Quick update - Council have cancelled PCN....on this occassion only and added that it will be served as a warning so don't do it again. Result 8) ...oh and they don't have a copy of the relevant parking order covering this location but will send it in due course...I won't hold my breath. Thanks to all for help

Any comments or is it ok as it is?

Thanks for all comments so far. Appeal letter cobbled as follows: Dear Sir/Madam PCN No: ********** Reg No: **** *** The above numbered Penalty Charge Notice was served on **/**/** in the car park adjacent to ***********. However, I wish to appeal against it as I believe the PCN has been issued incorrectly for the following reasons: 1. The signs do not give adequate warning that a penalty charge will be applied. 2. The signs do not indicate that a permit should be displayed. 3. The signs indicate that parking is reserved for Market Traders Only but do not state any times or days that the restrictions are in place. 4. The PCN was served on a day when the Market was not in operation. 5. The PCN does not properly describe the alleged contravention. This is shown as Code 16 - ‘Parked in a permit space without displaying a valid permit’. However, this code relates specifically to an On-Street Parking contravention. I would also request that you provide me with a copy of the Off Street Parking Places Order covering the location where this PCN was served. Yours faithfully Name Address

Ok will do. Thanks for advice. What are the chances of them accepting my informal appeal? Are many successful at this stage?

Not sure, but there may be an info sign on the market square that includes details of market days. Info is published on council website etc. Market has been operating in this location and on these days for just over a year (originally at the other side of town for years). There is no info or signage about market days anywhere near this car park. Cars have parked here for years without a problem before the market moved and even since it moved on non market days. Problems only started when council took over parking enforcement approx 6 weeks ago.

Yes, market traders park their vehicles on both the paved and tarmaced parts of the car park after setting up stalls on the market square which is around the front of the building. No stalls are set up on the road. The market runs on 2 weekdays plus Saturday. As mentioned above the PCN was served on a non market day.

The paved area forms approx 1/5 of the whole car parking area.The rest is alongside the right hand side of the building in the photo and forms a 'J' shape. This is tarmaced rather than paved and part is shown in the bottom right corner of my photo. Cars park on the paved area at 90 degrees to the road/building, accessing it across the pavement via the dropped kerbs. I was parked on the paved area just to the left of the sign. There are approx 3 other identical signs attached to the side of the building that are visible from the larger part of the car park.

PCN Photos x 3

Sign and location photos

Hi Got a PCN in a Council car park under contravention code 16 - Parked in a permit space without displaying a valid permit. The CEO has obviously used the wrong code as 16 specifically relates to an On-Street parking contravention. The one that probably should have been used was code 85 for an Off-Street parking contravention. There are other issues that I'll cover later but is this first one likely to be a sufficient reason to include in my informal appeal? The other issues that I can throw in if necessary are as follows: 1. The only sign on display said 'No Parking Area - Reserved for Market Traders Only' 2. The PCN was given on a day when the Market was not in operation 3. There is nothing to state a permit is required 4. There are no marked parking bays or spaces 5. There is no indication that ignoring the sign will result in a fine/penalty charge to pay. I'll post photos showing the sign and location shortly. Hope someone can offer advice. Thanks MB65

He may as well not have been there. Don't think he said more than a couple of sentences....and he read those directly from the defence doc. I'll be most pee'd off if I have to pay for that!

Thanks Kay I'm resigned to the fact that it's probably a waiting game now ...come on the OFT!! My only other concern now is that apparently A&L could put in a claim against me for their costs for today.

Spent an interesting 3 hrs in court today with half a dozen other claimants trying to convince a Judge to lift the blanket stay he’d imposed on our cases back in August. He said he’ll considered our arguments and notify us of his decisions within the next week or so. To be honest I think he’s probably already decided to leave things as they are….he’s hardly likely to admit that his original decision was wrong His main argument for imposing the stay seemed to be that he was protecting us from incurring huge costs should each individual case become embroiled in lengthy legal processes/appeals if we won at our initial hearing. He said the OFT were taking on the risk of incurring such costs on our behalf. I pointed out that the test case was only necessary because banks had not been prepared to go through the court process in the first place for fear of having to disclose details of their charging regimes….not sure it went in though. At least I had an opportunity to have a dig at the way A&L and Banks in general have conducted themselves throughout this whole process. Also met A&L legal rep and had a brief chat with him….he didn’t seem to have much of a grasp of what was going on but it filled a couple of minutes while I was waiting to go in. MB

Hey Hils Glad to know I'll not be on my own on 15th. Looks like they've gathered a few of us together to decide on our requests to lift the stays. Anybody else out there? MB

Well, it's been a while but I've rec'd notice that a hearing re my application to lift the stay will take place on 15 Oct. No specific directions included with the notice so due to the short timescales, my initial thought is to just go with the Skeleton argument included in Zoots thread. Anyone got any thoughts on an alternative approach? MB

Hi rhig I've been trying to find out about this over in the A&L section but haven't found anyone who can answer so far. Also, I had my N244 returned by the court yesterday saying the fee is £65 not £35 so it's even more important to know if I'm throwing my money away for good on this. Anyone over here know the score? MB

N244 returned by court yesterday....fee is £65 not £35!! Anyone know if this can be claimed back with other court fees? Also, I'm curious to know if A&L can apply for another stay even if I'm successful in getting the Judges stay set aside.

N244 sent today requesting stay to be set aside. Hope his Hon doesn't take it personally that I don't agree with his decision. I also got that pointless letter from A&L this morning......wasters I bet all these little bankers are feeling quite smug with the way they seem to have got the 'establishment' dancing to their tune:mad:

Court has made an order to stay on it's own initiative without a hearing. Interesting thing that I haven't seen mentioned on other threads in these circumstances is that a specific end time and date (Feb 2008 ) has been set for the stay 'pending the decision in the Commercial Court involving various Banks and the OFT'. Current plan is to request set aside. Anyone know if I can add the £35 charge to my claim?

Hi Zee T&Cs from Dec98 are avaiable at Aliance terms and conditions Good Luck MB65

Hi I think most people have claimed the £20 difference between the standard monthly O/D charge of £5 charged if you stayed within your agreed O/D limit and the £25 charged if you went over the agreed limit. MB

Hi No, I've not been asked to submit anything so I'll hold the CMIS for now and concentrate on learning my arguments to knock back the defence. MB

Hi Skudz Slightly later version of T&Cs available at http://web.archive.org/web/20031229052818/www.alliance-leicester.co.uk/currentaccounts/premier-legals.pdf Doc properties indicates they were drafted in late Oct 03. Good Luck:) MB

Hi Jan & Jenny, thanks for your efforts and advice. I think we've tracked down most threads that cover hearings via phone conference now. Seems they're more or less the same as normal hearings so I'm just going to treat it that way. (It'll be interesting to see if A&L do the same cos they didn't bother to turn up at Jennys direction hearing at Mercantile last month) So now I'm just looking for answers to my 2 questions: 1. Should I send a copy of my nudge letter to court ahead of my hearing? 2. Is it appropriate to send a 'Draft Order for Directions' ahead of my hearing? Oh...I've just come across Jennys thread covering Case Management Info Sheets....is this more some research for me to do? Will I need one of these :? MB

Hi Jan Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I wonder if it's cos I'm lined up for a telephone hearing for directions that's stopping me getting replies. It seems there's not many of us around. Suppose I'll just have to keep reading:roll: ... and hope that I come across a thread that has a similar scenario re a directions hearing where someone has nudged sols and/or sent draft directions to the judge before the hearing. ....right, which banks forums haven't I done the rounds of lately....bye MB...(on a mission:cool: )