Hi icepop I believe the Default Notice is invalid as it should allow 14 days after serving, see the following by pt2537 18 to 20 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/124572-hfc-no-agreement-amended.html?nojs=1#links Hope this helps regards sc

Hi

Hi SS I think you should examine the copy very carefully. Does the print area on the back cover a similar area as the front? On the back it looks like there is a panel missing from the left hand side. There should be a word before 'Form', also before the line with 'confidence' and 'service'. If this was the case would the page size of the back match with the front? My 'agreement' is very small, but yours looks quite large so should have been folded. Are there any signs of creases from the original on the copy, if so they should match back and front. However, what looks like a date code at the bottom on the back, '04-01' would seem to be OK as the front is signed on '05-01' Hope this might be helpfull, good luck regards sc

Hi tp and everyone, and thanks to Steven Your very welcome to discuss this on my thread, and especially as your 'agreements' are the same as mine. For the sake of continuity I am happy for you to continue discussions here. I too am very confused. Have not had time to update until now. I have read and reread the above several times and think things are getting clearer. It seems to me that one of the main problems is as follows: The required response to a CCA request very often does not give sufficient details to determine if any such 'agreement' would or would not be enforceable in court. When I originally contacted MBNA they replied that they were unable to send a photocopy of the original application. On the 25th Feb I sent a CCA request to which they have not replied. On the 23rd Feb I sent a SAR, and received the above copy 'agreement' on the 14th March. The question remains Do they have the original and if so can they be forced to say so with out going to court??

17th March Regarding my CCA request I sent this follow up letter: MBNA Europe Bank Ltd, Registered Office, Stansfield House, Chester Business Park, CHESTER, CH4 9QQ. Dear Sir/Madam RE ACCOUNT NUMBER: …………………………….. Formal Complaint and NOTICE OF DEFAULT With reference to my previous letters, I wish to draw you attention to your company's lack of compliance with my legal request. On 25th February 2008 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the above alleged account (enclosing the £1 fee) under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8, a copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference. You have failed to comply with the request, and as such the account entered default on 14th March 2008. Furthermore, I have recently noticed that the above account has been credited with the £1 fee. I strongly object to the fact that the £1 statutory payment that was enclosed with a legal request has now been misappropriated. Please be aware that the original timescale still applies and that if the statutory fee is not used for the purpose required under that request, I will be complaining to Trading Standards, OFT and a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman for misappropriation of funds. The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law. Furthermore, if this non-compliance continues for a further month then a summary, criminal offence is committed. Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies. You: * may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. * may not add further interest or any charges to the account. * may not pass the account to a third party. * may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency. * may not issue a default notice related to the account. Therefore, until such time as you may comply with this request, this account has become unenforceable at law. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines. I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets. I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter. I await your rapid response. Yours Faithfully

The above copies as received are quite small and only just legible. The prescribed terms are on the reverse, but are not refered to on the front. On the front it states: 'Please issue an MBNA Credit Card to me. I confirm that the information given is true and complete. I have received a copy of and agree to be bound by the MBNA Credit Card Terms and Conditions and I understand that I am responsible for paying any balances due on my Credit Card Account'. As the prescribed terms are on the reverse and not refered to on the front, am I right in thinking this is unenforceable??? No Terms and Conditions were sent with this, but as it was sent in response to a SAR not sure if they have to. As they have not sent a Full Data SAR should I write back and request this, and if so would they then have to supply the correct Terms and Conditions if they have them. I think I should ask for the full Data anyway to see what other info they have. Would I need to send back the £10 Postal Order that they returned to me? All opinions would be much appreciated. Regards sc

The above has my name and address, and signature. This is the reverse

14th March reply to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). Thank you for contacting us. Your subject access request has been passed to me to respond to. Under section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 as per your request for statement information, please find this information enclosed. I requested full disclosure of ALL DATA We have provided this information to you free of charge on this occasion. They returned my £10 Postal Order, Statements from Feb 2002 and a copy of document entitled SIGNATURE FORM.

Hi everyone, and thanks for all the great support so far. Not updated for a while, so here goes. 11th March received another threatening letter headed Re: Notice Of Possible Charging Order On Property This letter was full of 'ifs' and 'maybes' etc regarding 'possibly' obtaining a CCJ, and then a Charging Order and costs etc etc. They even enclosed a copy of the Land Registry entry!! More phone calls, and no security checks.

Hi Car October 2000

I understand what you are saying Steven that you can not tell from a copy, but with respect, if this went to court and Abbey turned up with the original and the prescribed terms were on the reverse of the same piece of paper, and nothing on the front to refer to the other side, in your opinion would this then be enforceable? Assuming name and address and signature etc were all on the front.

Badger Just had another look at your friends document, and it looks like name and address were there and have been blanked out. Also like mine, right at the top there is half a pair of scissors where it has been detached from a letter or something. See my thread: Safecracka vs MBNA (The Law) (please could someone explain how to post a link?? thanks) sc

Hi Badger I too have recently received a very similar document from 'our friends' in Chester. Mine does have my name and address on the front, and, like your friend's signature form, the prescribed terms are on the reverse. I will be scanning mine onto my thread soon. I think I applied for my card on the phone and this document was sent to be signed, as the name suggests 'Signature Form'. Steven You state in the above post In this case, does the reverse side of the same document, qualify it as being on the same piece of paper ?? I see however that there does not seem to be anything on the front of the document that refers to the reverse. The only reference is to having received 'A copy of the Credit Card Terms & Conditions' Whereas on the reverse it states 'Financial & Related Conditions' Best of luck for your friend Badger regards SC

The £1 was credited on 27th Feb, but have only just checked my account today. Do you think I need to reply, still not found a suitable letter. sc

Have just found today that the £1 CCA fee has been credited to my account !!!! I know I have read a suitable letter to send but having difficulty locating it now. Can anybody point me in the right direction please. Thanks sc