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Hi all,

 

Simple question. As per the title, is it illegal for the council to refuse to accept payment for council tax?

 

The story is quite simple, our council tax account has been passed to the bailiffs and as such the council are refusing to accept payments (to the point where they even appear to have blocked me from using their online payment portal), and insist that payments can only be made to the bailiffs.

 

I've no intention of paying the bailiffs anything as a number of years ago (10-12 years) they stole money from us intended for payment of council tax, later telling me it was used to pay their own fees. Long story short, we lost our home as the council eventually made me bankrupt. Our solicitor advised an FVA and the equity in the house was used to pay all their legal fees, effectively leaving us with nothing.

 

We're now struggling again hence the question. The reason I ask is I remember reading somewhere, some time ago that there is an old law somewhere that states that it is illegal to refuse payment for a bill or debt. That's what i'm trying to find out.

 

 

*** PLEASE DON'T GIVE ME ADVICE ON HOW TO DEAL WITH BAILIFFS, THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M ASKING***

 

 

 

Thanks

You are correct, there is such a law. I remember being told about it several years ago by a top London lawyer after we had what seems to be on the face of it very similar issues to yourself with bankruptcy and council tax.

Unfortunately I couldn't afford his £1250 an hour rate, but I do know he said we had a stonewall case against the council after they refused to stop the bankruptcy proceedings after I offered them payment IN FULL.

Like yourself I got tons of basic advice, everybody repeating the same thing time after time but no real help. That lawyer was the only one I ever spoke to who really seemed to know the real ins and outs of the law, not just the type of thing you read on Stepchange, CAB or the bailiff advice sites.

Unfortunately I can't remember the actual law or the details either, but you're right about the "not being able to hold goods in lein of payment" bit, I distinctly remember that too because I had never heard of the word lein before and had to look it up.

I'm pretty busy at the moment but I still have all my old files on my case, hundreds of pages of info I accumulated so I'll have a look through them and see if I noted it down anywhere, but I do believe you're 100% correct about this.

Was this ever appealed?

This is a long time ago now! After complaining on the phone at the time I got the ticket, pointing out the large gap in the lines, I never heard another word about it so I assume they must have dropped the matter and cancelled the ticket.

Re. paperman2, the reason most people refuse to give a name and address is because they believe it will be used, or sold on to other companies, for marketing purposes. It would also help if staff were honest - you are usually told "It is needed to validate your guarantee". This has happened several times. No it isn't, and I even spent ten minutes arguing the toss with a member of staff before walking out.

If staff simply offered the explanation that it would make the transaction easier to find in the event of a claim it might help both themselves and the customers. It might also help if information was offered n the receipt stating that it will fade or become unreadable if left near heat or light, but I file my receipts away in a folder kept in a dark, generally cool cupboard and they still fade.

However, I would still defend the retailer in most cases. Speaking as a trader myself, customers know they have a basic responsibility to make sure their receipts are safe but rarely take enough care over such things. Many customers are ignorant and lazy these days, won't take responsibility for anything and expect too much from the products they don't look after properly and the retailers who sell them.

Regarding thermal printers, they have been around for decades now and are not used to try to con the customer, it's simply an efficient method of printing receipts. You don't want a cashier having to mess around with ink cartridges every time one runs out when it's far more efficient and sensible for them to be able to simply drop in a new roll of paper.

Only if VAT registered I understand.

 

https://www.gov.uk/invoicing-and-taking-payment-from-customers/overview

 

And of course what type of purchase is involved...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-22696,00.html

That refers to an invoice, not a receipt. Just to clarify, it means if both parties are VAT registered, not just the seller.

I actually think the British Retail Consortium is correct, I remember reading a legal document or article a few years ago that very definitely clarified that there was no legal requirement to provide a receipt. I concede that I can't remember what the document was.

Worth bearing in mind that if you pay by card the entry on your bank or card statement is usually acceptable as proof of purchase. I don't know what the legal position on that is but doubt Currys would challenge it in court.

And finally, it depends on the item but I find plenty of goods in the shops cheaper than online, particularly on Amazon. I've bought plenty from Currys and resold on Amazon. Ebay is also often cheaper and buyer protection, as any ebay (and Amazon) seller will tell you, is now very comprehensive and leans heavily in favour of the buyer in the event of a dispute.

No, they have no internet or computer access unfortunately, which is part of the reason I'm helping out. I'm just waiting to find out if they have phoned the court office today as the Notice doesn't state which court issued it, so as it stands I only have the County Court address, not the High Court one. I'm assuming at this point that the application form needs to be sent to the High Court but I haven't checked.

Then its imperative that you follow the advice in post#7 (submit the N245 today).

Thanks again, Already done. I'm clear on the rest, I just needed the details on the validity of the Enforcement following the AEO. I'm already looking into the fees and possible exemption as I think they have a valid counterclaim. Unfortunately they won't give me permission to discuss the finer details on here - if it was my own case I would be happy to discuss, I couldn't care less what anybody thinks. But I'm limited with what time I have to spend on this so need it tidying up quickly ideally for everybody's benefit.

I'm well aware of bailiff's capabilities Tom but unfortunately it's not me that's going to be there. I just need to convince them not to be conned or threatened into opening the door no matter what, should it come to that.

Easier said than done. My understanding is that even finding the extra £20 a moth would have been tight. The debt, with fees, now stands at just under £5200 and at the moment there are no ways to pay the creditor other than by cash/cheque as far as I know. The court form only gives an address for payment, not a bank account to which it can be paid into (for example). I presume he can also reject a part payment if he wants to.