You can take them to the small claims court if you wanted. You’d have to list out all of the costs you incurred, what you have done to mitigate these costs (for example if you’re claiming for a taxi receipt you need to demonstrate you couldn’t take the bus) and then file a money claim. Ask yourself if this is worth the aggravation. If it is, go for it.  

Do you use the car for work? 

18 minutes ago, Andyorch said:

Possibly so.....HP agreements vary.

Well, given the fact the dealer claims his contract is with the broker and the broker have referred this (eventually) to the finance company themselves, it’s probable the OP’s contract is with the finance company. If that’s the case I think his best recourse is with Jaguar, especially if they are paying all the repairs on this issue out of goodwill, as someone mentioned above. 

30 minutes ago, Andyorch said:

The contract is between the OP and the dealer...the finance are only a third party to the deal by providing the finance to facilitate the contract.Either way there are three parties and the CRA therefore applies.

Well, when I bought a car on finance, my receipt/invoice was made out to the finance company, as it was them who were buying the car and HP’ng to me. In other words, my contract was with the finance company and not the dealer. It was the dealer who was the 3rd party as such, facilitating the finance, until settled by me, when I then owned the car. Well, that’s how I saw it. 

15 hours ago, Andyorch said:

The burden of proof would lie with yourself.

 

Im not sure about that ....the burden of proof I would assume is between the HP Company and the dealer ? The vehicle is not your property ...yet.

I think this is where the confusion is arising. Because the dealer sold the car to the finance company, that is a business to business transaction, the CRA is redundant in that transaction. I think the OP has a contract with the finance company, oodle. It’s oodles responsibility to the op to provide a car that meets the criteria under the CRA. 

The burden of responsibility rests with the op to prove to oodle the fault was inherent at the point of sale. Which will be impossible i’d say.  

Unless i’m mistaken, the contract is with oodle, not the dealer. 

“Local garage does a free check and finds lots of things to replace on a 15 year old

car”

I’d be amazed if there WASN’T anything wrong with a fifteen year old Range Rover. 

The car lost all power and leaked water and you was told the battery had gone? Who was the breakdown driver, Stevie Wonder?

Most of the items on that list are “nice to haves” stuff like cold air conditioning and working window regulators and it’s possible that items like brake pipes and pads would pass an MOT (but show up as an advisory) so how much of that deems the car unroadworthy would be subjective. 

I’d be more interested in the loss of power and water leaking than thin brake pads and pitted discs. You’d have a stronger case with the cause of needing a recovery truck rather than what a local garage would like to charge you a small fortune to replace (that might not need replacing) 

With respect, surely you knew what you was getting yourself into, buying a 15 year old car for approximately a twentieth of its original value. 

Anyway, what was the cause of the breakdown initially? Batteries don’t cause a sudden loss of power and water leaks! 

The lease company are claiming you have to get the cosmetic repairs done with them? That sounds like a load of rubbish, your contract is to return the car on a certain date in a certain condition. What happens in that period with regards to damage and repair I would have thought is your business.

If the lease expires and the car is still in for repair, and the lease company are aware of this, and the dealers are stating it cannot be taken away, common sense says you have nothing else to do here. You can't. If you insist on taking the car and it blows up the dealer will palm you off and the lease company will want you to get the repairs done.

I think you should be getting a refund for the overpayment of the mileage you have paid for. You haven't used it so why should you pay for it?

As I say, the symptoms of power loss/juddering could be many things, it may not be the same fault and may be something simple to fix, which would be nice! What did the garage fix, or claim to?

"The advisories were gone but the problems were still there"

This suggests that the source of the problems were not related to the advisories perhaps. In any case, we could talk for days about mechanical issues and whatever, it's probably irrelevant. I'd say if you have a genuine issue with the gearbox, that would be enough to cement a claim that the vehicle is not of satisfactory quality. It wouldn't harm to list other issues I suppose but a few of them are not really issues and just signs of use on a used car.

Interesting thread.

Am I reading this correctly, it was around a month from when the car was fixed, to when you sent the request for a refund? How many miles were driven in that period? Just wondering if this is actually the same fault, juddering and loss of power could be all sorts of things, speaking from a mechanical point of view.

Crappy situation for you, sorry to hear about it.

A lot of items on that list are not really faults, they are signs of wear on a 12 year old car. Brake disc pitting, cracked rim, exhaust brackets broken etc. You've bought a used car so you can't expect it all to be mint.

You should focus on the things that made the car dangerous, or unroadworthy in my opinion. The gearbox issue for example, it's not had it's oil changed and it's slipping, you say? Well that shouldn't be happening on a car with that mileage.

One thing I would say is that an MOT is done and a car passed or failed at that point in time. So it's all well and good an indy garage looking at a car and saying "yeah this shouldn't have passed an MOT" but he's looking the car three months later, it's not the MOT testers job to predict the future but to report on what he sees at the time and by what you say, he pulled up a load of advisories so I'd say he's done his job properly. 

On balance, the car isn't really of satisfactory quality, given the miles, price paid so I'd stick to the items that make it so (don't mention part worn brake discs etc, it just makes you look unreasonable, it's a used car) and issue an LBA. That may light a spark under the dealers a*se and get you some action.

In future, it's worth remembering (and noting for anyone else reading the thread) that if a car dealer pushes you for a deposit, they see it as a sign of commitment. To avoid situations like this, either leave a deposit as a sign of commitment you are entering a contract (whether you are or not) or, don't leave a deposit. Certainly don't leave one believing you are reserving something to stop other people buying it and that you can easily change your mind and get your money back easily from car dealers. They will push back hard on you. Rightly or wrongly, it's an avoidable situation.

I know this is difficult as you're probably worried but isn't it best to wait and see the outcome of the dealers actions first, rather than invent every scenario in your head and try and get a course of action for every single one?

If you liked, you could reject the car for a refund as you have given the dealer one shot (well two actually) to repair the issue and they haven't. So perhaps you might consider doing that. Be prepared for the dealer to make a deduction from a refund as is their right to do.

I'm sure others will be along to advise again soon but what are you waiting for? Have you followed BF's advice and send a LBA? Are you prepared to take this mob to court? You're being fobbed off and f*cked around in my eyes. 

The financial ombusdman is worthless in this situation in my opinion. You have been sold something that is mis-described. Take them to court and get your money back. 

You still here, gandalph?

Just to clarify, I wasn't ever talking about VT, neither was the OP, you initiated the VT discussion but thanks for the useless info to the thread. You have shown you clearly know about VT's, it must come in useful, somewhere.

Should anyone stumble across this thread, looking for information on selling cars with HP on, just ring your finance company, explain the situation, they will give you permission to either pay off the car yourself with the proceeds of the sale or, more likely, someone else buying the car from you, will pay it off. You don't have to wait until you own the car, or take a short term loan out. Put it up for sale, get the finance paid off, done. As long as the finance is paid off, the finance company will be satiated as will the buyer of your vehicle. 

Obviously you can't sell the car, say nothing to the finance house, don't pay the finance off and expect nothing bad will happen. I never said that, common sense applies.

Haha, "I don't want to talk to you anymore, you seem to be making too much sense and I can't impose my vast knowledge of useless things on to you"

Another sleepless night...

13 minutes ago, Dodgeball said:

WEll you can, if you want to commit a criminal offence. With the creditor's agreement perhaps, but then all you proceeds would go to paying off the contract, and any shortfall of the FULL agreement price would also need settling, not a wise move. You would not be selling your car.

 

Just google can i sell my HP car.

Right.

So your original point is neither here nor there then, as I pointed out, with the permission of the finance company, you can get a settlement quote,  sell the car, pay off the balance with the proceeds, plus any shortfall and that's the end of it. I'm not sure why you wanted to go to lengths to point out the OP can't sell his car because of the HP, he has enough aggro it seems as it is. If he can find a buyer, they settle the finance direct, so they know its paid off (shortfall paid by the OP) it's a simple thing to do.

Perhaps you misunderstood my initial post, I am not advocating selling a car without the finance house's permission but I speak from personal and professional experience, I have paid off many a HP agreement and it hasn't ever been an issue.

16 hours ago, Manxman in exile said:

I am reluctant to get involved further with this, but here goes:

 

Q: What does the OP want?

A:  To sell his car losing only whatever value he's had out of it since "buying" it.

Problem:  There appears to be a HPI mileage discrepancy marker against it, which greatly reduces its value and saleability.

 

In the OP's shoes, the first thing I would do after being made aware of the recorded MOT mileages is to compare them against the car's service history mileages.  This will confirm either that there is a real discrepancy or that there was an input error when recording the mileage for the 2015 MOT.  (Or get Jag to check their central service records or get mileage on the ECU checked).

 

If the service history indicates that the mileage recorded for the 2015 MOT was a typo, I would use this evidence to get the HPI flag cleared myself.  It may be the dealer's or finance company's responsibility to do so, but I wouldn't trust them if I thought I could do it myself.  I would at least be asking what I can do to clear the marker.

 

Whether the OP can reject the car, or whether they've bought it or hired it, or whether they can VT it, is a moot point until it's established that there really is a mileage discrepancy and the car was not as described.

 

I'm not convinced that an honest typo (if that's what it was) on a 2015 MOT amounts to a defect entitling the OP to reject the car.

 

BF might be of the opinion that I'm trolling here, but he or she could not be further from the truth.  I'm trying to put forward an impartial point of view which I think could be of benefit to the OP while considering their position.  The only "evidence" of trolling that I've seen here was BF's own comment about taking a "trade-facing" point of view which I took, perhaps mistakenly, to be aimed at me.  I have no connections with the motor trade - I am simply trying to present an impartial POV.

 

I'll leave others to discuss the "finer" points of this problem now.

 

EDIT:  On a final note, nor am I convinced that the HPI report means that the car was not as described when "bought", "hired" or whatever, IF that HPI report is itself wrong because of a typo dating back to 2015.

 

 

 

 

As bolded above, it really isn't a moot point. It's THE point. The car was described as HPI clear. I'm assuming in the advert somewhere, on the website, wherever. The description was "HPI clear"

The car isn't HPI clear. It is not as described. I don't know how you could argue or to argue otherwise.

What you're trying to say, I believe, is that there may actually not be a problem with the car's mileage, it's a clerical error, not a clocked car. OK, that may well be true. But until the discrepancy is removed off the HPI report, it is, and will remain so, not HPI clear. The simplest thing is just for the dealer to do the legwork, get the record straight and that's it, job done. 

15 hours ago, yogibear1 said:

Explain to a prospective buyer, the car has outstanding finance and it's showing a mileage discrepancy

Yes I understand that mate, I wasn't saying you have it easy, I was just pointing out to the other chap that he was making out that you would have difficulty selling the car on HP, which you won't. I understand the mileage discrepancy is your issue.

2 hours ago, yogibear1 said:

I appreciate your patience, I'm trying to understand how this works...

I assume I would have to pay the full term interest? £4k

I paid a £4k deposit where would this come into the equation.

Car cost £18000 4k deposit paid, interest over the term is £4k trade value is £16000 for the car

You call the finance company, ask for a settlement quote. They will give you a figure you need to pay to settle the outstanding finance, which will expire on a certain date, usually just before your next payment is due.The settlement figure will be the full and final amount to pay, inclusive of interest at that point in time. If you make another payment, you have to ring again, ask for a settlement figure and they will re-calculate.

It's very straightforward, I have done it a number of times, both personally and in my line of work.

3 hours ago, Dodgeball said:

I disagree, it is one of the few posts on here which is on topic. I know people dont like being told they are barking up the wrong tree, but there you are.

 

Your remedy is to return the car to the HP company and settle under section 99 of the consumer credit act. This limits your liability to 50% of the contract price. This feature was introduced into the act for people exactly in your position.

 

If you look at the definitions of consumer, the trader in 2015 you will see it does not apply.

 

If you need help with this let me know, otherwise, I will leave you to it.

Are you going to answer my very simple question or not? Can you sell a car that has outstanding HP finance on it, yes or no? If you think no, you're wrong. If you think yes, why are you bleating on about the OP not "buying it" or whatever, it's irrelevant.

The fact is, you CAN sell a car that has outstanding HP on it. 

2 hours ago, Dodgeball said:

 

 

The problem here is that people keep saying the OP bought the vehicle. He did not he acquired it on HP, to have bought it there would have had to be a transfer of title, such a thing does not happen under an HP agreement until the very last payment. If its not made then not at all.

Are you saying that you cannot sell a car that has outstanding HP on it?

I can assure you I wasn't intending to be shirty.

It's just my opinion of course, however I'd say any reasonable person would expect a gearbox to last longer than 6 months, never mind 6 hours, on a car with low mileage and a price of £4k.

You haven't bought new but you haven't exactly bought an old banger either.

I'd agree with Bankfodder's assessment way back at the start of the thread that you have a better than 95% chance of being successful. It wouldn't take a lot to convince a judge that the fault was present when you bought the car. Good luck.

3 minutes ago, Dodgeball said:

Is this still under an HP contract? In post one, the OP said that he "bought it a couple of months ago". if he means under HP, he is in no position to sell, because it does not belong to him.

 

If it is under an HP agreement there are remedies within the act, which are there specifically to help people in this position, or have I missed something?

 

 

I think you have missed the fact that with permission of the finance company, you can sell the car.