this just in from the OFT.. quite interesting. The 2nd page of their letter interests me. I am sure there are enough people on here, with similar issues. I spoke to to the FOS yesterday, about my PPI complaint with Natwest, in respect of the fact that they are taking to long to deal with it.. although there are 8 PPI cases I have with them, I had 3, then nothing for the last couple of weeks - and they all went in at the same time?! The FOS have asked for agreements for all loans relating to each PPI case, and the guy I spoke to there yesterday, said that if Natwest could not produce those agreements, they would be taking a dim view. My PPI case, and lost loan agreement case, are now intrinsically linked, from their point of view. sc0007878e.jpg picture by newward - Photobucket sc0007a8ab.jpg picture by newward - Photobucket sc0007be74.jpg picture by newward - Photobucket or.. Pictures by newward - Photobucket I don't know if anyone saw it, but on BBC1 the other night, on Watchdog, they did a piece on DCA's..their practices etc, etc. I have been thinking strongly about contacting them, to outline my case, and let them know of others in similar circumstances?

will do,thank you

here you go - thoughts please? The Correspondence & Enquiry Unit 2/W1 HM Treasury 1 Horse Guards Road London SW1A 2HQ OFFICIAL COMPLAINT ( WITHOUT PREJUDICE ) Dear Sir/madam I write to you, with regards to an urgent and serious matter for myself, relating to the Natwest/RBS group. Back in December 2008, I made a subject access request to Natwest, for a copy of my Consumer Credit Act 1974. I wished to obtain this document, for use in establishing a case I had already taken up with Natwest, with regards to the largely publicised "mis-selling" of payment protection. To date, Natwest have been unable to provide me with, said agreement. They tell me,via letter, that they have "mislaid", "misfiled", and "despite searching our records, we cannot locate your agreement", and we are therefore unable to comply your request under the CCA 1974. The loan was taken out, March 2006. I have brought my case against them to the following bodies : Financial Ombudsman Service :- the case is still undergoing review with them. Information Commissioner :- I have written to them, re my concerns around data protection, and furthermore the obligation of Natwest, under banking codes, The Companies Act 1985 - specifically in relation to the retention of documents for 5-6 years, and furthermore, and just as concerning, Money Laundering Regulations of 1993,2003,2007. I have spoken with other agencies : I have spoken to Consumer Direct, who have empathised with my issue - they referred me to my local trading standards - who have in turn, referred me to the Financial Ombudsman Service. I have also spoken with my local Citizens Advice Bureau, who have supported my findings, and are interested in the progress of this case. I feel extremely frustrated and angry, how such a large banking organisation, can be so careless with my data, and seem to have a disregard to client confidentiality. I have mentioned above, that I feel,the bank have a duty to understand and comply with the relevant legislation. At the moment, as I see it, they are in contravention of : - Consumer Credit Act 1974 - Data Protection Act - Companies Act 1985, and various money laundering regulations. As a consumer, I feel that my voice needs to be heard, and that the bank should be held to account, on the fact that they are not able to provide a legal document, and to discharge their liabilities, by simply saying, they have mislaid it. This is no way for such a large organisation to conduct business,and their reputation is likely to become further besmirched amongst consumer, if they are not able to give a satisfactory explanation for not being able to locate such an important document I am an active member of Consumer Groups, and through my investigations, I have come across many individuals with identical or similar issues, so this is not an isolated example! I would appreciate your response on this matter.

thank you 42man, I did make them aware of their duties under the Companies Act 85, with regards to retention of documents, and also money laundering regulations, when I issued them their 2nd CPR.

Cheers Davey.. try this Pictures by newward - Photobucket

just in from the ICO.. Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket Confused... you soon will be !!

thx all... I am confident we'll all get there in the end, victory shall be ours!!!!

Letter received from Natwest today.. the 2nd part, doesn't look like a default notice to me, per se.. and doesn't mention CRA's. I will reply to the particular department of Natwest that has sent me this, as I have already received letters from Manchester and Nottingham - how annoying!!! cca1 picture by newward - Photobucket cca2 picture by newward - Photobucket I think I read somewhere about another poster paying an amount, only what they wanted to .. from anyone's experience knowledge on here.. if I paid just say £10 - would that prevent any reporting to the CRA's?? Also, I am considering making them a full and final offer at the end of next month - thats if they haven't come back to me in the coming few weeks with a proposal -can't see that happening though!! Debt outstanding is, approx 20k... loan was originally 18k, taken out over 7 years, 3 ish years ago.. my balance when last checked was near as I say the 20k mark, but I have already paid 12k off over the last few years. If I do decide a full and final settlement, I was going to go in, at say, something like £1000, and thats it..or, if they just won't eat that, perhaps the difference between what the loan was taken out for, what I have paid so far.. which would then leave me with a balance of £6k... thoughts anyone ?

Hi Ashby, I received this reply quite a while ago.. I have stopped paying, I am now 2 months behind.. no letter from Natwest in terms of defaulting me, and although I haven't checked thoroughly, I don't see them reporting me to the CRA's. My case is with the FOS, and if you read my thread, the ICO has my complaint but is many months behind. I have now issued the company with the 2nd CPR, stating it is a LBA- letter before action.. you must also put in the subject title - without prejudice. If you refer to my thread, the only way we may find a degree of finality on this issue, is to litigate ourselves, and take them to court ? I am certainly considering that.. or just offering them a very low amount as full and final settlement. On a more positive note, I am in the process of getting my PPI back from them, on all my loans and credit cards.. could be somewhere in the region of £5-7k. Good luck, and let me know if you need any more help. You may need to find a good consumer lawyer locally, or go to your CAB, and they may be able to put you in touch with one? take care

Trading Standards were pretty useless...in the respect that they agreed that Natwest could not legally enforce my agreement, but that I should keep paying nonetheless.. Their opinion was that if this issue is in the hands of the FOS, they will ajudicate for me, but the best I can hope for is Natwest getting a small fine, something like £500. Natwest have not replied to my CPR request now, and the FOS are aware that Natwest have more than passed the 8 week deadline, in which to reply to me, to resolve the situation, or issue a final communication. What is my next act here? is it an LBA now? or do I issue them a court form?

What are people's thoughts.. my current account is overdrawn, and about £100 over its overdraft limit...mainly due in part, to charges levied against me, mostly due to my loan issue, on this thread. Not sure what to do for best.. I heard from someone that being over your overdraft limit, doesn't sit well with the CRA's and can reflect on you quite badly. I may be able to put some money in to get my balance back to 0, and then get rid of my overdraft - but I am told that even if I am reducing my overdraft, a credit check is done.. and I would have to sign forms etc..obviously I am not going to sign any forms..my problem here is that, if do clear it to 0, then get rid of my overdraft, some way, then Natwest will still try to take the loan payments, even though they know they are unable to?! and then of course I will be overdrawn without a limit! I guess all I can do then, is to then put money in, to cover the charges they make on my account, so that I am not overdrawn.... Currently in no mans land with regards to my loan situation... this month will be the 2nd loan payment I haven't made..

hi there, please refer to my thread, will take a little while to read, but will give you a good chronology of events, and what I am currently doing..

I think it looks fine. Sorry for the delay in replying - best of luck, and keep in touch with me. I'll do the same with mine

Credit Expert, and Experian, I cant remember the other one now.. More calls from Natwest today, hassling me to pay my latest installment. I have sent off a letter to them, about harassment, using the template provided on one of the boards... this is the letter.. Dear Sir/madam > > I write to you concerning previous correspondence we have > had with each > other, the most recent being 27th January 2009. I wish to > express my deep > concern and distress, that this issue is still not > resolved. You have > failed to comply with section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act > 1974, failing > to supply me with a copy of my credit agreement. > > Disappointingly, Natwest have continually harassed me with > regards to > payment of instalments of this loan, which only very > recently, I have > decided to with hold, only after serious thought and > consideration. > > > You are hereby informed, that under Section 40 of the > Administration of > Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act > 1997, > Communications Act (2003) s.127 Natwest are continuing to > breach my > rights. I have made it clear in many previous phone calls, > that you should > refrain from making harassing phone calls to me. My legal > team, and the > FOS have been made aware of this.. > > As you will see from my correspondence, I have been > liaising with an > individual within the bank, who is knowledgeable of my > case, yet I am > still receiving calls from associates within the company, > who ask me to > explain the whole scenario, from beginning to end, as they > have NO NOTES > on their system. This morning, I received a phone call and > become very > distressed by it. I politely asked for the individual to > familiarise > themselves with my case, and then call me back, and we > could then talk. > > This person explained, that she couldn't do that, there > were no notes on > the case on her system, even though I explained that I have > correspondence > from the company, and that this matter is also with the > banks legal team - > as per their letter. She explained that if she was unable > to clear the > matter up with me today.. then I would continue to receive > phone calls? > > I have made the following organisations aware of my issue : > * Consumer Credit Counselling Service > * Citizens Advice Bureau > * Consumer Direct > * Office of Fair Trading > * Trading Standards -my local office, and the local office, > of the Lending > centre, that is currently communicating with me.. > * Information Commissioner - with regards to Data > Protection breaches > * 3 main Credit Reference Agencies > > I also draw your attention with regards to reporting any > default to the Credit Reference Agencies, from the BANKING CODE OF > PRACTICE, 13.6..I understand that you have a duty to report, but under > > 13.6 > > the amount owed is not in dispute; and We are in dispute, so therefore you are unable to report my data.. > > I have been in conversations with the Financial Services > Ombudsman, and > they tell me they have written to yourselves, to encourage > a final > response, which you have not been forthcoming with.. > > Last month I issued you with a formal notice under CPR > 31.16, to which you > are yet to reply. The FOS have also been notified of this.. > > Please take this letter as notice, that I intend to > undertake litigation. > I am currently in consultation, with a specialist lawyer in > Consumer Law, > who will be in touch with yourselves, very soon. >

I think Doris is on the wrong site - think she may be referring to Martin Lewis, on MONEY SAVING EXPERT?!

Our situation is identical.. CAB wrote me a letter - which is on my thread, same sentiments as they have told you, but didn't find them any use apart from that. CCCS - They referred me to Trading Standards, who referred me Consumer Direct - who I already spoke to a month or so back - Consumer Direct, have forwarded my details, and scenario, onto my local Trading Standards, and the trading standards department, of the office that I have been corresponding with - ie Manchester.. Information Commissioner : I spoke to them yesterday - I sent them a letter last month, which they acknowledged - they tell me my case hasn't been allocated yet, as they are still investigating cases from July!!! Financial Services Ombudsman - I spoke to them last week, they tell me that Natwest have until this Friday to issue me with a final communication/proposal - ie that 8 week period they have to come back to me/you with a final response , is nearly up!! CRA's : I wrote to all of the major ones and I have received mixed responses - check my thread for Experians reply, quite interesting, but of course, not conclusive! Separate to the above, nearly a month ago, I issued Natwest wtih a CPR 31.16, as advised to me, on my thread. I am also speaking to someone, who I have met on the Money Saving Expert website. He is in touch with a solicitor, who specialises in Consumer Law. He takes the cost from the other side. I am confident, and quite trusting of this guy. He has been a member of MSE for a few years, and I have read through a lot of advice that has been given by him. I would say your next route is a CPR, and if you feel compelled to do so..get in touch with this guy. But still have the CPR on your side, if you are going to go this alone. Personally, I am running out of ideas/patience on the whole scenario.. to know that you are rightfully excercising your legal rights, but still coming up against so many obstacles, can be so frustrating, but people on here have been great. Keep going, and as when I have updates, I will put this on my thread. Not sure what the MP is going to do..might be worth reading up on him, and checking if he has lobbied that much before, and just how senior he is. Good luck.

Hi sure,just delete as appropriate.. Manchester Retail Customer Service Centre 1 Hardman Boulevard Manchester M60 3NS FORMAL REQUEST FOR INFORMATION CPR part 31.16 Dear Sir/madam Account number: xxxxxxx S/C xxxxxxxx I have previously requested a copy of my loan agreement, which you have been unable to provide – as you “mislaid it” and you state that you “have been unable to locate it.” * I have reason to believe that the agreement may have been improperly executed and/or that no valid or enforceable agreement exists between us * I also believe that I have been mis-sold payment protection I must stress that the particular request, I am making through this letter, is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore unsigned copy ( through lack of the original ). will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances I do not view this as an unreasonable request.. Since this matter is likely to be subject to proceedings, and given that your organisation is likely to be a defendant in any action which would be brought by me, I must draw your attention to Civil Procedure Rules part 31.16(3)©&(D) which gives the court the power to order you to disclose this document to me. The disclosure of these documents will allow me to consider any claim I may have against your organisation and will allow for the matter to be dealt with possibly without the need for costly litigation. Therefore I again ask that you provide me with the documents which I have previously requested . I don't not consider this request unreasonable and therefore if you fail to comply with my request I will be left no option but to make an application to my local County Court for an order made under the provisions of CPR 31.16 ordering you to disclose the documents which i have requested. If this order is thereby granted I understand failure to comply would be considered Contempt of Court. In addition to this,I will ask the court to make an order for my costs in bringing this application and reserve the right to disclose all communications in this matter before the court should such an application become necessary Please confirm by no later than 4pm on 6th February that you will comply with my request or if you will not comply, please provide your reasons in writing. Please also be informed that the Financial Services Ombudsman, The Information Commissioner, and my local branch of Citizens Advice Bureau, in the City of London – together with their legal team, are currently assessing my case. I have also recently written to the OFT, and my local Trading Standards group, in Guildhall, London. I have also made the main Credit Reference Agencies, aware of our current dispute Should you be unwilling to enter into negotiations to resolve this matter out of Court then please pass this correspondence on to your Legal Department for their immediate attention and since this letter is the first stage of intended court action I may be forced to instigate, you are required under the general pre-action protocol of the CPR to send me any information I request. Please therefore supply me with a copy of any and all documents in your possession that you will be relying on as a defence to this claim. All the information you need is on this part of my thread : http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/177986-unenforceable-loan-2.html

by all means, use mine, should be on page 3 of my thread

All I can do is monitor your situation with interest. As you know I have made some enquiries of my own, but what you have received from Natwest, they are yet to furnish me with... best of luck

I hear you.. A lot of people say they are not impartial, and are limbless..the case officer, did sound like she had an interest in this case, and they tell me they have written to Natwest on my behalf as well, to note their concern. I may just use the fact that they cant find the agreement, as a bargaining tool, o pay a much reduced settlement figure. If the loan, was 18k to begin with, I have paid back 12k already, and the loan is still 20k..what would any of you suggest is a reasonable figure. I am thinking 6k.. ie the differential between what I have paid so far altogether, and the amount of the loan?

Its a personal decision to be honest.. on my thread, you'll see I was becoming indecisive, but then took courage of my convictions, and have stopped paying. I have done everything I can, and I am essentially at checkmate with Natwest now. I'll escalate to the FOS again next week,and chase this guy up, who has given my details to his lawyer.

I'd say that you need to issue them now with a CPR. The FOS will not look at your case, until Natwest have issued a final response/or the 8 week deadline has passed from the day I sent my first letter- mine ends next week, and I've already issued the CPR, a few weeks back, nothing back yet, so another one to go out soon - which will give them another few weeks to find an agreement - then its off to court. I have found someone who is willing to take a look at my case. He is an ex-IFA, who is now specialising in un-enforceable loans, and recovering the costs etc,through the lender. Let me know if you want his details.. you have exactly the same issue as me, you're just slightly behind me. Have you asked for PPI back as well? I am getting a gesture of good will from them, on 6 loans/credit card in total, over the coming months. I stopped making payments from last month - have you done so?

Hi ashbypl128, read my threads if you get a chance, just an idea of the ups and downs you're likely to experience over the coming months!

Hi Biggles, if you check my thread out, you will see that I have constructed the letter with the help of Davey, and a stickie from the legal section. A 31.16 is something that you issue to the company, when you intend to go down the Civil Prosecution route, as I understand it. You may have done a subject access request like me, quoting various parts of the CCA 1974 etc.. but this is essentially to make the company aware that you intend to instigate proceedings against them. You give them about 4 weeks to reply. Again, as I understand it, the LBA - letter before action, is a 2nd chaser letter, perhaps slightly more aggressive in tone, asking why they haven't replied to your first letter, and to inform them you are now taking legal action.. then I think you need to get an N1 form or something - all those kinds of details are within the legal forum. You don't have to worry about courts and costs, and these forms, etc yet, as you are essentially giving the bank, another 2 months ( up to ) to respond to you...You use the letters to get them to heed your warning that you are very serious. From what I read on other posts, its only when the threat of litigation surfaces, do they actually sit up and take notice. Its like, I'll see you in court please, and by the way, bring this document that we are talking about please.. oh you dont have it? it can literally go one of two ways, you'll either have a judge that will take the company to task on record keeping etc, or a judge who will take a view on you, rather than the actual law. I'm speaking to someone at the moment, who I mentioned earlier. He is now speaking with a specialist solicitor.. I'll report back on here, the conversations we have. On a separate note, I was sent a letter offering a gesture of good will , related to a PPI claim .. £600.. only another 6 letters- different loans I have settled, to come to me.. should average out at that amount for each letter.

Ok, so this is obviously up to you guys. I just text him, this is his e-mail : peter@loanclaimers.com . He tells me he is meeting with lawyer with a view to commencing cases within the next couple of weeks. I have watched this guy post on MSE over the last couple of months. He really knows his stuff, and is not touting for business on that site. I have e-mailed only the documents I have posted on this forum( ie with personal details edited out ). I'm no mug, if you know what I mean, and I truly believe its worth speaking to this guy..at least even send a speculative e-mail to him, check some of his posts on MSE. Let me know what you guys think?