is of course, as I do have this supposedly valid Letter of SORN in my possession relating to my vehicle, together with a receipt from the Post Office, albeit technically too late, the DVLA did choose to issue SORN and backdate it, can I hope to fight this decision? How will this pan out from here? Will Debt Collectors go to my U.K. postal address (my parent’s home address and rather upsetting for them) as a first course or will it be dealt with initially through a County Court. A further complication being of course my living in Germany. Were I to need to travel to the U.K. for any court hearings the expenses incurred would negate the cause. Indeed, is it even legal for me to have purchased a vehicle within the U.K. whilst being resident in Germany? I fully realise that many will say that I simply applied too late and thus made a mistake, but Swansea did still issue SORN and further, it really is proving a problem to keep tabs on the ever increasing schemes being dreamt up to replenish government coffers. I seek real advice here, not merely opinions. As can be seen, I only have until 16/03/2008 to either comply with this and pay up or fight it. If I have made a mistake here in applying too late, then so too have they, by merely answering my request and issuing SORN, or do various DVLA departments view this differently? To give in timidly and comply, surely only goes to increase the powers of such enforcement agencies, and more especially their departmental heads.

Hello, this is my first visit and posting on the forum. I am ‘The_Underdog’ and my particularproblem relates to DVLA, SORN and a Mrs. P. Wooley.Not an unknown combination I think. I am a U.K. citizen who has resided in Germany since 1991. On the 12.03.2006 whilst in the U.K. for an extended spell, I purchased a car. The necessary paperwork regarding registration of the vehicle in my name was carried out and I duly received a UK Registration Certificate. After a time in the U.K. I returned to Germany, leaving the car in the U.K. for future use. The vehicle being left parked on private land. The tax ran out on 31.07.06. On my next visit to the U.K. amongst my mail at my address there was a notice informing me of my failure to declare SORN. SORN ? I’d never heard of it. Anyway, the notice pointed out as to just what I was guilty of and I declared duly SORN online on 02.11.06. A letter of confirmation was issued and later received by myself. On 03.11.06 I also phoned DVLA and spoke to a lady who accepted my credit card details and relieved me of £68.00. This I assumed was the end of the matter. The car was off the road and SORN had been declared. The end of the matter as far as I was concerned. That was my case history; here is where my current problem begins- I returned to the U.K. in early January of this year, 2008, and amongst my mail was correspondence from DVLA in the shape of a V11 form reminding me to relicense or SORN. It pointed out that my Current Licence Disc or SORN was due to expire on 31.10.2007. Initially I was shocked, as I thought that I had abided by the guidelines in declaring SORN, I was not aware of the need to repeat this on an annual basis. My fault you may say in not reading all the small print, but does anybody, and as stated, I am not in regular contact to the U.K. motoring scene, thus wasn’t aware. So, as there was no further correspondence from DVLA in the form of a Late Licensing Penalty I decided that swift action was needed. I tried the contact telephone number given on the V11 Form, but having got through could not process my SORN as apparently my vehicle did not exist. I also attempted to SORN the vehicle via the internet on numerous occasions, but here too I was merely told that said vehicle and registration number did not exist. I was advised to go to a licensing Post Office and this I did. This being on 07.01.2008. I explained to a member of the counter staff the problem regarding my vehicle and SORN. I entrusted her with the Form V11 issued to me and she phoned the DVLA on my behalf in order to declare SORN for me. After a short conversation with a staff member at DVLA she came back to me and said all had now been put in order and SORN had been declared on the vehicle, this having been backdated, with the effect that SORN applied from 01.11.07. I was issued with a Post Office receipt on which the date and time are recorded, as is the postal address of the Post Office in question. Further, it also lists, Checksum, APS No, Client (DVLA), Scheme (SORN), Token Type, Ref., Tax Disc, Amount (0.00) Cash, Product No. This receipt is in my possession. I now assumed that all was well and that was to be the end of the matter. As mentioned, this was 07.01.2008. On 10.01.2008 I received two letters from the DVLA, with both of these originating from differing address locations. One letter V956, dated, 8 January 2008, coming from DVLA Swansea. This thanked me for making my SORN for the vehicle. It stated that the vehicle record now shows that SORN applies from 01.11.07 and that SORN will expire on 31.10.08. The relevant Vehicle Registration Mark is clearly shown, as is Make/Model. This letter has also been countersigned by the officer at DVLA Swansea, who dealt with the matter. As such, I assumed this to be my letter of SORN confirmation and the last piece in this ever increasing jigsaw. Not So! The second letter, also from the DVLA, dated, 5 January 2008 and emanating from the, Regional Enforcement Centre, Chelmsford. Here in bold type to read is: Failure to relicense vehicle: ---- ---. This form is identified as an LLP Form at the bottom. It is an automated letter and thus carried no signature, it does, however, explain in very exact detail as to how I can send money in the direction of the DVLA and warns of possible prosecution by failure to do so. On the 2nd side there was the possibility to fill out a statement for any predisposing details concerning the case. I completed this; further pointing out that SORN now applies on the vehicle from 01.11.07 and asked them to update their records to include this. Further, I sent a copy of my Letter of SORN received from DVLA Swansea, providing proof that SORN had been back-dated and accepted to apply from the date given. On 05.02.2008 I received a further letter from DVLA Chelmsford. This letter or form identified as 7LS at the bottom, carried the heading, Late Licensing Penalty: ---- --- (Reg. No. of my vehicle). It acknowledged that I have made a SORN declaration, but that this was not done immediately as required. I have found somewhere, in the small print, that one has a month in which to carry this out. There is no question here that I did not do this, but I was still issued with a Letter of SORN, by Swansea, and as stated, backdated. Further, the letter threatened with an £80.00 penalty, reduced to £40.00 for an early payment by a given date. This time it was countersigned by a Mrs P Wooley, Enforcement Manager. I replied by reiterating that I am in possession of a valid declaration of SORN issued by themselves, and as can be seen the document, this applies from 01.11.07, expiring on 31.10.08. Further, that this Letter of SORN was issued and countersigned by a member of DVLA staff, naming the processing officer. I pointed out that were my application to have been irregular I would surely not have been granted SORN by said officer and my application rejected. Possibly I’m stretching things here a little, but they did issue me with the SORN document after all. On 21.02.2008 I received another letter from Mrs. P Wooley headed out once more in bold type with, Late Licensing Penalty: ---- --- (Reg. No. of my vehicle). Herein she states that the law requires that any vehicle registered in the UK be either licensed or the subject of a SORN notification. She states that after consideration of the information supplied she finds no reason to alter the original decision., further stating, that she has answered my enquiries, can add nothing to the information already provided and that nothing can be gained from any further correspondence between us in relation to the matter. I’m once more made aware that the vehicle was registered in my name on the date of liability and that I’m responsible for complying with the law. The Agency then offers me a final opportunity to pay a late licensing penalty of £80.00 as requested in previous letter(s). A copy of the last two paragraphs reads: If full payment is not received by 16/03/2008, the Agency will refer this matter to a Debt Collection Agency or consider issuing a claim against you through the County Court. This may result in you incurring additional costs. Any further communication will not defer this deadline and this action will be taken without any notification. The letter is signed, Mrs P Wooley, Enforcement Manager. Rather longwinded I know, but I must supply the details involved. My question is of course, as I do have this supposedly valid Letter of SORN in my possession relating to my vehicle, together with a receipt from the Post Office, albeit technically too late, the DVLA did choose to issue SORN and backdate it, can I hope to fight this decision? How will this pan out from here? Will Debt Collectors go to my U.K. postal address (my parent’s home address and rather upsetting for them) as a first course or will it be dealt with initially through a County Court. A further complication being of course my living in Germany. Were I to need to travel to the U.K. for any court hearings the expenses incurred would negate the cause. Indeed, is it even legal for me to have purchased a vehicle within the U.K. whilst being resident in Germany? I fully realise that many will say that I simply applied too late and thus made a mistake, but Swansea did still issue SORN and further, it really is proving a problem to keep tabs on the ever increasing schemes being dreamt up to replenish government coffers. I seek real advice here, not merely opinions. As can be seen, I only have until 16/03/2008 to either comply with this and pay up or fight it. If I have made a mistake here in applying too late, then so too have they, by merely answering my request and issuing SORN, or do various DVLA departments view this differently? To give in timidly and comply, surely only goes to increase the powers of such enforcement agencies, and more especially their departmental heads.