Hi - see my post on rory thread: Hi Pinky - ask them for the entire document, there is a reverse to your page. They have just sent me one although I am unsure if it is actually the reverse. I am going to request the true copy in its entirety under CPR. Better that you make sure they don't have everything before it gets rough.

Hi Pinky - ask them for the entire document, there is a reverse to your page. They have just sent me one although I am unsure if it is actually the reverse. I am going to request the true copy in its entirety under CPR. Better that you make sure they don't have everything before it gets rough.

Hi Taz - sorry to intrude on this thread, I too have a similar issue with Co-Op and have recieved 1. DN word for word the same as yours - this was in March for me. 2. Letter as per your last attachment with a copy of the front page of an application form and a printout of internet terms etc. (Never even had the internet in 1999 but they infer I must have "clicked" to accept....?) in June 2009. I have sent three letters and now have had a call from their risk team (step before legal dept she told me) and want to know when can I pay? I've requested the CCA again on the phone (I know I shouldn't discuss with them verbally but I can't help it...:o). Problem with Coop is had they not added purchases and withdrawels to my account after it was cloned last year I wouldn't have even started looking at validity etc. Discovered numerous cloned and fraud transactions.

Hi Received a letter from coop stating they had complied and referred me to an internet copy of t&C's... never had the internet when I made any application as this CC was part of the NR together mortgage although I cannot remember applying for a cc. Nevertheless it is possible the application was in the bundle of other paperwork. If it had a notice to cancel I would have cancelled it as I had no desire to have another CC I've only had one which I use frugally. This NR/Coop card has a fortune on it which has been subjected to cloning - another story - but in the meantime I want to see why I even have it! Can anyone have a quick read of this reply I've done to make sure I havene't stated anything I shouldn't have? Thanks Re: Your recent reply to my request under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Thank you for your reply dated 23rd June 2009 stating that you believe you have fulfilled your obligations under the above act. Unfortunately I must inform you that the response provided is either mistaken or misguided. You have not provided a true copy of the executed agreement under the above act as you stated both on 5th and 23rd June 2009. The item sent to me was merely a completed application form. Whilst it is possible that such an application may suffice it would only do so if the document contains the prescribed terms and right of cancellation as detailed in schedule 6 of The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 SI 1983 No.1553 and the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The application form you have provided did not contain any prescribed terms as you admit in your opening statement in the letter dated 23rd June 2009 specifically that you have provided a set of terms and conditions that would have been relevant when I may have signed the application form. These terms and conditions are an Internet copy and of which I did not and could not have agreed to; I did not obtain Internet service until 2002. May I also draw your attention to the following case where prescribed terms were discussed: Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299 Stuckey LJ at para 33, “In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the fourcorners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement…” (My emphasis) I am therefore for the final time requesting a true copy of an executed agreement which has the prescribed terms and right of cancellation within one document accepting that the one document may consist of more than one page. Internet copies of terms do not fall within this description (unless the application was made using the Internet) and therefore are not in compliance with my lawful request. I have requested copies of executed agreements from any company showing a debt held in my name due on my credit file and due to your failure to supply the information requested I now consider this account officially in dispute and subsequently do not acknowledge any debt held in my name. Please be aware that I am not an individual who has seen numerous misleading adverts from charlatan companies determined to undermine the law; I am a legally educated individual aware of the rights and obligations of the consumer and the companies with whom individuals trade. If you are not in possession of the executed agreement including all prescribed terms and right of cancellation or if such a document does not exist, I urge you to notify me as soon as possible. If you are in possession or can obtain the executed agreement then I urge you to forward a copy to me within seven working days. If you cannot supply the executed agreement please note that I will be happy to enter into discussion with you to resolve the issues and obstacles it raises. Please be aware that any express or implied permission to share my personal data with any third party is rescinded in full until this dispute is resolved. Any violation of these rights will be notified to the Data Commissioner. I also would like to notify you that any further communication should now be in writing to ensure all correspondence is recorded for future reference. Telephone calls from you will not be responded to and repeat attempts at verbal communication will be denied and referred to you for a written communication. Any attempted harassment from any employee or department will not be tolerated. Please be aware of your legal and regulatory obligations when an account is in dispute particularly what you may and may not initiate. Once again I assure you that my intention is and has never been to evade any legally enforceable debt and ask you sincerely to comply with my third and final request. Yours faithfully,

Thanks for replies. I'm annoyed that it is so difficult to get this! I already have a copy of the orginal application form but don't have any agreement - although the application form they have sent is signed by the bank and dated some 30 days after my dated signature. I'm also concerned because I never received anything after the application such as my statutory right to cancel (This was in 2000 by the way) or the prescribed terms. I need to get the original to check if any terms were on the reverse I think as it refers to overleaf in the small text. I think I'll use the CPR route for this because even though I have not disputed this account I think I will due to them not sending the entire document to begin with. If they send the right stuff, I'll resume payments.

Hi - sorry if this is the wrong forum. Joined CAG couple of years ago but never posted.... Sorry for the other thread in general issues. i'm not sure how to remove it. Can anyone advise whether I'm doing the right thing? Let me point out I am not trying to get out of paying, merely attempting to establish the enforcability of the CCA. I wrote to Co-Op asking for the executed credit agreement and they have sent back my application form which was contained within the dreaded NR together mortgage product. The application is titled Credit Agreement regulated by the CCA 1974 along the top and then: Together Variable Credit Card Application. It has personal details, security details box, protection box, declaration to issue a card plus agreement to be bound by terms overleaf, my signature, right to cancel box, and balance transfer request box. They have only sent this copy with no reverse copy. They have additonally sent an internet copy of T & C's. In the right to cancel box they state they will send me details of how to cancel by post. There are no prescribed terms such as credit limit or variable credit limit or any other reference. I have written this letter and wonder if anyone could let me know if this is ok? Its a mash of various other letters I've seen on here. As I've said, I'm not trying to evade, merely get a copy of the document. Let me know if anything is wrong...? Thanks8-) Dear Sir / Madam Account Number: xxxxxxxxxxxx Re: Your recent reply to my request under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Thank you for your swift response. Please note that I am not trying to evade any legally enforceable debt rather I am trying to obtain any/all credit agreements that may show an existing debt held in my name. Unfortunately, I note that you have replied to the above by sending the application form and an Internet copy of the terms and conditions that may or may not have been applicable. Unfortunately this is not sufficient to comply with my initial request and was stated in the opening paragraph of my letter to you dated 30th May 2009. To clarify, sending only the application form and the terms and conditions may constitute a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the actual executed agreement. If it is your belief that this application form does constitute the agreement please send the true copy which must include the prescribed terms as detailed below. As you will know section 180(1) (b) states that, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form” is permitted. This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 SI 1983 No.1557 which state: 3 General requirements as to form and content of copy documents (1) Subject to the following provisions of these Regulations, every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall be a true copy thereof. (2) There may be omitted from any such copy-- (a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy; (b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of the signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies); It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document; this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations. Nowhere within these regulations does it state that the agreement can be presented as an application form and with terms and conditions of which cannot be proven to have existed at the time. It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented. Further, schedule 6 The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 SI 1983 No.1553 details the prescribed terms of which must be present in any credit agreement regulated by the Act. I reproduce an extract: Credit limit 3. Agreements for running-account credit. A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit. Rate of interest 4. Agreements for (a) running-account credit; and (b) fixed-sum credit falling within the exceptions: -- A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement. Repayments 5. Consumer credit agreements. A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-- (a) number of repayments; (b) amount of repayments; © frequency and timing of repayments; (d) dates of repayments; (e) the manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable. I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable and I await a true copy of my executed agreement. Please can I remind you again that should the request not be complied with it may be necessary to consider the account in dispute. I am aware that you may need to contact Northern Rock PLC to obtain a true copy; due to this delay I would ask that you respond within 30 days. Yours faithfully

Hi I'm new on here and wonder if anyone can advise whether I'm doing the right thing? Let me point out I am not trying to get out of paying merely attempting to establish the enforcability of the CCA. I wrote to Coop asking for the executed credit agreement and they have sent back my application which was contained within the dreaded NR together mortgage product. The application is titled Credit Agreement regulated by the CCA 1974 along the top and then: Together Variable Credit Card Application. It has personal details, security details box, protection box, declaration to issue a card plus agreement to be bound by terms overleaf, my signature, right to cancel box, and balance transfer request box. They have only sent this copy with no reverse copy. They have additonally sent an internet copy of T & C's. In the right to cancel box they state they will send me details of how to cancel by post. There are no prescribed terms such as credit limit or variable credit limit or any other reference. I have written this letter and wonder if anyone could let me know if this is ok? As I've said, I'm not trying to evade, merely get a copy of the document. Dear Sir / Madam Account Number: xxxxxxxxxxxx Re: Your recent reply to my request under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Thank you for your swift response. Please note that I am not trying to evade any legally enforceable debt rather I am trying to obtain any/all credit agreements that may show an existing debt held in my name. Unfortunately, I note that you have replied to the above by sending the application form and an Internet copy of the terms and conditions that may or may not have been applicable. Unfortunately this is not sufficient to comply with my initial request and was stated in the opening paragraph of my letter to you dated 30th May 2009. To clarify, sending only the application form and the terms and conditions may constitute a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the actual executed agreement. If it is your belief that this application form does constitute the agreement please send the true copy which must include the prescribed terms as detailed below. As you will know section 180(1) (b) states that, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form” is permitted. This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 SI 1983 No.1557 which state: 3 General requirements as to form and content of copy documents (1) Subject to the following provisions of these Regulations, every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall be a true copy thereof. (2) There may be omitted from any such copy-- (a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy; (b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of the signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies); It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document; this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations. Nowhere within these regulations does it state that the agreement can be presented as an application form and with terms and conditions of which cannot be proven to have existed at the time. It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented. Further, schedule 6 The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 SI 1983 No.1553 details the prescribed terms of which must be present in any credit agreement regulated by the Act. I reproduce an extract: Credit limit 3. Agreements for running-account credit. A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit. Rate of interest 4. Agreements for (a) running-account credit; and (b) fixed-sum credit falling within the exceptions: -- A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement. Repayments 5. Consumer credit agreements. A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-- (a) number of repayments; (b) amount of repayments; © frequency and timing of repayments; (d) dates of repayments; (e) the manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable. I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable and I await a true copy of my executed agreement. Please can I remind you again that should the request not be complied with it may be necessary to consider the account in dispute. I am aware that you may need to contact Northern Rock PLC to obtain a true copy; due to this delay I would ask that you respond within 30 days. Yours faithfully