Weird Al, i know you are famous for your sense of humour, but you seemed to have woefully mis-spelt West Ham United.

Thanks sillgirl1 ! Not only is it great to have advice from someone who has used this account, but it also makes me feel less cynical! (or at least justified to feel so!)

No problem Mauritius! My "less than rose tinted specs" come from years working in the banking industry! The suggestion would work in the same way as the account you mentioned, except YOU are in control ! (and not getting charged for the priviledge, as long as you are sensible!)

Well, the "old" big four were HSBC (previously Midland), Barclays, Natwest and Lloyds. Of course that's no longer the case as the Hong King and Shangai took over Midland, Natwest are now part of Royal Bank of Scotland (or vice versa, I must learn to keep up!), Lloyds and TSB are now one and the same, Barclays took over the woolwich and now Halifax are HalifaxBos (Bank of Scotland) it's all changing, as I'm sure you know sequenci and will no doubt continue to change, along with Abbey (Santander), Barclays proposed takeover of ABN etc etc etc. Hence I put the "Big 4" in inverted comma's, they long since ceased to exist!

As previously mentioned the OP has stopped anwering questions. Actually I think they only answered one and that wasn't really well answered or explained - in my opinion. Trusting that your question was rhetorical deadlykiss, I think we all know the answer. They think they are above the law with regard to benefits and they are chargind to make even bigger profits from those who can least afford it. Why? Because until the good people on this website and similar came along, no-one had stood up to them!

I haveno idea why they keep the numbers. Presumably they will say that it's for the "customer's convenience". They have a duty to keep the information they hold safe, the same as any other financial institution.

Also just spotted this: There is a one-off set up cost of £25 which is taken from the first credit to be paid into your account. and this You can choose to have a second card for additional account holders for £5.00 per month. Personally I think this is a rip off! Rbos get to keep the bills money for as long as necessary and earn interest on it, and you, whose money it is, get to have a Maestro card to withdraw funds and pay for things in shops/online. What happens when you need to send money somewhere? What happens if one of your creditors/househol expenditure companies ask for more money (ie your subscription goes up etc) ? Too expensive, not enough benefits and, in my opinion, cynically preying on those who are least able to afford it.

£12.50 to do what exactly? Basically, they will "hold" all the money necessary for your DDs and STOs etc to be paid and "release" the rest to you. How kind! And what about any cheques you've written etc? Who gets the interest on the "held" money whilst they are waiting for the DD originators to request it etc? I'll give you two guesses!! Whilst I am sure that on the face of it this seems a good idea, personally I wouldn't pay ANYONE £12.50 for something I can do myself. The simplest way is sure to have your salary paid in to your bank account, work out what your debits add up to and transfer the rest in to another account to use as your monthly "spends" if you can't trust yourself not to use the bills money! Sorry, this is just my personal opinion, but I think it's unnecessary expense.

Well I'm pleased you got the charge back! From experience I will tell you that if this happens again it may well not be so easy to get a refund though. Of course I understand that the previous Ts and Cs you were under suited your life-style better, in that you could nip down to bank and pay in money if necessary on the same business day as the debit, however this will not be the case with Barclays. I guess it comes down to planning. On the online banking site you can go into "all payment options" and have a route around your Direct Debits to see what day of the month they normally go out, that way, hopefully, ensuring that you're always covered. The other option of course would be to change to paying by Standing Order and thereby controlling the date the money goes out yourself when you set them up. Very pleased you have the refund. If you don't have the Ts and Cs of the new account, I would request some from Barclays and have a read through to make sure there aren't too many differences from what you are used to.

So, either the ebay account or the paypal account or both were subject to fraud. The credit card holder has claimed on their internet fraud protection scheme and got their money back, as they should. The credit card company have asked Paypal to return the money paid to them fraudulently and they have done so, as they are bound to do under the law. This is where it gets murky... Paypal have decided, in their infinate wisdom, to take the money they are now owed from YOU, the recipient of the fraudulent funds. You will need to take this up with paypal and get as much info out of them as they can. You could try asking why they didn't just claim against their indemnity insurance for instance. Although, sadly, I doubt you are going to get much joy out of them, I think it's worth a try.

Also, I've just had a thought..... If you get paid straight in to your account and you have DDs etc that normally go out the same day, you will need to ask Barclays to change Standing Orders etc to the next working day and ask the Originators of the Direct Debits to change their request dates. It might also be worth getting Online Banking. That way you can check your account daily in the comfort of your own home or office and can ensure that everything is running smoothly. I've just set up a Standing Order on my online banking and it states: You must have enough cleared funds in your account on the working day before the payment is due or your standing order will not be paid. Before I press "confirm", so it's not something they are trying to "hide". I hope you can get this sorted.

Firstly, when your account was changed from Woolwich Terms and Conditions to Barclays Terms and Conditions, did you receive them in writing? Having worked for Barclays I can tell you: Barclays Terms and Conditions state that the money for Direct Debits etc must be in the account the day BEFORE the debit comes out. These debits are processed automatically at some time between midnight and 1.30am of the day they are due. If the payment is due on the Monday, the money to cover it must be in on the Friday. It's got nothing to do with Barclays being part of the supposed "Big 4" it's simply their Terms and Conditions. Is there anything you can do? Well, you could try telephoning Barclays and asking for the charge back, telling them that this happened because you weren't aware of the change in Ts and Cs now that your account has been moved to them from Woolwich. If you haven't been charged much in the past few months and have kept the account in good standing there's a fair to middling chance you will get it back on this occasion. However, they MAY say that as you were sent the Terms and Conditions in writing on x date (if indeed you were) then they are at liberty to charge as the account didn't have sufficient funds to cover the DD. I'm not saying I agree with them, or that they are right to charge you, I'm just second guessing from a few years experience what it's likely they will say, but it's certainly worth trying. Good Luck

I should have also told you.. When Paypal receive a "chargeback" request from a Credit Card Company they are bound by law to return the money to the CC Company. Whether they are then obliged to take the money from you is the subject of many "discussions" on the Payment and Postage Community Board forum, somewhere it might be wise for you to visit. Have you tried contacting the buyer and asking what is going on? It MAY be that they know nothing about it, or that they reversed the payment in error. Either way I don't think there is any harm in trying to establish from them what has happened. This way you could find out if the account was hijacked.

Firstly it's important to establish why the payment was reversed. If it was the recipient doing a claim for non-receipt you would have had a "Item not received" claim active on your paypal account and would have had the opportunity to respond with the Tracking Details of the delivery in order to establish you sent the item and it was received. If this is not the case then the recipient may have asked their Credit Card issuers to do a "chargeback" for some reason and therefore it's worth trying to contact the buyer. What seems more likely is that you have fallen victim to a [problem], whereby someone has got the log-in details of an ebay account and the attached paypal account (ie a "hijacked" account) and therefore the REAL owner of the paypal account has noticed a rogue transaction on their card and quite legitimately reversed the transaction on the basis that they did not authorise it. This is why it's important when accepting payment by Paypal to protect yourself and ensure that you are sending to a confirmed address (ask yourself why anyone would NOT want to confirm a legitimate address after so many ebay transactions, supposedly with no problems) and also ensure that the item is sent by a means that is trackable online and that complies with the Seller Protection Policy. If you sell something and receive a paypal payment that is marked as "not eligible" for Seller Protection it's not wise to continue with it for such a large sum, and an alternative payment method should be asked for, such as Bank Transfer, Cheque or Postal Order. I think it's time to ask paypal under what circumstances this money was reversed. Unfortunately they WILL send the debt collectors after you for the money and when they do it would be wise to consult those members who give excellent advice in the Debt forum. Good Luck.

You are of course absolutely right KTC ! (I just thought that might confuse the answer I was giving even more!!) Another example. True Story. It was a case of fraud, but demonstrates the "unknown limit" perfectly. My parents HAD an account with a high street bank for 40 years. They now live abroad, but their pension is paid into their UK account and transferred. They were in the UK in order to visit family and travel for several weeks to the other side of the world and nipped to the ATM "last minute" to grab some UK cash for the airport. Their ATM card was declined. They went in to the bank to find they were just short of £10,000 overdrawn. Yes, I said £10,000. As far as they were aware they didn't have an overdraft facility at all. Their limit was £0 as far as they were concerned. It was a case of fraud by someone who knew the system. They had ordered another ATM card and PIN for my Dad, who never uses his, got it sent to the branch as my parents are abroad (this is a SECURITY arrangement my parents had in place as a member of the family could collect the cards if they showed id) , and started to withdraw their daily limit out of the ATM every day for WEEKS. Had they not visited the ATM just before driving to the airport they would not have known and would have been stuffed on holiday. However the point here is that the "anticipatory" limit had been added WITHOUT their knowledge, NO CONTACT had been made to tell them that they were so far overdrawn, they would not have known until they got their next statement had they not been going away. The banks answer when my parents asked how so much could be taken from what was in effect an empty account, once the fraudster had removed the ACTUAL balance, was: "Well, you're such good customers, you've never been charged, you pay in regularly, so we know you are good for it." NOT ONE charge had been applied to the account. BUT the bank also said: "We can sort you a loan out right now to pay it off until you get back and then we can sort out what's happened. Are you sure one of your grand-children hasn't been playing with your wallet Sir?" Two word answer from my Father (before he called the Police) ... the second one was "off"

Glad you got it sorted!

When a customer applys for an overdraft they are given a limit, why is it you can go over this limit ? surely when you reach your LIMIT then your account should decline payment not alow you to go over which then allows the bank to charge £25 in my case ? Whilst I personally agree with you the banks will put up several arguments and reasoning on this particular question. Firstly it differs from bank to bank, customer to customer and account to account. However, the rule of thumb is that the "limit" is given to you and you know about it therefore it's your responsibility to stop spending when you get there. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that cheques you have forgotten about (and that were guaranteed), DDs etc can't come out after you have reached the limit. Some customers will find that everything bounces after they reach their limit, others will find the items paid, others will find they've been charged for the priviledge of either of these eventualities. If you are say with a couple of pounds of your limit and a DD comes out taking you overdrawn then they can do two things. 1. Bounce it and charge you or 2. Pay it and charge you, or, if you are a "good" customer, pay it and not charge you! That's the way they see it and it comes down to it being the Account Holder's responsibility to run the account within it's limits. That said often "good" customers have what is known as an "anticipatory limit", ie an "allowable" limit over and above the agreed limit that they know about. This is normally calculated given the account holder's good standing with the bank, their income, their normal expenses, how often they have been over limit etc. Therefore what the customer THINKS is their limit is NOT necessarily the case and the bank may continue to allow payments of debits even though the account holder is over their limit. Again it's up to the account holder to check and to ensure that they stay within their limit. As indebstudent points out, an ATM may pay out when you are over your limit, it may not. To further complicate matters there is also the subject of uncleared funds to consider. SOME banks/accounts allow the customer to drawn against cheques that have not cleared. But if they bounce, the customer is overdrawn. Also SOME banks allow you access on a Saturday to funds not actually physically in the account until the Monday. Again, if anything happens in the meantime the account will go overdrawn. As you will see from all of the above, there is no hard and fast answer. Other than writing down everything you pay in and out of the account and working within the balance you know you have "available" (ie after cheques you've written out etc) as opposed to what the ATM or online banking shows to be your balance. Re-reading this I only hope I've explained this properly!

I agree. The fault IS with setanta, as the bank had what it thought to be a valid mandate for payment (The charge and whether that is ok is a different matter - one for the bank charges forum) Setanta should NOT have requested payment on a DD mandate for which the pre-requisite 14 days written notice had NOT been sent, or received, therefore THEY are liable for your expense and I would persue them. None the less I would be writing a very strong letter of complaint to the bank 1. about their branch staff being ignorant of the DD Guarantee 2. about their "don't care" attitude to you when you complained 3. For seemingly not giving you the details of their complaints process when you had cause to complain and 4. for charging you and causing hardship for something that turned out not to be your fault and 5. for paying out on a mandate that was obviously NOT signed and had not been set up after the pre-requisite notice period. Good Luck. Let us know how you get on.

I guess this comes down to what they CAN (ie are able to) take and what they SHOULD (given the circumstances) take. Obviously the first thing to do is establish the amount owed. For this it may be pertinent to send them a Subject Access Request in order to establish what was paid to you and when and therefore giving you the amount that they are claiming. Once the amount is established then Welfare Rights can help you to get the amount being taken down to an affordable limit. I would recommend having a scout through the library letters and sending an SAR, meanwhile make an appointment with Welfare Rights as soon as possible. Keep us posted.

Ok, so this is when clarity helps! It was not clear at all from your posts that the DD had NOT been paid, quite the opposite it fact. So, presumably (but please correct me if I'm wrong, because it's important!) the DD "bounced" and the charge you have received is for this? If this is so you will need to take this up with the bank, but I wouuldn't bother with the branch staff in this instance. I would telephone your bank, insist on speaking with someone senior and explaining that the DD bounced because it was present BEFORE you had received ANY written communication from the Originator and therefore certainly NOT after the pre-requisite 14 days notice required. Don't take any rubbish from them, they SHOULD refund. No guarantees though..... So, if no luck I suggest a letter, email or call to the Originator. Again explain that you have been charged (which you can prove) because of them requesting funds against a DD mandate incorrectly (ie before they had sent the 14 days written notice) and therefore you want the charge back from them. Sorry if this has caused confusion, I and apparently others were under the impression you had been charged because you had gone overdrawn, in fact i asked the question in post 3 but you didn't answer it.

Yes, telephone the bank and state you want the payment returned under the DD Guarantee. Then write or telephone the Company and tell them that as you have not received the required 14 day written notice you have requested the payment back. Then ensure, that should you still require the service, they give you the required notice before the next payment comes out. Good Luck

The CAB is a good idea, but, to be honest, I doubt they'll recommend anything more than we will recommend on this site. I would get the CCA letter off to them. You can find it in the library on this site. You are requesting the signed Credit Agreement, basically. Until they provide it the debt is unenforceable in law. They have 12 days to comply before defaulting and not being able to take further action. 30 days after that they go into criminal default. If you get that letter (and a £1 postal order) off to them as soon as possible it will buy you some time (if only to get into the CAB!) and should you receive a response, come back and we can help further.

I've no doubt that you would win and that you are determined. However, the information from the CCA and the SAR would be vital to any defence you had against action taken against you by them and also vital evidence if you take them to Court, so, as well as halting all proceedings, that's where I would start as you are going to need this information eventually.

*crosses fingers* *and everything else*

The standard notice period for DDs is 14 days. If you have not been informed then, despite the mandate being set up and effectively "live" no monies should have been removed until you were informed. How did you set up your subscription? Online? On the phone? Did you actually physically sign a mandate? In the meantime you need to speak to your bank as this payment was unauthorised and you need to claim under the Direct Debit Guarantee. Whilst normally this would mean the payment taken being refunded, as you didn't have enough to cover it were you charged for the "bounce" or the debit causing you to go overdrawn?