Hi guys Bit of a update on this case too My daughter finally recieved a letter yesterday (13.2.15) saying it is going to diciplinary the letter is dated 28.1.15 postmarked 11.2.15 They have dropped one allegation the one about "just fake them up" with regards to patient obs so that's good her Union rep was glad that one was gone The letter goes on about how the trust between them and my daughter has been broken and a lot of other emotional blackmail kind of stuff reads very much like she's done it her Union rep says "let's get the other 2 batted out I don't think you have much to worry about" so that's hopeful With regards to the paitent complaint I don't know whether I have already stated this but we know this patient sadly passed away end of November last year so not to sound harsh but where else can they go with this really? The other allegation you may remember is with regards to things she was supposed to have done in July that wasn't bought to her attention till oct her Union rep doesn't think it's much to worry about because she did speak to her ward sister about her being told my daughter was calling her behind her back my daughter recieved a letter about that there was nothing in that letter with regards to swearing in front of patients or talking derogatory about them which she has since been accused of and her ward sister claims she spoke to her about of course untrue She doesn't have the letter she recieved during that time anymore but she does have a friend who read it and has said she will be a witness to what it said I have told her to request a copy as they told her it would stay on file But convoluted I know but has been rumbling along so long remember the girl that changed her statement? She has been discussing the case on the ward with other people so my daughter has put in a formal grievance So much going on and I would worry a whole lot more without all of your help thanks to each and every one of you let me know what you think Thanks guys

Hi Guys Thanks again for all comments My daughter did speak to her Union rep again about going alone he said there is more chance of him being able to make a diciplinary hearing as the meeting is on Monday he can't make it anyway He has assured her she will be fine he has told her to discuss practically nothing but her statement as it is investigation that is all they should be discussing She feels confident she is determined to clear this up so I have faith in her her Union rep has also told her if she feels the meeting is going into something else she should stop the meeting and ring him So my thoughts are will they just discuss her statement? Will they talk about the whole day? The reason I ask is because this child's mother said and did some very iffy things about and to her child during that day Also what will happen with regards to my daughter hopefully going back? Can she ask to not work in that room the 1 day this child attends? Can she ask to not work with his mother? Can she ask anything like that? She said she wouldn't he happy if they moved her to another room full time because she has done nothing wrong and if she ends up moving it will look like guilt so she wouldn't be happy with that her plan is to go back clear her name hopefully avoid a diciplinary and get another job but her contract says she has to do 4 weeks notice so even if she had a job offer now she would have to go back for 4 weeks Thanks again for all your thoughts guys it really does help Thanks

Hi King Thanks for reply There is no CCTV and you are right it is a false allegation But of an update my daughter has a investigation meeting Monday her Union rep has assured her she will be fine on her own she is nervous but determined to get the truth across I will update on Monday Thanks guys

Hi Emmzzi Thanks for your reply I think they should have rang when they said they would and she wouldn't have put so many calls in everytime she has managed to get hold of them they have had info to tell her She can't get in trouble for trying to find out what has happened I'm sure her Union rep will second that Thanks again

Hi guys But of a update my daughters manager and area manager had a meeting with Lado yesterday as I explained in my earlier post Lado have said it is not a safeguarding issue and the matter should be dealt with internally so I am thinking that is good news My daughter put many phone calls in yday afternoon because she was eager to know what happened she was told she would receive a call "in a min" then "within the hour" when she finally spoke to the area manager she explained everything to her and told her she would ring her today (Friday) she said to my daughter "if I don't there's no need to chase me up" my daughter was upset by this she just feels like she is trying to clear her name She is upset about what her colleagues think of her I told her not to worry anyway they said she may have a investigation meeting Monday but I doubt her Union rep will be free so soon I will of course let you all know but the Lado responce is a good thing right? Thanks again guys for all your help Thanks guys

Hi Bill You are right and now my daughter is talking of getting out of it also which is a shame she has worked hard for where she is They have tonight sent the deputy manager to hand deliver a letter just stating that she is suspended on the advice of Lado then it says they have a meeting with Lado tomorrow so who knows what will happen I am hoping you are right and it all blows over she has found some good points in her policies and procedures regarding this kind of thing it does state that she should have been confronted immediately and any delay in reporting what was seen would result in the "reporter and the witness" being subject to the same diciplinary procedures as my daughter of course that hasn't happened they are not suspended and are still at work I will let you know tomorrow as soon as we hear Thanks again

Sorry Bill should have said Yes I have managed to secure a union rep for her Thanks

Hi Guys Thanks so much to you both for your replies My daughter rang her employer yesterday around 2 pm and asked for a update here is the allegation They claim she grabbed a child by the arm "took him to the floor" and restrained him they also claim they have a witness What really happened was My daughter was sat cross legged on the floor with a child on her lap the child ( who is the biter) crawled out of the box stood up and attempted to push a child over my daughter leant forward with the child still in her lap this was right in front of her and picked the child up from behind under his armpits she sat him on her left knee after moving the other child to her right knee the child squirmed my daughter believes he wanted to go to his mum who was doing a hand over with another parent my daughter turned him to face her putting his legs either side of her knee she rubbed his back reassuring him it was ok and he could see mummy in a min after bidding the parent and child leaving goodbye she stood the child up and told him he could now go to mummy which he did and she picked him up Nothing was said to my daughter by anyone including the child's mother in the 30 mins or so after that before she went home we don't know who the witness is I believe itbis my daughters room colleague but my daughter doesn't because she was messaging her asking what was wrong and where she had gone The nursery runs a quite fearful atmosphere amongst the staff General feeling is it is "dog eat dog" that phrase is used a lot there so a witness backing a story up that didn't happen is not surprising Anyway my daughter was told that her manager and operations manager have a meeting with "lado " tomorrow (Thursday) she was asked to write a statement and send it in or email one over my daughter asked ok do you need that for Thursday? She was told no not really be nice to have it but it's not urgent :-/ after having a read up on what Lado is it seems a little like they have made thier mind up despite telling my daughter on the phone I am not saying any of this is true Anyway she emailed her version of events she was told they didn't need to know about the whole day just that incident so she had not been able to tell them all the other incidents that day involving this child and his mother Thanks again I will update hopefully Thursday afternoon please let me know any thoughts in the meantime Thanks guys

Hi Guys I have started a new thread as this issue is with regards to another of my daughters for those that are aware or are helping with my other thread this issue is still ongoing Anyway back to this daughter,she is a level 3 qualified nursery nurse works in a private nursery and has done for 2.5 years She arrived at work on Friday morning and her manager and deputy to be told she was being suspended when she asked why her manager said "I'm not going into it now" so she was sent home rang Acas when she got home because she wanted to know could they suspend her without telling her why they said that this could but online it says that they can't She rang her manager and asked again why she had been suspended the manager said she would ring someone and ring her back she didn't, my daughter also rang the area manager and left a message later that day the area manager rang and said my daughter would be hand delivered a letter stating why she had been suspended at some point today (Friday) At around teatime (my daughters shift started at 8am) she recieved another call from her area manager saying that she couldn't deliver her a letter as she hadn't been able to get home of the safeguarding people all day they said they would ring today (Monday) to see how she was My daughter has racked her brains and can only come up with one possible issue this could be about she had a little boy in her room who's mother also works at the nursery and also works in the same room as her child he is 14 months old and a biter he had only recently moved to my daughters room and there has been at least 1 incident of biting another child each time he was there (he does 1 day a week) On Thursday when my daughter last worked they had a "mock ofsted" visit so everyone was on edge my daughter had witnessed this mother practically deny this child was hers when the "ofsted" people were in the room by making remarks such as "mummy has forgot to put spare socks in your bag" etc she also stated to my daughter she wish she could have "him picked up while mock ofsted was there" she has stated she "couldn't have him full time" she said to my daughter just before he moved over to her room some 3/4 months ago "just to let you know I have no control over him" she has also told my daughter and the manager "if you let him keep his dummy he won't bite anyone" this is something the nursery do not allow When he does pin another child down to bite them she laughs and makes comments such as "that's enough cuddles now" and on one occasion in his previous room where he did bite another child and left a nasty Mark on her face she said to the injured child "you shouldn't have took his dummy out then should you" She also wrote this on the "incident" form causing the manager to raise in the next staff meeting that incident forms should not be written in a way that blames the child We do not know what has been said but my daughters colleague who also works in her room has told her that this mother was in and out the room all day after my daughters suspension being called away by management our feeling is that my daughter has spoke to the manager several times about this Childs behaviour she text her manager on Thursday evening and asked for a meeting the following day to discuss his behaviour because it has quite an impact on the room and the other children During Thirsday last week my daughters last working day she returned from her lunch to find the 2 other members of staff putting wellies on the children this child had a little girl pinned down and he was biting the back of her neck my daughter walked over to him picked him up stood him on his feet the child on the floor was extremely distressed she straightened his clothing and took him over to a activity she knows he likes she then went back and picked up the upset child who had slobber on the back of her neck and comforted her all this time the child's mother was saying "that's enough cuddles now ahhhhh" I know we can't really do anything until we know what the allegation is and I have managed to secure her a union rep just wanted your thoughts? Thanks guys

Hi Just a quick non update really Still ongoing with this still no date for diciplinary still no official letter recieved to state it is going to diciplinary my daughter has recieved the notes that were taken at the investigation meeting on 3.11.14 However they bare no reflection on what was said we are not sure who took the notes there was 4 people present and they were both asking questions and answering questions to my daughter and her Union rep her Union rep is not listed on the "people present" but at the end of page 1 he asks a questions and this is recorded with his initials All still very sloppy not being handled properly daughter still off the ward I will update further soon as anything happens thanks guys

Thank you Bill they helped very much and if you don't mind I will keep you updated Merry Xmas

Hi Em Thanks again for the rather angry post. I at no time implied you were thick nor would I however your sarcasm is also always welcome As I said this has been dragging on for a long time and we have no choice but to think and to plan for every eventuality this is what my post is designed to do This is not a difference of opinion here the facts are the facts and I will state them whether you believe our actions are overkill or not Thanks again and a merry Xmas to you too.

Hi Bill Just to clarify I'm sorry if I have confused you my daughter was told verbally on 18th December that she is being taken to diciplinary she has recieved no letter stating this and no date has been set for the hearing the matron has just verbally told her it is going to diciplinary the weekly meetings my daughter has been having with her ward sister were designed to see how she was getting on to make her feel she was still a member of the team Since being told it is going to diciplinary the meetings once a week will now be with the matron not the ward sister and the first one is scheduled for a week today I hope that clears things up As soon as we have a date for the actual hearing I will update I can not tell you how much I appreciate your help Thank you

Bill Thanks so much for your reply I am going to sit and read it and reply to any questions you have thanks again Emmzi Where are you getting that we are expecting next weds meeting to be anything more than I stated? We KNOW it's not a meeting to discuss anything about the situation Thanks

I never said she had any power but she hasn't done anything wrong and this has dragged on long enough she knows nothing will come from the meeting next Wednesday and she isn't expecting anything to I was stating the facts as they are.

Hi Emmzi Unfortunately the "ramble" is the facts and in order for people to understand I have to state the facts the meeting next Wednesday is supposed to be a "how you getting on we will keep you buttered up and pretend we care meeting" and yes that is due to take place a week on wednesday Thanks

At this time I anticipate that the investigation needed will take 4 weeks, if the period of investigation exceeds four weeks I will write to you every four weeks after that to confirm the anticipated timescale for completion of the investigation. You will be informed as soon as possible of the outcome of the investigation, if the conclusion of the investigation is that the matters need to be considered at a disciplinary hearing you will be advised in advance of the date and time and will be given documentation from the investigation in order to prepare for the hearing This is what is stated in the paperwork my daughter recieved back in oct the 14th NONE of this has happened she has had to chase up every update her self she has had weekly meeting with the ward sister who she was told early on not to discuss anything with so she sat for 10 mins listening to her chatting about her life and the weather since being told it is going to diciplinary she had to meet with the matron on a different ward the first scheduled meeting is next weds

Hi Emmzi She is ok where she is she is with a nice group of people the fact is she shouldn't be there but she can't go back to that ward either Thanks

Hi Billathome Thanks again for your reply we really do appreciate your reading this and asking questions I can not emphasise enough how sloppy this has been and how badly my daughter has been treated I would just first like to say that we completely understand things have to be investigated especially in the work my daughter does but when you hear some of the things that has and continues to happen here it is getting very ridiculous please please bear with me for this long post I am so anxious to tell someone the facts here and have them understand how bad this is so thanks again I will now do my best to answer your questions 1. My daughter was given a bunch of paperwork describing the policies and procedures when it comes to this sort of thing back in oct when she was initially given the investigation or allegation letter I have asked her to check it today and see if any guidance timelines are listed there so I will let you know 2. Allegation #1 was alleged to have taken place on 28th Sept my daughter wasn't told about it or asked about it till 2nd oct she was asked along with the other HCA who was accused they both wrote a statement on that day saying what had happened which was nothing briefly my daughter was filling in a property book after the death of a patient a agency nurse and the other HCA entered the patients room the agency nurse came out and told my daughter to assist the othe HCA in cleaning the patient up she had had a large bowel movement my daughter finished filling in the book as it is a legal document probably took her 1.5/2 mins during this time the other HCA was alone in patients room my daughter then went into patients room and assisted the other HCA in cleaning patient up and making her comfortable the patient stated in her statement that we believe was written by her daughter that a nurse entered her room after my daughter and the other HCA had left and had to clean her up as she had bowel movement on her legs there was no record of any other nurse on the ward that night either on the rota or on the chart that has to be signed when a patient is dealt with they however have spent 6 weeks trying to track down this mystery nurse the patient was able to describe my daughter and the other HCA but she was not able to describe the mystery nurse we believe my daughter was the mystery nurse we believe that the agency nurse and the other HCA entered her room the agency nurse then told my daughter to assist when my daughter did so the patient did in fact have bowel movement all over there legs we believe in her confusion the patient believes she was left in this state for longer that she actually was 3. Both my daughter and the other HCA wrote statements on 2nd oct regarding patient complaint both explained what happened both stated the other did nothing untoward towards the patient the other HCA changed her statement we do not know when my daughter was asked to attend the ward she was not allowed on to type up her statement she had already written however in the 2nd oct she wrote a statement only about the patient complaint by the time she was asked to type it up she had 2 more allegations to face 3. As stated at the beginning we understand things need investigating my daughter was accused of saying she " just fakes them up" when it comes to patient obs she was accused of saying this on 2nd oct however the agency nurse she allegedly said it to didn't report it till 9th oct and she has had no repercussion for not reporting it earlier to our knowledge this was allegedly said in a day shift with the ward sister feet away just after my daughter had wrote a statement about a patient complaint 4.we are unsure as to when the other HCA changed her statement y daughter knows they were written on the 2nd oct she was told she had changed hers at the investigation meeting on 3rd November 5.my daughter asked what was happening with regards to the other HCA who we know is already on a warning she was assured everyone is being treated the same however to the beat of our knowledge the other HCA has not been investigated and in still on the ward to this day my daughter was told her was going further because she had 3 allegations to answer 6. Yes my daughter was made to type up her statement approx 2 weeks after being took off the ward the only reason given was that it needed typing up 7.the other HCA has stated to another colleague she was "coerced" into changing her statement 8.my daughter has never been accused of anything like this before 9.my daughter was told by the HR lady who was present at the investigation meeting that they could not take the patient complaint any further as they could not find the mystery nurse I mentioned earlier we know this patient has died however my daughter who probably shouldn't be hasn't been told the lady has passed away 10.my daughter still has hand over notes from the night of the alledged incident with patient it states that she is confused due to a drug she was receiving due to brain cancer my daughter also has hand over notes from a few days prior stating the same thing however at the investigation meeting they said they had investigated if the patient was confused and she wasn't 11.we do not know if the patient had a urinary tract infection but she did have a catheter 12.there was only 1 complaint made by a patient that is the sept one that my daughter was told about in oct the July incident is a bank nurse who is a good friend of my daughters ward sister my daughter hardly spoke to her all evening and for a reason we do not know she has made allegations of my daughter called her ward sister a b**** and being rough with patient and talking inappropriately in front of patients back in July my daughter was asked about calling the ward sister a b**** no mention of patients was made at that time she was asked if she was comfortable and happy on the ward and did she feel she could go to her ward sister for help my daughter said yes and denied making the statement she was accused of that was the end of it she recieved a letter she was told would remain in her file stating they had spoken and that was the end of it no mention of patients in that letter either unfortunately my daughter doesn't have her original copy but she did tell the investigation to check her file the ward sister is now saying she spoke to my daughter about patients back in July and the matron who was then in charge has since retired so it is her word against my daughters No notes were taken in July with regards to patients because she wasn't spoken to about patients but again nothing is being bought against anyone that has lied or failed to report alleged offences my daughter allegedly commited The union rep in the investigation meeting asked if they had proof my daughter "faked" up obs they said no he said if they did this sort of thing to everyone accused of talking about someone behind thier back they would have no staff still it has gone further The matron said it was a HR decision based on statements and interviews they have conducted as she has recieved no letter yet to state what they are diciplining her for exactly we have no clue if the patient complaint is being carried on or if it is just based on 2 people's lies that worked with my daughter on 1 occasion once my daughter has in fact seen the person from the July allegations in another part of the hospital she had no idea who my daughter was strange considering the lengthy statement she wrote that my daughter caught a glimpse of at the investigation meeting stating she "challenged" my daughter several times for her behaviour I believe her ward sister is behind it all she has told people no good to my daughter I know but she has told people she wants her off the ward and after the investigation meeting the union rep said to my daughter someone has a knife out for you obviously my daughter will not be able to work with these people again but she will clear her name and then file grievances against everyone that lied about her it is all so unfair I am so sinceley sorry for the length of this post please please ask if anything is unclear and thanks again for all your help

Hi Emmzi She is not suspended she has been moved to a "non clinical" area she is in a office putting letters in envelopes at the minute Thanks for reply

Hi billathome Thanks so much for your reply I have just got in from work but I will answer your q,s in detail tomorrow I will then also have a chance to check I have the right facts with my daughter thanks again really appreciate you reading my post

Sorry just need to add the Hca who was originally reported by the patient with my daughter has been allowed to change her statement and has said my daughter did in fact do what she is accused of when my daughter challenged them about her being allowed to change it they said her first statement didn't count as it was written on the wrong paper and was a "reflective log" And the other thing the ward sister has also lied and told them that she did in fact talk to my daughter back in July about her alleged roughy handling of paitents but that isn't true and the letter my daughter recieved on 31.7 makes no mention of it either

Hi Guys Seems such a long long time since I started this thread I wonder if anyone will be shocked to learn this is still ongoing? As I stated my daughter has a union rep the investigation meeting took place on 3rd November and we waited and waited and waited making many phone calls chasing up a decision being told by the matron her last week off the ward would be 4 weeks ago now my daughter is still off the ward on one occasion the matron said I will ring you Monday with a decision and went on annual leave for 2 weeks so she knew she wouldn't be ringing on the Monday when she said it Thursday 18th December last week!! She was told to attend a meeting at matrons office just her and matron to be told after the matron forgot and was reminded why she was there that she is being taken to diciplinary my daughter has recieved no letter stating this no reason why we know that the patient who made the complaint has sadly died my daughter was told verbally by HR that that allegation is dropped so they are taking her to diciplinary for 2 people telling lies about her she has now got all this worry over Xmas been told the meeting won't be till middle of Jan at the earliest by then this saga will have dragged on 3 months Any thoughts?

Hi Emmzzi Thanks again in the last hour my daughter has obtained a union rep so hopefully this will make a difference in her defence I don't think she could have raised a issue about her ward sister before she enrolled her friend in helping her get my daughter the sack but hopefully it will get sorted Thanks

Hi Emmzzi Thanks for reply Sorry for length of post I suppose I have many questions 1. Can a person be bought up on investigation like this on 3 accounts of hearsay? 2. The meeting to discuss my daughters statement is 24th so they can investigate what are they investigating? And how can they prove hearsay? 3. Does a person going to DON 3 months after a alleged incident not look petty? 4. Why should they be allowed to do that with No repercussions? 5. I think it is evident my daughter is being bullied by her ward sister even to the point that I think she has asked for her friends input is there not a law against this? I think it is unfair for people to try and ruin a 23 year olds career she has done care since leaving school previously working in a care home for 4 years with no problems I am sorry if this long story is coming across as petty to you I just don't like bullying. Thanks