Nickysbird As Gizmo says you are obviously very angry and this is undoubtedly borne mostly from the hurt and loss of trust and betrayal of the friendship you gave. It's easy for Gismo and I to sit back and say forget it-not so easy for you to do though. But try to think about it this way. Your friend may have gained a lap top, but she has lost your friendship as a result of her betrayal. As you said in your earlier post you gave her the lap top so that you could keep in touch with each other. So at end of day she has lost more than you out of this. She's lost a good friend-something money CANNOT buy.

Very wise advice Gizmo. Nickysbird's friend probably wouldn't be open to mediation even if it were inexpensive. She obviously has a lot of issues to deal with if she is on drugs and lets be honest here even the most lucid thinking person can be stubborn or unable to see things from another's point of view when they are angry, upset or have a lot of personal pressure or stress.

LOL Saintly!

To be honest I have never personally heard of a mediation lawyer/solicitor. Do know there are mediation services available, especially in divorce cases which can be highly volitile due to the hurt on both sides and it helps calm things down and allows each party to have a more objective view to how the other person is feeling and why they may be reacting in such a crazy/nasty or selfish way. Short of being offered this service when you visit your solicitor to obtain a divorce I don't know where you would look to find a service like this. Maybe someone else might have an idea or know more. Also whilst you may be willing to attend mediation, would she be willing to attend? Don't prejudge though! Nothing ventured nothing gained and if there is such a service available it might resolve a lot of problems between you. You may not end up good friends again but you may be able to understand each other a little ore and be more aware of why she has done this and help her to see why you are so angry.

I sat up till 3 in morning putting charges schedule together. But cos I ran out of room I put it on two separate docs! Don't laugh I wanted to get it done. :o Now I don't like that so tried to copy one into the other but the figures at bottom wouldn't automatically add up again. So not one to give up I shall sit down in peace and quite later and do it all again on one sheet now, thanks to Dar£n's help on how to insert. Many thanks Dar£n. So obvious really but think my brain was fried!

Seriously do you really think that they might view it as not really putting in the correct amount of effort!?!!?!?!

I'm not really sexist either just pulling your leg!

Nooooooo! Cos I'm not paranoid! Didn't even occur to me the judge might see it as lazy. But then again supose HE might-after all he is a man!

Good point Martin! Well spotted-forgot that little saliant point. Suppose the baliffs could cease the lap top as part payment:p Sorry being a bit flipant there really. In truth it would only raise a measly few pounds. But if she owns or own house, or has some very nice valuable assets!?!?!?! Or if she works and you know her bank a/c details and dates when she gets paid you could slap a garnishee order on her bank a/c. Truth is even if you know she has the money 'floating' around doesn't mean she will part with it easily so you have to look at other ways to get the money even if you win.

Don't encourage me Crusher! I think I was born a rebel! I'm one of those people who hates to see the little man being squashed by the big fat cats or honest decent people being seen over. It really makes me mad!

nickysbird The fact you have the receipts proving it is yours is great. Yes you could go through small claims either to claim it back or to claim financial cost of the lap top back. In any litigation it's never clear cut that you will win. Civil law is supposed to be based on the balance of probability. So you can prove it was yours without doubt. What you would then have to prove is that you didn't give it to her as a present, but that it was a loan. Hence why you were asked if there were any witnesses. You could ask the police to accompany you to prevent a breach of the peace, and make a time to go round there with them. This would depend on how helpful your local police are/how well informed is she on the law etc. Just the presence of the police MAY frighten her into returning it. Whatever you do you need to make certain you stay on the right side of the law and do not threaten or intimidate in any way! On the civil side and taking her to small claims court. It would be up to you to decide if you can afford to risk the court fee to even give you a chance of getting the lap top back. It's the old adage of balancing the pros and cons. Moral justice v cost to you in legal fees v value of lap top v how much do you really want it back. Only you can decide how much it is worth to you both financially and morally to take the risk of spending out on the court costs in an attempt to get it back (and indeed if you can financially afford to take the risk in losing the court costs should you lose your claim). Goodness I sound just like a solicitor!!!!! But truth is although the courts are there to see the balance of truth and justice being done. Unfortunately it is a very sad fact that in today's society people do see people over and lie about it in the extreme! It's almost makes you feel like you want to take a written contract out every time you lend a 'friend' anything or do something for them. Sorry I'm going on but I hate it when friends who you trust then see you over or when the little man in the street gets seen over by the big fat cats who know they have the money to bully and harrass! Off my soap box now. :o I hope you do have the extra cash available to risk and try and seek justice. Good Luck.

I like the Right of Appropriate! It's amazing what you can find out and how you can use that knowledge to your advantage (not always at once but always handy to know job). Pooling info is so empowering and helpful in so many ways. This site is amazing and so are all the people on it.

T&C's Someone asked for T&C's for LloydsTSB last night. I had a dig around cos I have Lloyds a/c that is ancient and found the folder they sent me when they changed from Lloyds to LoydsTSB. Buggers all it had was T&Cs for the bank card. However, have had 2 requests to email it which I will do. But also have had request to send it to the site. So here I go again showing how computer illiterate I am!:o How do I do that please. Sorry I feel such a dimbo. Also someone kick my bot in a few days to craw into the understairs room. I'm sure there must be more T&C's somewhere in the drawers in there. I unsually keep everything like that. But it's going to be a mammoth job cos there are saddles, packing boxes, hoover and all sorts of things in front so it's going to take me the best part of a day to get to the drawers alone, oet alone trawl through the documents/paperwork I have stored in there. So it won't be today! And to be honest I'm looking forward to it like a hole in the head but if it can help then I don't mind-just I know I'll probably put it to the back of my mind because it's something I'm not really looking foward to!:o

Trucker I'm using the excel from this site. Dar£n Many thanks for the instructions. Will have a go at it when I get back from the solicitors this afternoon. Bit of a bummer cos I was a bit impatient (when I start doing things I like to get them finished so I copied another sheet over and did the rest on that.:o Know I'm being a pain and a bit thick here but is there any way I can copy the second doc onto the first one rather than retype the second lot up into the first one. Not really being lazy! They charged me soooooo many times in summer of 06 it's ridiculous!

HELP!!!!!!!!! Am doing spread sheet for charges (the simple one!). Sorry think I must be the simple one because I got to line 116 and now I don't know how to continue adding in from there on. SORRY Never done spread sheets before. Must be a simple explanation but can anyone help and explain to simple minded person PLEASE. :o

Hi Pantheman I've been with Lloyds for years and when they changed to Lloyds TSB they sent me this whole new folder with all their nice glossy brochures etc in it. Been in the bookshelves as is for years (since 1999 to be precise). I thought hey maybe I can help! BUT funny thing is they didn't send me any different terms and conditions!?!?!?!?! Only thing I have got in the way of T&C's is the LLOYDS BANK PAYMENT CARD TERMS AND CONDITIONS-YOUR PERSONAL COPY Sorry don't think this is of any help to you, but you are quite welcome to a copy if you wish. Know I would have T&C's in drawers under the stairs for Lloyds (as they were) but think they would be way too old for your purposes. However, if there is anyone out there who would need T&C's of this age then let me know. Just give me plenty of warning cos drawers are behind hoover, four saddles, packing boxes and pressure washer!!!!! Would need nearly a day to get to them!

Hey MoneyKing you being cheeky there!?!?!!? Email time is about the only time I do get chance for tea and bickies! I never seem to stop. Day's gone before I even have time to blink most of the time-can't believe it's nearly 6 already. Now if I had needed to send urgent mail in post I'd have lost the chance today without realising it before it was too late. That's why I like email to be honest. Can type up letter at any time, even start and come back to it if I have to do something else, and then send them out at any time. Also, it does prove useful when you get a confirmation receipt email back from them cos as soon as you get that receipt you can get straight on the phone to them (harrass them a bit! ) and say 'well I know you have received it cos I've got the confirmation receipt in my hand, so lets deal with it NOW!' Ooooooh the power! Or if they say it hasn't been handed on to them then you say 'well I think you had better find out where it has gone to and sort out your office problem of documents and letters not being passed over with efficiency. Or 'oh dear I'm sorry to hear you have such an inefficient team in your office, I'll resend it to you now whilst we are speaking so you know it has gone and you can go and pick it up off the computer yourself.' It's quite funny actually. Because there is no way they can fob you off with bad post or anything like that. So there are quite a few advantages to email-especially on the empowerment side!

For info of all you lovely people who have responded. Certain email trackers do also give proof of reading, how long it has been read for and also if it has been forwarded to another email address, if that second email address opens it and reads it and for how long too! Further, it can be set to date and time stamp these facts and that is admissable as evidence in court! That is whole reason I chose the tracker I did. As for court bundles etc-well yeah I can see the problem of actually sending that via email! Size of a court bundle would probably be problematic alone! Bugger up or jam the whole system! To be honest as far as case sensitivity is concerned-do I really care? Not really if someone wants to know I'm suing bank good luck to them, I have nothing to hide. And if they want to try and steal my identity or use my a/c in some way then again good luck to them. They can of course pay the outstanding unauthorised overdraft that is standing on it if they want! Other than that I don't envisage using the a/c very much after all this and would certainly be keeping a very beady eye on every transaction (a) to ensure the bank don't ever get a chance to steal money from me again and (b) for my own security (identity theft blah blah) after someone managed so easily to set up a DD on my account without my authority or even me having any knowledge of the fact until quite a time after. As for ensuring it gets into the right hands first time if I send it by email-I can see your point there. So was thinking perhaps to send it via email with tracker for speed and efficiency and then phoning for confirmation it had been received and passed on after (phone call won't cost any more as have all in payment plan on phone) or indeed sending it by recorded delivery as well for extra confirmation that way there is no way they can get away with trying to deny they received it!

Many thanks Trucker and MoneyKing for advice. I have looked at the standard letters for SAR and prelim letter. Re SAR don't think I will bother at this stage as it will only give them room to delay even further. Re prelim letter think I will use this, with a little addition and adjustment to incorporate the fact that I have already been in quite lengthy negotion with them already and that I am prepared to accept the £4200 in part settlement (something on the lines of what I drafted earlier this morning to be added). Also whilst it would be brilliant to go for CCI think I'll stick with 8% when it comes to the actual claim (but have a couple of weeks to mull that over and get more imput from you guys anyway! ) because in my original letter I did request this in addition from the outset! Well. :o Thought it might be a negotiation lever for them to settle. Will post the draft letter in this thread before I send it for your approval. Then as soon as their 14 days are up from the the prelim letter, I'll wack in the LBA. One last question before I disappear to start my drafting. It says everywhere on this site to send all letters by Recorded Delivery. However, that is costly and time consuming. I must admit I have sent my last few letters via email (know the bank refuse to reply that way) and have asked for confirmation of receipt (which I have always got). Also I have an email tracker set up on my computer which notifies me of receipt and reading etc and can also be set up to produce a certified receipt which can then be used as evidence in court. I have not used it before when emailing Barclays (it was set up purely to prove I had tried to contact my ex business partner to try to settle what he owes me amicably and that is the only time I have ever used it). Am I right to assume that this would be just as good as recorded delivery?

MoneyKing Opened a/c Feb 03. Requested bank statements 27 Jan 07. Finally got all the statements end of April 07. Sent letter to them May 07 (NOT marked without prejudice) stating following receipt of all the bank statements from them I had calculated the charges at £5,650.99 plus interest at 8% (statutory % allowed by the court) of £667.15 and required them to pay me this sum in full (£6319.14). If you want I can copy this letter into this thread later (as this letter is on my desk top computer and am using a lap top at mo). Also I sent them the following letter which states that they were 'out of time' in sending out the requested statements and other things too. Unfortunately as you will see it is marked 'without prejudice'. So do I need to start totally from scratch again as suggested by Trucker? Or can I ask for rest (T&C's, Original Contract, copy phone conversations and just for completeness another copy of bank statements-which may come in handy) via SAR and because my last two letters were marked 'without prejudice' send a new letter on the following lines:- "Dear Bank Customer Robbers I am in receipt of your letter dated 17th May 2007 offering me a settlement of £4,200. In response I am, at this stage, prepared to accept this figure as a part settlement NOT IN FULL AND FINAL SETTLEMENT.I will be pursuing the outstanding amount through the courts if you do not agree to settle this outstanding amount in full. Unfortunately you have not responded to my previous two letters and therefore I have sought further advice. To this end and due to the constant delays and lack of response from yourselves I have had to recalculate the sums of money that you owe me. [Further, I am now aware that I am entitled to claim interest on a like for like basis (better wording to go in there-like M&L's reciprocal blah blah) and therefore the interest I am claiming is at the contractual rate of 29% (or whatever Barclays/Woolwich's unauthorised rate is). The new figures are £xxxxx for the unlawful charges plus £xxxxxx being CCI. Please note further, that any further delay from you will only serve to increase the sums you owe me and therefore the figures I final submit to the court will be increased accordingly (a) for the interest you are still adding to my account; and (b) for the increase in CCI that is obviously increasing as a direct result of the further charges you continue to add to my account and on a daily rate because of the time span incurred by your constant delaying tactics. I give you 14 working days in which to respond to this letter." What do you think? Not sure about whether to charge 8% interest or the CCI rate as yet hence why in square brackets. Would appreciate further advice/comments on this and will read more thread etc on it before I make my final decision.

Many thanks Trucker. Think I have done a few things wrong before coming to this site to be honest. I have already requested charges + interest at 8% in a letter at the end of April 07. This is a copy of my last letter:- So am wondering how much do I need to back-peddle to get things right so no margin for error and/or give the buggers a chance to slip under the wire? Or can I use the fact I used 'without prejudice' to my own advantage and just write them another letter at the end of the 7 days stating that I have not heard from them or had any reply to my previous letters and therefore I have recalculated the costs and also due to gather more information now understand I can claim interest from them at CCI rate. Therefore, I request they pay the lot within X amount of days after which I will definitely take them to court! Or something along those lines. Any help/suggestions most welcome.

LOL Oneofakind! You are so right! I love reading the success stories from people-I'm all for the little man fighting the big fat cats and winning! Also others here are right-it does empower you and give you the knowledge and courage to fight!

Okay-food for thought. Might as well hit some of the questions and concerns that last night's reading brought up. 1. My last two letters to Barclays were headed "Without Prejudice". Having read M&L's thread don't think I should have done that! :o I thought it meant that they couldn't hold me to any offer of negotiation I put forward and so it could be withheld from court inasmuch it couldn't be put forward as evidence against me. I certainly didn't know that it meant the letter could not be produced in court at all and that any letters etc directly relating to the without prejudice letter could not be produced in court as evidence either! So have a bit of a quandry about that as I was going to use the fact that I have been trying to be fair and equitable. 2. M&L claimed for contractual compound interest at 29%+! Nice one! I also read however that this is a bit risky and so will have to read up more on it. However, IF I could claim that (Barclays/Woolwich equivalent) instead of 8% or IF I was prepared to take the risk, I wonder if the without prejudice letters could work in my favour? I'm not being greedy here. Just see the fairness and justice in claiming against them on same level of interest that they so easily and greedily took from me. Also have to be honest it would help if I have to go down long legal route with ex business partner and/or there are a few other people I could help out too. By the way I'm fully aware this is going to be a long haul thing-not expecting any kind of result for at least 6 mths if not longer . 3. M&L formally requested their bank statements, copy initial contract signed when opening a/c, T&C's and copy recordings of all their phone calls by SAR. I just phoned bank and asked for all my statements from the beginning. Would it be useful/is there any point in my now formally requesting everything M&L requested? Also if I did would it hold up my starting a claim in the CC? Or would I be able to continue with getting claim lodged and have time to get these things from them alongside? Can see the absolute sense for many reasons why a body would want and need these things and/or even if they didn't get them how it could prove very useful in court to be able to prove you at least requested them/did your best to obtain them and yet again it's the bank's fault they are not there! Anyway if anyone out there has any views/ideas/comments/instructions/words of wisedom I would be most grateful to hear them. Many thanks.

A little bit tired this morning! Sat up til 3 in the morning reading Lucid and Mindzai's story. Wow. Deepest respect to them, was so thrilled at the end to learn they won and beat the buggers! Also it gave me a lot of food for thought.

That's what I like to here! Positive forward thinking! Many thanks MoneyKing for the words of wisdom. Need it sometimes-think we all do went things seem totally against you.