Hi Kez, it seems it may be worth your while to write your letter off to Mr Beale, AND to send your form in to the FOS. After all, that's double the pressure then isn't it, and hopefully that strategy will work for you. Yes, please keep us updated, Best wishes again. Keep going, you will get your money back

Hi virdeea, i'm sure you'll get your money back, hang on in there, keep on going and you will get your money back. The Nationwide will keep you waiting, but have a look round the threads here for some useful tips, and ask any questions that you think you need to know about, i'm sure there are lots of people here who'll be able to help. Best wishes

Hi t2suggas, I was quite surprised it was settled so quickly to be honest with you, mind you, the money isn't in my account yet, they've said it should be within 2 weeks. Best wishes with your own case.

Hi CyprusOlives, Congratulations on your win. It's always good to hear about.

Hi chrisk7, I know what you mean about becoming addicted to reading through everything you can on this forum. Try not to worry too much at this stage about the overdraft (I was in the same position when I first started my claim with an overdraft, and I was also worried about them demanding repayment), just focus on each stage as it happens, and if anything unexpected happens, just post a message to ask for advice, i'm sure people here will be able to offer you assistance in any event. Best of luck with your claim.

Hi all. It appears that my letter to the Chief Executive was a wise move, see: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/nationwide/99140-letter-chief-executive.html I received a letter this morning from their Member Service department, saying that Mr Beale is sorry to learn of my disappointment, and after fully considering everything raised in the correspondence on "this occasion only" they're willing to refund all the charges requested, and reverse pending charges. They've apologised for the poor customer service, and offered me the full amount as a full and final settlement of my complaint, i've signed the acceptance form, as it is the full amount, and they have not attached any further conditions. It may be worth others writing to the chief executive if they have similar concerns as I have outlined in that letter to Mr Beale. Best of luck everyone, and a donation is on its way to the CAG. Thank you to this forum for all the very useful information, it's greatly appreciated.

Just had an additional thought on this subject. Doesn't the law say that when any losses are awarded due to unlawful actions, then the claimant should be in the position they would have been in had the unlawful actions not happened in the first place? If the above is the case, then, say for example someone is in the unfortunate position of their balance being into the unauthorised overdraft when they are claiming, before they actually claim their losses from the charges themselves, shouldn't people question the legality of these unauthorised overdrafts first? If it is true that people should be in the position they would have been in before any unlawful actions are carried out, then if it can be proven in court that unauthorised overdrafts are unlawful (I think an argument could be made about this under the Consumer Credit Act 2006 as I mentioned earlier in this thread) then before any charges are credited to a claimants account, the balance should be brought upto the legally enforceable overdraft limit before any charges are returned. I hope this is clear, what do you think?

Oh, i'm not holding back on anything Remus. I've also just lodged a complaint relating to their possible breach of the data protection act (they sent my statements to my previous address after i'd followed all the necessary steps to change my address with them) So I can now add another act of negligence to the others. You know, I wouldn't have believed how negligent and incompetent they are, if it weren't for starting down this route! On one occasion you know they returned a direct debit for £14.99 unpaid when my balance was at +£46! Dead right on the direct debits, they definitely don't appear to work in the consumers favour. Hmmm, I wonder if because they are variable any of those areements could be also classed as unfair because they act to the detriment of the consumer? Any thoughts on whether they could also be in breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations? They're not getting away with it anymore so easily, that's for sure thanks to sites like this.

I'm sure you won't need any luck, but good luck anyway pink

Congratulations bimbam, it's great to read about all these successes against the Nationwide.

There's also the following people can download if they'd like to do so, a handy little tool which allows anyone to convert documents to PDF format, i've used it a couple of times myself, and it does the trick: Free PDF Converter - create high-quality PDF from any printable file type

Well, there's been many a time when i've gone to a cash machine to discover that i'm just short of the minimum £10 I can withdraw. I would certainly welcome the cash machines being stocked with £5 notes, rather than going into the branch and waiting in a long queue to get a fiver out. Of course, they're saying that because they don't want the additional "hassle" of having to stock their machines with this extra note.

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Just a quick update, received a letter from the Ombudsman this morning, they're passing the complaint to the casework administration area to await allocation to an investigation team.

Hi Kez, sorry to hear that you've still had no responses at all. It's terrible service really isn't it. Sounds bad having to increase your overdraft. Have you considered also saying to the ombudsman that you don't feel that they're acting as responsible lenders according to the banking code, or alternatively, depending on your own circumstances telling the ombudsman that you feel they're in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 2006 in regard to "Unfair Relationships between Creditors and Debtors", in that you've been forced into increasing your overdraft limit, purely, or in part because of their unlawful penalty charges? Hope the Ombudsman manages to get you somewhere Kez. Best wishes.

Hi all, I thought the following might be useful to us all: Consumer Protection Act 1987: "2.1.1 The Consumer Protection Act 1987 makes it an offence to indicate a price for goods or services which is lower than the one that actually applies. You should not therefore show one price in an advertisement, website, window display, shelf marking or on the item itself, and then charge a higher price at the point of sale or checkout. In addition, specific regulations apply to particular types of sales and ways of selling—eg retail sales (including the Internet), sales of food and drink which involve service, distance contracts, resale of tickets, package travel, etc. Your local Trading Standards Services or Home Authority will be pleased to advise you on the current regulations that are relevant to your business and of any good practice guidance which is also relevant. 2.2 Incomplete information and non-optional extras 2.2.1 Make clear in your price indication the full price consumers will have to pay for the product. The consumer should always be fully aware of the total cost including eg postage, packing, delivery charges, insurance, etc. before they commit themselves to the purchase. Some examples of how to provide this information in particular circumstances are set out below." The Trade Descriptions Act 1968 - Guidance Note from Department of Trade and Industry Consumer and Competition Policy Directorate: Definition and Marking Orders Powers are available under the 1968 Act by which definitions of the words traders use to describe their goods or services could be laid down. Orders could also be made requiring goods to be marked with or accompanied by information necessary for consumers of the goods, or for such information to appear in any advertisement for the goods. I have a couple of suggestions relating to bank charges and use of unauthorised overdraft facilities, what do you think? A possible true description of Unauthorised overdraft facilities. An unauthorised overdraft may only be used to recover our penalty charges from delinquent customers. Cheques, and direct debits will not be covered by the unauthorised overdraft facility, it is for our use only, and intended to allow us to add extra interest and charges on what could otherwise possibly be a balance in positive territory. This is a non optional extra provided at our convenience, for our convenience.

Am going to send the following to Nationwide today: Member Service, Nationwide Building Society, 1st Floor, Old Building, Kings Park Road, Moulton Park Northampton NN3 6NW Re Account Number *********** Dear sir or madam, Further to your letter, dated 18th June 2007, reference MSD/*******, which states : “The Financial Services Authority (FSA) allows us 8 weeks to investigate before you have the right to ask the Financial Ombudsman to review your case. This ends on 10 August 2007, and we expect to be able to reply to you by then if not sooner.” As I informed a member of your department on the telephone yesterday (19th June), I made my initial complaint on the 22nd May 2007, the 8 weeks to resolve the complaint to my satisfaction runs out on the 17th July 2007. The lady I spoke to said that a further letter would be sent to me to reflect this apparent maladministration by the Nationwide. In addition to the above, the letter also states: “We have noted that the address provided to the Financial Ombudsman Service differs to our records. In order for us to update our records please complete the enclosed change of address form and return it in the prepaid envelope provided. Please also provide us with proof of your identification in the form of a photocopy of your driving licence or passport.” When speaking to the lady at member services yesterday, I informed them that I had already sent a completed change of address form to the Nationwide earlier this year, and, indeed, received an acknowledgement letter, dated 24th May 2007 asking me to contact the helpdesk at the Branch Service Centre. I contacted the Nationwide following receipt of this letter, the gentleman I spoke to said that all I had to do now was to take my cash card for the account into my local branch, as the Nationwide required an electronic copy of my signature. I followed this instruction, and thought no more about it. I believe it is highly unsatisfactory, and negligent for your staff to attempt to say that they hadn’t updated their records with my new address, when in fact I had followed the procures necessary in order to change my address. It seems strange that I had previously changed my address on another occasion without such problems, yet following a complaint on an issue relating to the Nationwide’s unlawful penalty charging regime, the necessary procedures were not followed by yourselves. In addition to the above, last night after I’d downloaded statements from your online service, I was shocked to discover that my statement dated 6th June 2007 was delivered to my previous address. As you can imagine, when you change address, you don’t necessarily notice if you don’t receive a statement on a certain date, as that is not a priority. I am dismayed though that the Nationwide sent this statement to my previous address after I’d followed all the necessary procedures to change my address with yourselves. This appears to be a breach of the Data Protection Act. I believe the Nationwide were forced to sign an agreement on the 20th February 2007 following the discovery of your customers personal details in a bin, that you would from then on abide by the principles of the Data Protection Act, quite obviously you have not abided by those principles, and the Information Commissioner should be made aware of this breach. Not only have the Nationwide breached the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 with your unlawful penalty charging regime, you’ve also breached the Consumer Credit Act 2006 in respect of “Unfair Relationships Between Creditors and Debtors” by abusing your privileged position as administrators of my account to allow my balance to exceed its authorised overdraft limit on numerous occasions purely to claw back your unlawful penalty charges, and burdening me with debts I would not otherwise have had, additionally in my own case you’ve now breached the Data Protection Act, and negligently administered my personal details, as well as my account. The above will be brought to the attention of the Financial Ombudsman as well as the Information Commissioner. Yours Faithfully

Oh, great news bobbyj! Congratulations

Oh, just noticed after going through those statements from Nationwide online, despite the fact I received an acknowledgement letter on the 24th May about my change of address at my new address, Nationwide sent my 6th June statement to my old address. Due to the move, everything was upside down for a bit, and I obviously didn't realise that I hadn't received a statement at my new address. Isn't this in breach of the data protection act or something similar? After all, they should have processed the change of address by then, shouldn't they? (They sent the standard get lost reply to my first letter requesting charges to my new address on the 31st May - well that was the date on the letter anyway which I received on the 5th June) I don't really like the thought of the new tenants or even my ex landlord having a look through my statements.

Well, i've been going through all the statements available online to try and work out the actual loss caused by these unlawful penalty charges. As i've mentioned on the letter to the Chief Exec, being an accountant he will know that there are hidden losses which don't show up on a statement to the customer. I've given an example on there as follows: I may have had an account balance of +£10 on day one, on day 2 a penalty charge of £30 is debited from my account (with no authorised overdraft) taking me £20 overdrawn. On day 3, I was unaware of the penalty charge, and deposited £50, instead of having a balance of +£60, I now have a balance of +£30. I would need to make a further deposit of £30 to bring my balance up to where it should have been, had the Nationwide not debited the £30 charge from my account. So, considering this today, I went through all the statements available online, and deducted the amounts imposed through the charges to work out the additional amount I would need to deposit to bring the balance up to where it should be. Obviously though the online statements only go back to April 2005. Although i'm not expecting the chief executive to agree to authorising a full breakdown of the amount I have actually lost I do feel that this seems to be a legitimate point that many people aren't picking up on. So far, on top of a certain percentage of the deposits made being gobbled up by the penalty charges, i've worked out in my own case that i'd need to deposit at least another £724.86 to get my balance back to where it should be. (And that's only back to April 2005) Shouldn't we all be trying to get back the actual amounts we've lost, rather than just the charges? It seems the banks are effectively charging us roughly double (it could be more i'm not an expert mathematician) the original amount of the charge! It made me so angry, but yet so determined to get my money back as I was going through those statements. I tell you, I was shocked that on occasions when I was up to my maximum overdraft limit (even into unauthorised overdraft sometimes) that I should have had a positive balance in the hundreds!

Just sent scans sent to you Pink Princess, sorry for the delay. Hope they help you out.

Happy reading

Hi Siberianhusky, this is the link to the Financial Ombudsman's section on bank charge complaints if you do decide to go down that route: FAQs complaints about bank charges If in your own circumstances, you feel that in addition to the charges the Nationwide acted irresponsibly in allowing you to increase your overdraft limit purely for the purpose of recovering their unlawful penalty charges, and use an unauthorised overdraft facility to recover their unlawful penalty charges I would also inform them of your own concerns on that. This seems to be highly irresponsible lending, and if such circumstances apply to yourself, then it appears that the Nationwide have acted unfairly in imposing debts on yourself which you would not have had otherwise. I think if you do decide to go down the Ombudsman route, they may well look seriously at the above if it applies in your case. Whatever you decide, best wishes.

Just a quick update. The poor things, all this paperwork, and changing my mind, to go down the ombudsman route rather than court must be confusing them. I got a letter off them this morning saying that they'd received a letter from the Ombudsman, and they had 8 weeks to respond. Only trouble is that they didn't count the 8 weeks from the date I first made the compliant, the lady I spoke to on the phone sounded rather flustered after checking paperwork to find that they only had less than a month now (Their 8 weeks runs out on the 17th July), instead of 2 months to refund my money before the Ombudsman pursued the matter further. So they're going to send me out another letter to reflect that. In addition to that, they said that they didn't have the correct address for me and sent me a change of address form, I kindly informed them that I had an acknowledgement letter from when I originally sent my change of address form dated 24th May 2007, and that I had gone into the branch to show them a signature as requested. Apparently, i'll be receiving a letter to apologise for that, and if necessary due to their fault may have to fill in another form in. I'm sure the ombudsman, and/or the court will be impressed by this maladministration. Further updates as they happen. Best wishes all.

Hi Pink Princess, good luck with your claim. Regarding the charges being unlawful, I have scans of a leaflet which may be useful to yourself which state clearly that their charges are imposed because of a breach of contract "for using FlexAccount outside its terms and conditions", and that they are used to subsidise "an excellent range of benefits and competitive interest rates". If you'd like a copy of this leaflet, please PM me with your email address, i'll be happy to send it to you. (Around 15 copies sent so far - I think the Nationwide would be pleased with me!) All the best