Venetian Fire, if you are adamant on pursuing this then contact agencies advised by saintly. What I feel you want is, and I may stand corrected....... more money in terms of an apology!! Why don't you highlight all your 'issues', highlight all your 'losses', send them in a letter to the bank and tell them what you feel is an acceptable amount and see what they reply (send them an email, much quicker this time of year!) I would think if they're offering £200, the 'MISTAKE' is quite a serious breach and maybe worth a try to get a bit more, Merry Crimbo, DWD.

OK, with a little more digging and a few contacts here is the references needed with regard your situation!! Depends on the state in which that person relocated. Each state has their own collection laws and they all have to deal with the Federal laws that also deal with that topic. If there is a judgment or just a debt? If it just a debt, you can find the US federal law on debt collection practices in Title 15 of the United States Code. Donate to the Legal Information Institute Debt collection in the USA is big business and is governed by the American Collectors Association with the commission rate charged anything up to 50% of moneys collected or paid to the creditor and like this country there are agencies who undertake NO COLLECTION NO FEE. What I am saying is that the fees in the USA are higher than in the UK. Do some of your own groundwork to put your mind at rest/unrest, you decide. Call or send an email to a debt collector in the US and ask them if they can recover monies for you, from a British citizen, residing in the US - I know what the answer will be The Knowledge Base of the Credit and Collection Industry The question of collection through a US court would be undertaken by a Lawyer in the relevant state and as with this country these legal fees are recoverable and added to the debt. The relevancy I believe, is the amount of the debt, allied with the ease by which a contact is sought, if for example the debt was with a large worldwide bank then they would have people in place already to deal with debtors moving abroad. DWD

The internet has allowed the process of contacting and finding debtors in other countries economically viable. An email to a contact in a debt collection / private investigation company in ANY country that would undertake the service within the laws of that country/state is all that is required. I wouldn't like to put a ceiling figure upon which a debt would be chased abroad but service of papers can be as little as £50.00 and (again an email costs nothing) this is widely used with the rise in Brits moving abroad. Bigger companies will also have offices in other countries and/or very strong ties within the industry. The short answer is yes, its whether the amount is considered worth chasing! DWD

Sounds about right, were costs mentioned at all? dwd

at stay hearing today, apparently the fact they offered the lower sum, was 'good business' . I took the plunge and told the judge of the 'without prejudice' offer letters, not interested, and this did not negate the hearing. relying on hardship and defendant conduct to remove stay, not interested either, see A & L thread, cheers

Load of tosh! Hearing duration 35 minutes - a pound a minute!! Stay remains, I'm not an hardship case (apparently) 'I could seek alternative employment' and Alliance & Leicester have acted wholly respectably and did I seek the advice of a solicitor. I thought these hearings were fast track and thus NO costs!! Do you know what, I have a DMP and have failed to keep up payments along with other debts. Look up 'Hardship', I do endure monthly pressures to meet outgoings. Get a better paid job, they reduce your Tax Credits. I wouldn't be better off AND have the flexibility I currently have with my job and looking after the children when they are on school holidays (wife cannot change her hours ). And the payment wouldn't significantly ease my burden, £$%&*^_+£. Different Planet Oh yeh, then he asks the Barrister (very nice chap) if the bank would like to apply costs (apparently not, very considerate) and started talking about 'multi track' and the fact that costs would have been around £6-800 POUNDS :shock: just pass my cheque to the nice Barrister The Laws an Ass As you can tell I'm NOT bitter at all

interested to know if you had an offer from A&L and then lower offer from Wragges prior to Test Case announcement at the end of July

Sent letters to A&L and solicitors with regard lifting my stay due to hardship and avoid the necessity to go to court.......solicitors reply........we have been instructed to proceed with the hearing. We await the outcome of the hearing. Abuse of the FSA Waiver guidelines??

Sorry, not what was meant. I received an offer of say £750. from A&L themselves in June (refused). I receive an offer from Wragges of £600.00, 1(ONE) week before the test case announcement. Have Wragges abused the process knowing full well the last offer is the one the banks have to commit to for the '2 month' FSA guideline to settle and thus, send out lower offers to all claimants?.

are there any other claimants that have received lower offers prior to the test case announcement or was this the done thing prior to full hearings before the announcement?

I am due to attend a Stay Hearing and would like advice - Am I right in assuming that the banks would have had prior knowledge of the FSA waiver guidelines 'with special regard to being committed to paying out on the last offer for a two month period' If this was the case then surely this could prejudice a case and a factor in Wragges sending me a revised lower offer just seven days prior to the oft test case announcement.........was this practice rife among claimants?? Thanks DWD

ANOTHER QUESTION - Am I right in assuming that the banks would have had prior knowledge of the waiver 'with special regard to being committed to paying out on the last offer for a two month period' If this was the case then surely this could be a factor in Wragges sending me a revised lower offer just seven days prior to the oft test case announcement.........was this practise rife among claimants??

Hi all, Have stay hearing shortly and am looking for advice on a few points. 1) is a 'without prejudice' letter wholly void from being involved with a claim. (wragges stay defence states that it was only speculation that my account would be closed.) - the 'without prejudice' offer letter contains the paragraph........'you may have seen media reports that some banks have considered closing certain customers' accounts where the customer has comlained about bank charges. We would like to reassure you that if you do accept our offer of settlement we will continue to operate your account.We would only do so on the basis that you accept the Terms and Conditions of your accountpreviously notified to you and that charges will be applied in accordance with our current charging policy'.......is this a threat of account closure? 2) Has anyone been to a stay hearing to answer wragges defence (Mark Heynes -V- HSBC and Mark Heynes -V- A & L) ? I'll post others as they come to me!! thanks, DWD

Hi all, got the hearing for 20th and received Wragges document for stay hearing. Have sent further docs which have crossed. The offer made which is acceptable for two months, can someone advise that if say Test Case 'eventually' finds that £10 is acceptable for charges will we only be able to claim for excess after the £10 on each charge or is the full amount reclaimable as per previous claims. WOULD THIS THEN MEAN I MAY AS WELL ACCEPT THE OFFER IN FULL AND FINAL AS THIS WOULD AMOUNT TO AROUND THE SAME REFUND, Thanks DWD

Hi all, I am looking for the terms and conditions for the 'cashplus' account (as at start of claim, 2001) and T&C's for the changeover to the 'basic cash' (as at finish of claim 2006). I cannot find them anywhere and I remember that at the time of change that the terms were changed whereby you couldn't use the counter to deposit money and the online bank doesn't let you cancel/see direct debits - I ended up cancelling DD's with a letter placed in the letterbox of the local branch. I was hoping to use these terms as unacceptable in keeping my account in order at my stay hearing. TY, DWD

Hi all, when I rang the courts yesterday I was advised that Wragge did not file a defence on the 17th as ordered, this was the same day the stay was ordered by the court! You'd have thought maybe they would look in the file and see Wragges are behaving like A-Holes and tell them to bugger off. DWD

Righty then, Received notice that a hearing for lifting of the stay is on 20th November. I have sent the STAY template together with supporting evidence as per post #50 and would like now to find additional info to take with me to the hearing. any suggeStions, DWD ps.....I have since found this and am working on it, thanks ZOOT http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/114505-bundle-stay-hearing.html

Hi all, anyone else received offer letter from Wragges.............stated that my last offer (which I rejected and returned) still stands as a goodwill gesture in a full and final settlement!!! I rang the court and the stay application will take upto 3 weeks to be looked at. Can I make them an offer? Am I still in a bargaining position? I am now at the position where the more work the solicitors have to undertake the costlier it is getting for the banks. It is a small sum for the banks and the costs would soon be outweighing the claim!! Keep the wheels turning, eh.

after much deliberation I did it, N244 Application for removal of the stay, still £35.00 even with courts making order!! Not many have applied apparently, and those that have it is where charges are for credit card fees. alongside template, supporting evidence for removal: vexatious defendant obtaining direct debit fees from child benefit/tax credits other courts/judges proceeding and settling claims post OFT announcement articles covering professors and finance experts stating charges of differing degrees from £2 to £4.50. Claimant or Defendant not party to OFT test case. Was never afforded authorised/unauthorised overdraft, thus I never undertook any borrowings authorised or not. terms of the account were changed significantly over a given period, making the day to day running of the account problematic. QUE SERA SERA, DWD

Hi jansus, did you apply for the lifting of the stay where you wanted to attend the hearing (£65 as opposed to £35)? did this mean A&L also have to attend?

I am now thinking against applying for the removal . It appears that odds are now stacked against me, even more so with the courts putting the stay in place themselves. the order states: upon it appearing to the court that: a) a test case has been issued in the high court between the OFT and certain banks with a view to determining issues of legal principle in relation to the recovery of charges made on bank current accounts and the applicability of the UTCCR and other legislation to such charges b) further info is likely to be available at The Office of Fair Trading: making markets work well for consumers c) the issues raised in the test case will affect this claim. It is ordered that: 1. the claim is stayed until further order with a view to awaiting the final decision in the test case. 2. the defendant shall within 28 days of the final decision file in court and serve on the claimant a) a case summary of not more than 500 words setting out the effect of the decision b) their proposed directions in this claim 3. documents at para. 2 to be referred to a district judge to consider further directions 4. either party may apply at any time, by application on notice in accordance with CPR 1998 Part 23 to lift the stay. 5. because this order has been made by the court without considering representations from the parties, the parties have the right to apply to have the order set aside, varied or stayed. thanks for any advice.

thanks MJ, JUST BEEN READING THROUGH YOUR THREAD. DID YOU NEED TO REMOVE A STAY, HAVEN'T GOT TO THE END OF YOUR THREAD

Hi all, spoke with FSA and OFT AND COURTS.........BUSY, BUSY. The FSA say that returned direct debit fees are within the realms of the OFT test case. The OFT state that the test case is to establish if the terms and conditions in account contracts are clear and fair but also I was told that the removal of a stay would most likely be refused. The Court says I can proceed with my N244 APPLICATION for removal of the stay but was given no advice either way with regard the outcome!! I really don't know what to do, trying to locate details of claims (specifically A&L and the claim numbers) paid out very recently to include with any application.

Back from hols and it is not good news.......... The courts have issued a stay of their own initiative and give me 7 days to reply - dated 17th August, i.e. 24th august for applying for set aside etc....bloody infuriating seeing as all parties notified I was on my hols til today :mad: I am going to apply for set aside, if that is the right course. Have read through the OFT Case and A&L site and it states that the test case is for overdraft charges on current accounts. In addition to the template I was hoping for additional help in adding a couple more paragraphs if appropriate. my whole claim is for unpaid direct debits and it is a basic cash account with an ATM card. I was never allowed an overdraft or cheques and I was wondering what actually constitutes a current account. I was hoping to state that this 'basic' account was not afforded the priveleges of a current account and could not be classed as such and the fact that all charges were not related to an overdraft. Very annoyed with the court also as it took them over a month to issue a court date, when it came it was in the middle of my hols and then issued a date two weeks later, I am sure this claim would have been settled now. Clearly they haven't reviewed the claim bcoz there is no way they would have sent the STAY and required my reply knowing I wasn't available!! Any advice - should I keep my money or go for the set aside, regards

Hi Jess, I'm wondering if they hadn't time to request stays that were due shortly after the test case announcement but wragge are hastily sorting this!! I'm not one to worry, just trying to be prepared, I can see them trying to wriggle their squeaky bottoms out of the predicament their in. Hols in 5 days , will have to see what postie brings?