fair enough what I'm trying to work out is worst case as they seem to come at me with worse case on each occasion!

Sorry sorry sorry I have another question In my last consultation I asked what happens about my smp and was told it would be paid to me on termination which I think is pretty stand the rate for maternity increases slightly in April I presumed that the calculations would be based on the increased rate for the period April onwards however can see no definitive answer to this. In my new letter they simply state " I then confirmed the terms under which redundancy payments will be made which I confirmed would not affect your entitlement to statutory maternity pay." Does this mean they will pay at the higher rate for April period pnwards? Also bearing this on mind within the terms they have put " the notice period set out in your contract which is four weeks subject to deductions for tax and national insurance" does this indicate they are proposing to pay me Smp and notice for the same period ( I presumed my notice would be paid at my normal rate and Smp would be offset against this? Sorry for all the questions - cause they have messed me around I find myself scrutinising everything they write lol

i received a letter today confirming the last meeting and requesting the third meeting. Most of the information is accurate however I have a query I propse to send the below - does this look ok? I have received a letter today from xxxx confirming details of our last meeting and requesting a third and final meeting on 14th February 2012 however no time has been given? Please could I have confirmation of what time I am requested to attend. I also note that the letter makes no reference to my ability to bring a workplace representative in with me for this meeting. I do wish to have a workplace representative present during this meeting. The letter also states the terms under which redundancy is due, to which I wish to make one point. It says that “a statutory redundancy payment of 2 weeks salary at £430 per week which equates to £860 is calculated on the basis of your age, length of service and basic weekly salary at the date of termination” this is based on my roles redundancy being before my third year of service is complete however as yet I have not been given a termination date. Therefore to state that the total is based on 2 weeks salary is inaccurate as until the termination date for my role is confirmed I cannot know that this information is correct. Also as per my previous emails you are aware that I have raised a complaint in regard to my redundancy due to information which has come to my attention since my second consultation and am awaiting further information from you. Alongside the complaint I have already made I also believe that information relevant to the redundancy of my role was withheld from me and as such I query the validity of my first two consultations. I understand that in order for redundancy to be a fair reason for dismissal, the consultation for the redundancy has to be meaningful. By xxxx not providing me with all information as it became known (i.e. that a retention payment was to be introduced)I feel that the consultations that we have had so far have not been meaningful. Kind Regards ps I have left the figures for the redundancy in as they do not give away my salary and therefore I don't consider this to be personal information. My contract makes no additional allowance for redundancy other than statutory redundancy which has a cap of £430 which is the figures based above - may give a little away upon my age though or at least how young I am not lol

off on another tangent can I ask if anyone knows about the renumeration clause. It says in the regs BRB listed that in OML renumeration means wages and salary. Nowhere does it say about AML. I am currently on OML but by 8th march I'll be on AML. I looked back on the Employment Rights Act 1996 which I believe the Maternity and Parental Leave etc Regulations 1999 is clearing up the issue of what renumeration is but can't see any reference in either to your rights under AML?

right my email is going off i just added one line at the end As I am due my third consultation meeting soon and this information should not be difficult to obtain I would be grateful if you would forward this to me within 2 working days.

also just had unofficial confirmation (via a text chat) that they have still not issued additional terms to the other staff affected? was also told all involved have requested the additional terms and no one has had them and that my maternity cover now also has her letter offering her the retention bonus (as they offered it verbally but forgot to send her a letter - probably instead sending it to me!). No terms were attached to her letter either

Oh no I absolutely intended to go back to work And was going to go back early but not early enough to have been there at the end of march - had they told me about the retention bonus I would have gone back earlier but they were clear to me they would decide by mid feb when consultation is up and I wouldn't work my notice!

thought i had also postponed my nursery place but can't find the email I did send the nursery this on 3rd January in response to an email to parents telling us the company had been sold (its all part of the same company) Its xxx from finance department I tentatively bookedxxx to start full time in Feb but i have delayed my return to work can i tentatively book him to start full time from 10th April subject to confirmation closer to the time (as dont know how the below affects me yet) edit == oops taken out the personal details! silly me

my withdrawal of notice was non discript (i gave them no reason for it) I sent them Further to my previous email I would like to withdraw my notice to return to work early from my maternity leave in April. I will ensure that I let you know in writing at least 8 weeks before I wish to return to work from my maternity leave should this be before it is due to end. Please let me know if you have any queries or if you need any further information. Thanks in advance,

Of course that information was not true of the remainder of my department and had they said the finance department would be working out their notice I would have based any decision on the different criteria

Just before Christmas I emailed to say I would like to go back to work on the 10 April but on 19 kan after they told me I was at risk of redundancy I withdrew this I didn't specify a reason just asked to withdraw the notice to return and I would advise again i also emailed the nursery saying that as it appeared I was likely to be made redundant I had to postpone my sons start date and in all likelihood if made redundant would have to cancel - the nursery is part of the same company In honesty I did this because after my first meeting they said they would probably decide the outcome before the consultation period was up and they wouldn't expect us to work our notice so it was clear we would most likely be gone mid feb and I needed to give some firm of notice re my childcare place the reasons for redundancy were based on whether there was a crossover of jobs with their head office. they are far bigger than our company was so it didnt take a genius to work out they already have an accounts department! Hope that makes sense!

Just realised that I could also have an issue with the fact that I was able to give them notice of my return as long as I gave them 8 weeks notice. If they had informed me that I could have the bonus if I was undertaking certain tasks at the same time as the others and (remembering the letter was dated 27th January) I could have given them my notice to return and could have been undertaking my tasks as at 23rd March (if they insisted on the full 8 weeks notice). I would therefore have been in the office and working before the end date of 31st march (albeit it only just) they could of course have agreed to take less than 8 weeks notice if they had wanted- this would however have been after the mid feb that the rest are being made redundant on however I could have still contributed (and just to be clear I would be prepared to work as I would be in a better financial position as the remaining maternity pay that they need to pay up is less than the retention bonus plus a weeks wage) Doesn't this mean they offered my maternity cover to stay on for a period (albeit a week) that I could have still returned to work for? This is all very complicated because I would not have been able to give notice to return for mid feb at any point and don't know whether this would be the deciding factor as to whether this was fair? This is all kind of general rambling lol I think there might be something there but haven't quite got my head around it I think that the request for further info is the place to start and as I've gone passed working hours tonight I shall send that tomorrow Also a relative of my partners who works in HR has suggested the following as well In order for redundancy to be a fair reason for dismissal, the consultatation for the redundancy has to be meaningful. You could argue that, by the company not providing you with all information as it became known (i.e. that a bonus payment was to be introduced) you could argue that the consultation was not meaningful. Therefore if you are 'dismissed by reason of redundancy' it would automatically unfair, because the company haven't followed what they are legally required to do. This would mean that the company would have to start the redundancy process with you over again. I can't think of an answer to this from their point of view, so you might have them here. Although obviously my biggest argument is over the bonus there is also the issue that if I remain employed past 30/03/12 I will have gained another years service. Is it worth pointing out the above as well (can you complain about more than one thing?) as if they had to restart my consultation and give me 4 weeks notice then this would take me into april?

Definitely not to me lol their last email was still frustratingly vague

Yes although I'm not sure they have actually supplied any still but I will ask my boss again just to make sure

The first letter, offering you the bonus was dated? 27/01/12 (need to change that in my email) Their cancellation letter was dated? 03/02/12 (although received through post on that day so date must be wrong) Your e-mail was dated? 03/02/12 And obviously their reply was dated today, 06 February 2012...

Have I told you how much I love you brb? Lol Is it worth putting discretionary retention bonus for clarity as I'm thinking if they don't dispute that that I can better rely on it should it go to a tribunal

thanks BRB maybe i should head this one Grievance just in case they dont realise also do you have any comment on my last little note above:- Also if they do now state there are additonal tasks does this cause an issue in making this a contractual bonus (as I believe this might have issues on whether it can be received on maternity leave can it not

Ok trying to formulate my response and I think I need to gather further information from them if possible so am thinking something like:- dear xxx Thank you for your email received 6th February 2012. As per my email dated 3rd February I would like to reitterate that the only Term notified was to continue to be employed to 31st March 2012. No further terms were included and I am aware that this is the case for those who have also received your letter offering a retention bonus. It appears you are now stating that additional terms (tasks) were required to fulfill the retention bonus requirements. As my position is one of those that is being offered the retention bonus, even though I am on maternity leave, I will therefore require a copy of the additonal terms ("tasks") and confirmation of when these were sent to my maternity cover who is covering my role whilst I am on maternity leave. I would also like to know why you did not inform during my two previous consultation meetings of this situation as it is being offered to the person covering my role I believe I had a right to this information. It is clear that had you not sent the letter to me dated 29th January in error, as confirmed in your letter dated 3rd February, that you were not going to provide me with this information. Kind Regards xxx Also if they do now state there are additonal tasks does this cause an issue and making this a contractual bonus (as I believe this might have issues on whether it can be received on maternity leave can it not And sorry I know I'm not being patient again but I assure you I have no intention of sending any response back without others opinions

Ps I an due a third meeting soon which considering the situation I would rather not have to put myself out for. It's is the third of three meetings for the consultation and technically I haven't been informed that we are definitely going so expect this is what will be notified to me then ( which is a joke considering the retention letter makes the redundancy obvious) Do we have to have face to face meetings or based on the fact that our relationship has broken down could I request that the information for the third meeting be sent to me in writing instead?

Ive had my reply Thank you for your e-mail of 3 February which has been forwarded to me. Retention bonuses are only being offered to certain employees who we need to retain until 31 March. Their bonuses are conditional on them completing certain tasks by that date, which vary from person to person. We are entitled not to offer you a bonus since you are on maternity leave and you would be unable to meet the conditions necessary to receive the bonus. You are not entitled to any payment while on maternity leave (other than maternity pay). Having taken advice from a specialist employment lawyer we are confident that we have not discriminated against you. I apologise again for the confusion in relation to this. They are not giving in on this - I believe they are mistaken (because of that case I found) on the maternity pay bit (although it does appear this is often the case) and obviously they haven't actually supplied these extra tasks they state is different from person to person. I'd also say that as they sent the letter to me in error originally they weren't going to ever send me the information for my position. Is this allowed? It would seem highly unfair to not be told of the situation regarding my maternity cover / my positions requirements.

Well I'm not usually slow I'm usually quite a bright girl but I can tell you employment/ maternity law is a tough subject. I must admit I'm not that confident - the more research I do the more conflicting information I find. I think the case was a good find though as it so very closely relates. I appreciate your wider knowledge in the field and it gives me more hope on the outcome. As for calm I'm calm in public lol usually helped by the fact that I've heavily researched a problem to death Patience though is definitely a weak point - am very much hoping they respond Monday lol

Lol I hope so - my letter was signed off from the hr director so my email went to the hr director lol ( not that I've ever met her!)

sorry BRB I'm not very good at patient .... I shall wait ... patiently!

Thanks guys - I'm still obviously not understanding contractual as to me that would suggest I was contracted to said Bonus (maybe I'm being too literal). I am just so hoping they decide not to take the risk on this and offer me the same as the rest of my department I really do think it would be completely unfair if my maternity cover was to get a better payout from this than I do when she is temporary(and was supposed to finish at beginning of April anyway although I withdrew my notice to return when this all began) and I have been a hardworking member of staff for some time now

Thanks Sidewinder I do appreciate all the help that is offered and I know I am asking a lot of questions - I think I am slowly getting my head around this now. I did send them the email below:- Re Your letter dated 27 January 2012 (Ref. Retention Bonus) As I am sure you are aware I am currently on maternity leave whilst you are consulting on redundancies for xxxx Head Office where I am currently employed. You wrote to me on 27th January confirming that if I remain employed until 31st March 2012 I would receive a retention bonus of 10% of my salary. You referenced Terms attached but none were attached and as my young son has been ill all week I have been unable to chase this however I understand you have not sent any further terms and conditions to anyone you have offered the retention bonus to within the company. As you are withdrawing the retention bonus offer on grounds of my maternity leave it could be construed as discriminatory. As maternity leave is almost always taken by a mother this could be argued to be sex discrimination. The only terms you have stated to entitle me to the retention bonus is that I do not end my employment withxxxx e before 31st March 2012 which is not a problem for me as I will still be on maternity leave and as such will still be employed by xxxx. I would therefore request that you reconsider your position on this matter. Kind regards I didn't specifically say it was a grievance but would the content not make that obvious? (I hadn't found the case at the point of sending my grievance to them so have not referenced this at all but am glad I did send it quick as it appears not sending any T&C's to anyone before my complaint was put in can only be in my favour)