It is now over 6 months since the second letter and there is still no communication from ECP since my last letter. Interestingly there was a letter in my local paper from a lady complaining that ECP had done the same thing to her when she visited the same site twice in one day over 4 hours apart - Perhaps there is an attendant trying to boost income here? - I wonder how many just pay up? Sadly I was unable to contact the lady to advise her about this site.

So it is now over 3 months since I sent the second letter advising that the ticket claim was false and explaining why no charges were incurred. The reponse is a deafening silence. So lessons learned: 1. Euro CP will pay attention eventually and give up if you have a strong case. 2. If you have similar problems with these or similar rip off merchants fight, do not give in. 3. The advice given on here by Bernie T B, Barnsley boy and others is excellent please do follow it. My thanks again to all who gave advice.

Seems to me that the pesky Perky clan are trying to play mind games..........How infantile! How transparent!

Thanks MB, I am aware of trolls but had not realised they were on here. I hope Minsteller rots in hell along with all his other [problem] bretheren.

Sorry I do not understand - Does anyone else?

Thank you BB I hope you are right - I will follow your excellent advice. I will report if there is any change in the situation. I do hope others will be encouraged to fight these [problem] artists.

A brief update : Basically nothing has happened, no reply to my last letter to them on 20th Jan so that is just over six weeks. It took them eight weeks to reply to my original letter but that was with Christmas and new year in between. So I wonder if my making them aware that they were making a false claim has made them give up? Having dared to to think I smell victory I will probably get a demand tomorrow!

Much applause to you Goldlady - Got him right between the eyes!

I would like to point out to Interesting that I have just done exactly what he says above and ECP has completely ignored what I said and sent me another standard letter asking for payment so I have to got to the trouble of explaining it all again, but this time I am accusing them of making a false claim and if they do not desist I will pursue this. To everyone else I say appealing to their sense of fair play is futile they are just a money gathering machine and have no interest in the truth!

Thanks again to both of you - I will get it posted Monday - It will be interesting to see what their response will be - I will keep you posted - Hopefully it will encourage others in similar circumstances not to give in.

Tahnk you MB - I am hoping if someone actually reads it they might twig that my reference to the ticket making a false assumption means that they are open to the accusation of making a fraudulent charge should that become necessary if things develop further - That might be expecting too much from one of their numpties I suppose.

Thanks BB - My proposed reply: ****** Further to your letter dated 18th January 2008, I note that you refer to my letter of 25th November 2007 as ‘An Appeal’. That letter was not in fact an appeal. It was to advise you that whoever wrote the Parking Charge Notice had made the incorrect assumption that the vehicle was in the car park for over four hours, when in fact it was not and that consequently the Parking Charge Ticket is making a false claim. I repeat again. The vehicle was in the car park on two separate occasions that day with over four hours elapsing between exit and re-entry as no doubt your camera records can confirm. The vehicle did not contravene any of the ‘length of stay’ or ‘no return’ times as stated on your signage and referred to in your letter. I repeat my absolute denial that I owe you the amount claimed or that any monies at all are owed by me to you and regret that I shall be unable to assist you further in this matter. ****** Any suggestions for improving please?

I originally posted in "Euro Car Parks £70 fine" in November - nothing has happened until now so as the circumstances are different I have started a new thread - I collected a PCN for staying over 4 hours at a ECP park - The vehicle was not there for 4 hours but was inthe park on two seperate occasions over 4 hours apart - On the advice of Bernie the Bolt and Barnsley Boy I wrote based on a template letter advising ECP of the situation and that the PCN was incorrect and that I denied absolutely etc. - I received this today: - ******* With reference to your letter dated 25/11/2007 appealing against the above Parking Charge Notice. Euro Car Parks Ltd. manage this site on behalf of our clients and are regulated by our terms and conditions. Following instructions from our clients, I can confirm that Euro Car Parks pass all appeals to the Centre Management at XXXXXXXXX who attend to these directly and inform which notices are cancelled or upheld. I can confirm that, after a full investigation Centre Management have decided to uphold the notice as this was issued correctly. Euro Car Parks offers a space management system, and the signage at this site is quite clear in it’s intent, and therefore it is imperative that the time constraints are adhered to including the ‘Maximum stay’ and ‘No return time’ of vehicles. This is to ensure that all genuine customers are able to use the facilities at this site. Please be kind enough to forward payment of £30.00 making your cheque/postal order payable to blah blah. I would respectfully remind you that this amount is now due, with payment to be made within 14 days. Please quote PCN number etc.etc. ******* I have a good idea on how to reply based on a template follow up but would appreciate any observations or comments. Many thanks

Hear hear - Compliments of the season to all the good guys on here trying to fight what is just a rip off and [problem] industry.

Just an update on me and Euro Carparks - My case is the one wher the car was in and out of the park twice in one day and was given a PCN saying it had been there for four hours. It is now three weeks since they would have received my letter based on Bernie the B's advice and I have heard nothing from them - Dare I hope that they have realised their error and are not pursuing it??

Don't underestimate yourself Barnsley Boy - I am really tee'd off with the way that 'Rip Off' merchants are able to fleece people in so many fields in this country today (and the parking [problem] parasites come a close second to Credit Card companies and banks) - I take my hat off to all those that help to fight these parasites and spurious charges in any way.

I have been away for a while and have just read through this thread - I profess no qualifications other than common sense - I would urge people looking for help on this site to consider which are the 'good guys' genuinely trying to help others and which are those following a 'spoiler' agenda for their own ends - It is pretty obvious when you read through the posts - I urge everyone not to give in to the [problematic] and to follow the excellent advice given by Pete, Barnsley boy and Bernie the bolt and others to defeat these parasites.

This is a no brainer - People are invited to park to use whatever facilities the car park services and supports - For Perky to turn round and say that he and his ilk are defending the rights of landlords against trespass by people invading their property is completely fatuous. - By the way Perky it's I before E except after C and you had better belIEve it - I do hope your legal education was better than your English language edukashun or the punters are on a sure fire winner.

Legal adviser seems to have got it in one - Why on Earth would retailers NOT want me to park and go spending in there outlets. - Muggerbee do we know how much the numpty parking attendants who police these parks get remunerated - For example are they on some kind of commission? - I am trying to establish if there is motive for them to falsify tickets in order to boost the pay packet which appears to have happened in my case - Not that I expect to ever have to make a defence - But it would be interesting to know.

Having recently received help from people on this site regarding a problem I have with Euro Car Parks I have been following the debates in various threads pertinent to Private parking with interest. In my problem case the site does not have a commuter problem nor is near to any business park or offices, it is all retail - What puzzles me is why the landlord of a shopping mall or one of his major tenants would allow a parking set up which effectively penalises customers for staying and doing the very thing that they want them to do which is shop and spend money - I would have thought that they would want people to stay and visit every outlet and if necessary come back several times a day to make purchases - I do not get it! As a simple layman all the esoteric guff about the landlord and trespass I have read from Perky and similar people is utter b******s - It is self evident that PPC's are purely a money making device. - Do the drones writing the tickets get paid a percentage or on the number they issue?

THE LETTER........................................................................................ The above charge ticket issued by one of your operatives states that the vehicle was in the car park for a period of over four hours. I would advise you that this was not the case. The vehicle did park in the car park on the day in question but did so on two separate occasions and over four hours elapsed between exit and re-entry. No doubt this can be confirmed by your CCTV/ photographic evidence. Consequently I dispute the charge stated on the above mentioned ticket and absolutely deny that the amount claimed on the above charge ticket is owed to you, or indeed that any amount at all is due to you from me.

Thank you Bernie t B and Barnsley B - After sleeping on it I am going with a letter along the lines you have suggested and I am sending it now in response to the ticket. The idea of referring to "their CCTV/photgraphic" evidence is very clever - If they ignore that and write back saying "you still owe us" I can bring in to play the follow up plan of denying again, and will they put up or shut up If they pursue it after that I can initiate admin. charges and cease and desist. If they are smart they will cancel the ticket straight away.

Thanks Bernie - So would you write now referencing the charge ticket on the car or wait until they contact me via letter at a later date??

Having given this some thought, if I did go with route 2) would the following be any good? Dear Sir The above Charge notice issued by one of your operatives has been brought to my attention as I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. The vehicle concerned was parked at the site mentioned on two occasions on the 23rdNovember 2007. On the first occasion the vehicle exited the car park at 11:15 it did not return to the car park until after15:30. Consequently the vehicle was not in the car park for a period of over four hours. Your operative may well have noted it’s presence at 11:08 and again at 15:40 but the assumption that it was there for the entire period in between is completely erroneous and untrue. I therefore absolutely deny your claim that the amount claimed on the above Charge notice is owed to you, or indeed that any amount at all is due to you from me. The thinking being that this may be enough to make them give up straight away??? Any thoughts would be welcome - Thankyou

Underneath the part of the sign that advises of the over 4 hour charge, in small but clear print it says (no return within 3 hours). So I have an intriguing tactical dilemma, should I 1) Proceed with the "ignore them route" until they make contact and then follow the "I dispute the charge check with the driver" etc. or 2) Write now pointing out that I was in the car park briefly and left at 11:15 and that the vehicle was parked in my drive until 15:30 when another driver went to the car park. Their agents observed the car on both occasions at 11:08 and again at 15:40 so no charge is due as the vehicle was NOT there for over four hours and to please rescind the charge - Not mentioning that the time they have recorded is well outside the no return time. I am very happy to follow option 1). Option 2) may well cut off the drivel but points arise a) I am tacitly acknowledging that I know who was driving the car. b) They may well write and say "Tough it's your word against ours, pay up" I would then have follow the dispute approach anyway disputing the charge and telling them to take it up with the driver. So Am I gaining anything by writing now?? I would be most grateful for any observations or advice on which tactical route to follow now.