Hi peter - not been around for some time as I have some family issues. What was the basis of this judgment going against her?? Surely this is the main basis of challenging the CCAs is it not? Thanx jax

Oops!! Yes ... missed that one Lexis. Alternatively a third party cheque would suffice!

And the difference is.................??

Thanx car - have the unsuccessful ones been on the unenforceable CCAs?? If so - what happened - did you just end up having to start paying again? And, if so, was the interest added during the time it was in dispute?? I would assume that if the claim was unsuccessful then you would be obliged to pay the interest??? On the successful ones - did you have defaults, etc removed. Again, I assume, because it's unenforceable they have to strike all record of it from you Credit Reference? And, of the CCAs, did any of them agree to write off debt before getting to court? Sorry - so many questions - so little time!!! I will of course read your threads!!

They ARE obliged to send you a copy and if they don't send one within the 12-day deadline they are in default and as such cannot enforce it until they do (provided it's an enforceable agreement that is!)

1. How successful have you been with the unenforceable CCAs? 2. On what basis do you bring the claim and do you have any info on your step-by-step process? 3. Have any of them actually got to a hearing? jax

This is what I sent Tow .. it might need a bit of updating but 3 points to remember are 1) remember to send £1 cheque, 2) DON'T sign it - use a fancy font and 3) send it recorded (or 'signed for' - whatever they call it these days). Hope this helps jax

With avid interest and bated breath ...........................!!

Sorry car your humour has been lost on me here somewhat!! Are you suggesting we should be taking these suckers to court?? jax

Yes Noomill I realize you CAN take them to court ... however, as we've seen on these threads you need a judge who understands fully the Act and I just wonder whether it's worth risking it even though you know your'e in the right! It would be nice to draw a very thick black line under these though AND get any defaults, etc removed jax

And there's no point tempting fate and taking THEM to court is it - or I have been advised?! jax

Thanx Lexis - just really wondering how long this is REALLY going to go on for??!! Thanx to you too FG - this is basically what I have been doing - most of those on the DCA-merry-go-round have given up and handed back to OC anyway. Even some of the solicitors have crawled back under their stones! Each new DCA gets a letter saying this account is in dispute with OC and the usual stuff about them not being able to chase a disputed debt and they too disappear or acknowledge that the account is in dispute. You write and ask them for their proposals for a resolution but they never answer that question - just keep chasing the debt! Do they EVER come back and write these debts off or can this go on for literally years?? Not sure how long my nerves will stand it LOL!! And if they do write it off, do they have to remove any defaults?? Thanks again guys jax

Thanks Lexis Well I've sent letters pretty much stating these points (not spelt the sections out word for word - they can their own research on that one!!) but really stating they are legally obliged to send me a properly executed document containing all the prescribed terms, etc. This they have not done as a number of mine don't have any prescribed terms and they are still trying to collect, default me AND passing it around the DCAs like pass-the-parcel!! Don't really want to ignore them but I have heard that Trading Standards are little if no use here - do you have any experience of them or have you gone on to a 'next stage' yourself? jax

I have a number of CCAs which do not have the prescribed terms and are thereby unenforceable. I have therefore stopped making my monthly payments. I continue to receive statements and/or letters re 'fulfilling my obligations' and there does not seem to be an end to it. I have written many times stating that they have not complied with my CCA request and because they have sent 'something' they consider they have. Is there any point (or has anyone done this) in sending them a letter actually stating that what they have sent does not comply with the conditions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and is therefore unenforceable? If the answer is 'yes' what exactly should I say to these people and should I be quoting the relevant sections of the Act? Hope this makes sense (btw they are all credit cards). Many thanks jax

see attached letter from Citi ... all they sent me 15 pages of terms and conditions which are not originals as when I took card out it was just plain old SHELL and now CitiFinancial Group is plastered all over T&Cs jax

Many thanks VS - am just compiling a letter where Citigroup have not complied and say they don't have to!! jax

Can someone please remind me on the 'default' and 'committing an offence' situation with creditors when they don't respond to CCA request within given time. I know it was recently changed. Is it still they have 12 days to comply and then enter default situation ONLY?? And that there is no further limit as the 'committing an offence' situation has been removed?? Hope this makes sense. jax

Aha ... think I've got it!! ALL the prescribed terms MUST be present in the actual signed application/agreement. Any OTHER terms which the OC includes CAN be in the T&Cs BUT the original signed application/agreement MUST REFER to the T&Cs specifically. One other point - do the T&Cs form part of the agreement? If so, do they HAVE to be referred to specifically (other terms included or not)? And, if they do have to form part of the agreement and are NOT specifically referred to at all, does that render agreement unenforceable? Thanx Paul - your questions and subsequent answers have made it a lot clearer - not crystal, but clearer jax

Thanks Car for your kind words of wisdom - hear what you're saying and take on board your comments. Ta muchly jax

Yes car ... thanx for this. I have read it (more times than I care to remember!) but I still find it difficult to apply to CCAs unfortunately!! jax

Paul I am following you all the way on this ... ie I too have exactly the same confusion as you!! The only thing I understand is your confusion lol! However it is becoming very slightly clearer with each post - what might be helpful is if someone could post up a copy of an enforceable agreement and an unenforceable agreement and highlight the differences??? It's all very well being told your agreement is unenforceable but if it comes to a court hearing, then you have to know your arguments inside out. And thanx for all those who have had an input especially to Paul's questions - very helpful. jax

Thanx for info GL - I'll have a look see. jax

Can't seem to find your threads GL but I assume from you have said it was THEY who took YOU to court??? What was the basis of their claim and I assume you defended on the CCA being invalid? Have you posted copies of your CCAs on the threads? Would be interested to see them and why they are deemed invalid. Regards jax

Thank you Peter ... appreciated. Regards jax

If you get what you consider is an unenforceable CCA and you stop paying the monthly repayments and that CCA does in fact turns out to be enforceable or it is enforced by the court, what happens when you have to start paying monthly repayments again? Do you have to make up the payments you have missed? Can you be charged interest now for the time the account was in dispute? Or does the balance start from the date the account became disputed? jax