Thanks Dave. I called them today and they have offered to repay the taxes. Doesn't sound enough to me. OK we are the ones breaking the contract but to lose the whole lot [less taxes] seems waaay to greedy of them. I was not expecting to get it all back but losing £10,000 is hard to take and being Scottish I am looking to fight it. Possibly the Consumer Rights Act might work.

Last year my wife and I booked a business class flight to Singapore. We wanted to go during a busy period and while we were debating about dates etc the airfare cost rose by around £1000. Not wanting to pay any more than that since the original fare was around £10,000 . So we booked through Trail Finders on non refundable tickets and because of our age we couldn't get travel insurance with them so we took the tickets without travel insurance and expected to get it from another company . Because of illness it was not possible to fly at the time and we tried to cancel the tickets. They refused. Didn't even offer to repay anything not even for the fuel nor the taxes that we no longer would be liable for. In the end the only way not to lose the money was to rebook for later this year. Since then at long last I have been granted a Green card to go to the USA [I started 5 years ago] so not able to get to Singapore again. We still haven't any travel insurance so I am looking for a way not to lose our money. Obviously it might have been possible to swap the destination from Singapore to the USA but Singapore airlines do not fly from London to the USA. So we are in a bit of a cleft stick. Do we have a way out please?

Annaboo your WS was not as strong as it could have been. I have put in what you should also have said. You didn't complain enough about their poor payment facilities which made it virtually impossible to pay within the allotted time but as you paid that should be enough with most Judges. Sadly not with them all. Hopefully their WS will give you the opportunity to add an addendum to your first WS . The signage can be very important-it should comply with PoFA and the BPA Code of Practice. They don't. The entrance sign does not list the T&Cs so is only an offer to treat it does not offer a contract. There is nothing on the sign that mentions the car park is BPA approved. That is a breach of their Code of Practice. Once inside the car park motorists are faced with three different companies signage-none of them are by CEL and none of them are members of BPA or IPC. Further one of the companies ceased trading back in 2019. I cannot see that CEL can lawfully issue PCNs in this car park when the Terms and Conditions of the companies who have their signage in the car park appear to need vetting or approval from the DVLA, BPA or the IPC. Again none of the signs are marked with the BPA approval sign just like the entrance sign. This is the BPA Code of Conduct relating to signage "19.7 You should display the BPA’s AOS logos at all sites. This will help the public to see that you are a legitimate operator, and show that the site is run properly" The inference here is that there is no legitimate operator and the site is run improperly. Also CEL is thus failing to comply with its Code of Conduct and as such should not be able to gain data from the DVLA. And should not have been given your information. As an aside Annaboo, ABC Facilities Management ltd was dissolved on 11th April 2023. Might be an idea to see if their signs are still present in the car park. [The fact that it was dissolved this year doesn't affect your case as that happened back in 2021 but if their signage is still there now I am sure CEL will not want to go to Court.

The airport is covered by Bye laws so the charge cannot be transferred from the driver to the keeper. only the driver is responsible for the charge. This is such an easy case to win should they go to court-though Apcoa rarely goes that far. It is questionable if they have established a contract with the driver. For a start unless things have changed, there is no notice at the start of the drop off area that the area is controlled and there are terms and conditions attached. They do have signs to that effect within the drop off area but the lack of notice before the drop off means no contract was formed. Also dropping off someone is not parking. They don't know if you were the driver but are accusing you as keeper as if you were there on the day. the strange thing about this PCN is usually where Bye Laws are involved the creditor states that they will pursue the driver. they have not done that with you so they are pursuing you as the keeper which they cannot do. They don't even state that they are pursuing you on the basis that the driver and the keeper are the same person but this reads as if they are pursuing you as the keeper only.

wv600 I am so sorry but I misled you about the PCN being non compliant because they had not asked you to pay the charge. On checking the PCN while they have said it they have still got the PCN wrong. They are supposed to specify the parking time when what they have actually done is to use the arrival and exit times as the parking period. This is obviously wrong since you would have had to drive from the entrance to the parking spot and perhaps have to manoeuvre back and forward to be parked within the lines. On top of that there may have been children or disabled people with you who would have taken longer to exit the car and then re-enter it when leaving. Then you have to drive back to the exit perhaps having to stop because of pedestrians, other vehicles, animals etc. All that time spent driving around cannot be termed as the parking period and the new Private Code of practice confirms this. 2.24 parking period the length of time that a vehicle has been parked, i.e. left stationary otherwise than in the course of driving, after any relevant consideration period has expired (excluding instances where the driver has stopped to enable passengers to leave or enter the vehicle) This is not the period between a vehicle being recorded as entering and departing controlled land.

Could you please post up the original PCN you received front and back. Plesae remove all your personal date and reg. number as well as any of their reference numbers.but retaining the dates and times and it need to be legible.

You will get them when you receive the SAR or the CPR . Whatever you receive first could you please post all of it on this thread so we can build you a strong defence. Things like their wording on the PCN, their signage and the contract with the land owner can alll help . Also if you can get photos of the sigange at the entrance to the car park as well as inside the carpark including the sign by or on the payment machine if there is one. Also photos of signs that have different terms compared to others and could ypu please take them so that they are legible as legibility can be a strong point in your favour with some Judges. They have also been in trouble for falsifying photographs and moving signs around the car park.

You posted the original windscreen ticket but as yet we have not seen the follow up PCN which is sometimes called the Notice to Keeper. Could you please post it up showing times and dates but obviously not your details or your car registration. The front and back of the full PCN as well as it being legible since UKPC are pretty poor at documentation.

There is the classic case of Jopson v Homeguard where the Judge differentiated what is parking and what is unloading/delivering.If you check out the case you will see hat the Judge's definitions on parking fit very well into tour situation. Just ignore them .They should know the difference. You are likely to get any number of letters from their unregulated debt collectors and solicitors with limited knowledge all chasing you for money that you do not owe. Unless you get a Letter of Claim or a letter before Claim just add them to the pile safe in the knowledge that they should lose in Court if it ever gets that far.

When or if you receive their WS you can always add a supplemental WS if their WS is factually inaccurate or something they wrote needs amendment as it will be slanted in their favour.

You could point out that you were waiting for their WS and that you still haven't received it. Bit cheeky perhaps to ask the Court just yet to dismiss their WS when yours was late too but something to use should you actually end up in Court. Don't forget to send your WS to the rogues as well. You can do that by email but block your email address after you send your WS to them.

I am assuming that the docks are covered by Bye Laws which is probably why they were not concerned with getting the PCN to you within the 14 day period necessary for them to be able to transfer the charge fro the driver to the keeper. Whether I am right about the Bye Laws or not, you as keeper are no longer responsible for the charge-only the driver is liable . As any one with a valid motor insurance is able to drive your car they will have their work cut out to prove who was driving as the Courts do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person. This is one reason why we do not recommend appealing since it all too easy if the driver and the keeper are the same person, to reveal that they were the driver. For example instead of saying the driver parked the car, they say "I parked the car....". Incidentally, there doesn't appear to me to be a reason why you got a PCN from them. Did the driver not pay or is parking permitted for Permit holders only or was there another reason? Photographs of the entrance sign plus other legible photos of the signage inside the car park especially ones that have different conditions and any signs beside the payment machine would help. Though be careful not to collect another ticket.

Maybe not but it would have been more accurate..

When you said he was parked in a residential area, was it in a parking spot on a property he owned. If not where was he parked and was it in the same place most times at least.

Game over Bradford lad. None of you need pay a penny. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 for several reasons. The first one is that no parking mentioned. They do have the car recorded when enteering and leaving the carpark but that is not the same as parking. After entering the car park the driver has to drive around looking for a place to park and then manoeuvre the car into the parking spot being careful to park within the lines. Later, driving from the parking spot to the exit sign also cannot be described as parking. Both Schedule 4 of PoFA and the new private parking Code of practice are quite clear on this point The signs are not clearly marked at night nor is there any mention of there being no parking at night on the entrance sign-it just states 3 hours free parking which the driver accepted as being the situation. In the Beavis V Parking Eye v Beavis supreme court case, the Lord Judges agreed that the penalty clause would have been invoked were it not for the legitimate interest held by PE in keeping the carpark free from overstayers to maximise the number of spaces available for parking. Here the shops are closed so PE has no legitimate interest in charging such a high charge. It is undoubtedly a penalty and the charge should be cancelled. There is no provision within PoFA that motorists are liable to pay damages or other unspecified charges over the amount claimed on their signs. Schedule 4 S7[2][c] (c)inform the driver that the parking charges relating to the specified period of parking have not been paid in full and specify the total amount of the unpaid parking charges relating to that period, as at a time which is— (i)specified in the notice;

Are you the registered keeper of the car or your son?

I think it is DX. Updated 2021 and includes. A snotty response.

With all these parking companies there tends to be a series of actions before you get sent the letter before claim. It starts off with a reminder then continues with perhaps three or four Final notices and then they pass the motorist over to their unregulated scummy debt collector to send a further selection of threatening letters while unlawfully increasing the amount owed. If that fails they send in a poor quality bunch of so called solicitors who once again threaten you trying to scare you into paying. This can last two or three years after which they or may not decide to go to Court. So that gives us and you plenty of time to look at other threads to help you understand what your situation is. This time very unusually, PE are threatening Court very quickly without trying out a softening up policy of getting money out of you. It also means that we have not as yet advised you to see how this parking system works and how to counteract it. if you had looked at the "sticky " section of the Private land Enforcement, one of the threads relates to If you read it all you will see how to respond to LBC and the Snotty letter.The SN is designed to show the rogues that you aren't afraid of them or of going to Court so no point in continuing. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. But if you can please complete the above questionnaire it will get the ball rolling.

No it's not your only reason. UKPC are not the brightest so will have made quite a few errors which can get you out of paying them anything. Their PCN's are usually a good source of finding mistakes that make them non compliant so it's a shame we will have to wait a while before we can see yours. Their signs aren't very good either so if you could get legible photos of the sign at the entrance , the one by the payment machine as well as the ones dotted around the car park, especially ones that have different terms. One of the common reasons for cancelling a PCN is that the font size is too small. Just relax you will have many reasons why you don't have to pay apart from the vehicle you parked beside was partly in your space.

You obliterated the times on the PCN. Could you please tell us arrival and departure times. Timings be criitical and work in your favour.

IGreat news. You really shouldn't have been issued with a PCN in any case. But they would have taken your money . You might have a claim against them for wrongly ticketing you. I am looking at an alternative to going to Court which may be cheaper to initiate but take longer to resolve. You may be happy to drop it now and get on with your life or you may want to try and get some compensation. Your decision.

Did you say that after you updated your bank details with Good2go your payment went through? If so can you please confirm when the payment was made. I imagine that the PCN would have been sent on the 30th September. If that is the case, PE haven't a hope in hell of winning in Court so go about your life without getting worried . They may well drop the case at the last minute when they see you are not going to pay them and they have no chance of winning if you turn up in Court. In addition to the CPR request you should also send them an SAR since they do not have to respond to your CPR and if they send their WS to you at the last moment it leaves it kind of late to see their original PCN. And that notice from them is not always perfect and could help your case even more.

While you are waiting for a reply from the CPR, could you please answer the following questions which will help you in your defence should they decide to go to Court. They don't always and even when they do they still back out o occasion often when they see the motorist is not going to back down or pay up.

Vondoothoven DX is right the only choice you have initially is to reply to their Letter of Claim. If you go chasing around the country trying to get it cancelled you will have CCJ before you know it. Please follow the instructions above on post 2 so we can see what they have on you. Then you can respond showing them that you are going to fight them if that's what you want. It may well be that there is a way to get out of paying anything but obviously we will need some info from you -and that starts with the Claim form. Once we have and your PCN as well as some dates it will give us a clearer picture of the situation. The chances of anyone being able to cancel the Claim form is so very remote as to be a forlorn hope. Especially as to PE you are acting scared enough to end up paying them. So why would they cancel when you are getting nervous.

Yes it is normal and a legal requirement. If your postman has been and gone already today send off your WS which includes the fact that UKPCL have not sent you their WS.