Sadly we do see repossessed properties sold way below the market price.

 

 

I will alert site team for you, but you might not receive a response until later in the day - do please keep an eye on your thread for responses.

The company will be required to conduct multiple valuations and cannot accept an offer without evidencing that they've attempted to obtain the best possible price. They will reject unreasonable offers below market value and cannot seek a fast sale.

Usually if it's sold below market price, or the lender has had to go to auction, it's due to issues with the property being in serious disrepair (and will have been on the market some time by this stage).

CAB's advice is shockingly wrong.

 

You have a buyer for £64k, and your outstanding mortgage is £58k (does that include the £4.5k of arrears?). If the mortgage company repossess and manage to sell the property for £64k, you are going to be left with a horrendous shortfall, as they will add all manner of fees to the mortgage for the cost of repossession, preparing the property for resale, security etc., and those costs are often in the tens of thousands. Even at the lowest end, you are looking at around an additional £15k of costs on top of what you already owe.

 

If you sell, you will have the costs of selling (an agent if one is used for example), and if no agent is used, then just the costs of the solicitor, which could be as little as £1000 if you shop around. Anything left over from the sale after you have discharged the mortgages, is yours to help you set up home again elsewhere, or help you to discharge some of your other debts.

 

Don't hang about - sell, sell, sell...yes your buyer is getting a bargain, but so are you if you are definitely not in a position to pay the mortgage. (Have you applied for statutory mortgage interest payments if you are on ESA?)

 

Renting it out isn't an option as it's a residential mortgage, so even if the mortgage company agreed your payments would go up accordingly as it would be a rent to buy.

Renting it out is an option, they can grant permission for the borrower to rent the property via concession if he has alternative accommodation.

This can be done on a temporary basis and does not require a permanent conversion to a BTL mortgage, although they probably wouldn't do this at this stage as the difficulty with payments does not appear to be a temporary issue.

£15,000.00 in costs also seems a little steep, I've seen a few cases where fees and costs have gone that high but it is certainly the extreme and not the norm. Usually the only way to accrue charges of that amount is by prolonging action over a multi-year period.

I also have someone that would rent it, but apparently, as I owe arrears, I couldn't rent it out until the arrears are paid.

Is that a legal requirement?

It's not a legal requirement, but allowing you to rent the property is a temporary solution and your current situation does not appear to be temporary. Might also be an internal policy.

In regard to your potential buyer if he is offering £10,000.00 below market price, and your mortgage provider have already obtained a possession order meaning that solicitors fees and the like have already been incurred, then there's little point in accepting it.

In order for them to cancel the eviction you'd also need to be able to evidence that the buyer is still willing and able to go ahead with the sale, which might be a short order between now and Tuesday.

CABs advice might be best in this instance, making an application for the eviction to be cancelled at this stage would likely just prolong matters and further reduce any equity in the property.

I dont rate clearscore.

I find it to be style over substance.

I find the info very low value.

 

noddle: have just checked. not a single reference to this debt.

The numbers a very similar to a Santander annual statement I get.

So I suspect its them.

Can I assume its one that the default date has gone over the 6 years?

Having a look at all my "defaulted" ones, the dates are all mid-late 2010.

So it seems to be around that ball-park.

 

I am pretty sure some previous report showed one account as "satisfied", but cant remember what company provided that.

I guess I need to just take a breath and hope I can reach 2017, by which time most will drop off the credit reports?

I dont want to rock the boat so close to the cut-off.

 

I am such a dummy.

There is a tab for "Closed Accounts".

Its there as "closed".

But it isnt.

Guessing, from Santanders perspective, they are done with it, having sold it off.

Its a question of who they sold it off to. The solicitors, who havent contacted me since, are probably not the owners, but acting on behalf of someone else.

I guess I just let things remain quiet?

They aren't obliged to report to CRAs so the new owners may have opted not to, they often won't with unsecured debt.

When you say Robinson Way are chasing the debt, what have they sent you? And what have you sent them?

If it looks like they're litigating, and they can with a reconstituted agreement, then it's probably because it is (or was) nearing the statute barred point. If you've responded acknowledging the debt this will reset the six year timer.

My experience with litigation on unsecured debts is relatively limited, but if they send you anything that advises they are going to proceed with litigation action after a set period then contact them. They are FCA regulated and they won't send a letter before action unless they actually plan on proceeding.

If it uses uncertain language like "we will review your account for litigation action", then you could probably ignore it if you really don't want to pay the debt. If this is the language they are using then they're probably just bulking their borrowers and fishing for responses.

That's nice, congrats on getting the fees waived!

I love the wording in their letter as well

"We admit no fault, but here's all of those fees back."

Sounds like they were applying them without actually doing any collections work

So this missing payment, have they definitely missed a payment or is it just that you made all the payments under the original contract terms and think the balance should be £0.00?

Because if it's just the balance not lining up with what you expect based on the credit agreement then I think they may have answered that question when they reference additional interest.

Similarly Skye alluded to this earlier when they mentioned deferred interest,

it looks like both companies worded it pretty badly and didn't really explain anything very well

but the balance took longer to clear than stated in the credit agreement due to interest incurred on your arrears.

This would have either slowed down the rate of capital reduction or been added to your default balance,

depending on how Black Horse applied the interest arrears.

If I've misunderstood and they just missed a payment and it isn't showing on your account,

do you know the date of said payment?

Should be pretty easy to evidence with bank statements/Black Horse statements.

I had a secured loan with Black Horse and when I was made redundant I agreed to make reduced payments.

 

I was not entitled to any benefits due to my partner working. I kept up those payments

when found work increased back to the correct amount they added this to the loan amount .

 

 

I then was made redundant 18 months later and missed 2 or 3 payments

I spoke to Black Horse again and agreed reduced payments until I found another job I increased again.

 

In between I noticed I was in arrears and black horse said my reduced payments

and missed payments were added together and I was being charged £30.00 per month.

 

they wouldn’t add to loan or accept my offer of an increase ,

I sent my expenditure in but my incomings and outgoings showed I couldn’t really afford anything extra.

They kept adding £30.00 per month which increased the arrears to £6,000 .

(my monthly payments are £385.00). I owe more now than what I borrowed.

 

I have not missed a payment of £385.00 since 2012.

They have sold the debt to Idem 2014 or 2015

the letter stated there would be no changes and my monthly payments will just come out as normal.

They were trying to contact me during working hours.

I have not missed any payments with them.

 

When speaking to them they wouldn’t accept any increase without an expenditure form.

I have now received a letter saying out of my £385.00 they are charging £246 interest on the loan

and £74 interest on the arrears of £6000 per month .

 

(...)

 

I do not disagree in paying but feel it unfair how much interest they are charging thanks

The £30.00 sounds like a fee, rather than payment arrears.

Your account would have gone into arrears by the difference between your payments and the regular instalments, so your arrears balance will be different to the total default balance.

As for the interest some companies charge interest on fees, some don't. If they did you may want to challenge it if you're going to contest the fees. You will be charged interest on payment arrears however so there isn't really any getting out of that.

If Black Horse allowed you to remain in arrears without actually doing anything, as in they were not attempting to get you into some kind of arrangement or trying to litigate, then they probably shouldn't have been charging you and you should make a complaint about this.

With the new company I'd advise going through the I&E with them, even while the above complaint is ongoing, and either setting an arrangement to clear the arrears and extending the term if necessary.

There are other options depending on circumstances (especially if this is secured) but these are the two most common solutions.

My questions are :

 

Can I find out how much they bought my debt for

and was it for Am I allowed to see how they purchased the debt

i.e. the total amount together or separate.

 

Can I dispute it being put separate

Can they change the interest and charges to anything they want

You probably won't be able to find out how much they paid for the debt, if it was secured it was probably between 90p and £1.10 on the pound (sometimes it costs over the outstanding balance as profit is expected to be made on the remaining term).

Loans are usually organised into tranches when they're sold and the price determined based on loan performance.

I'm not sure what you mean by it being separated, but you can't really dispute it being sold. It's a common practice and will be covered in the terms of the loan agreement.

sorry I think you are being fleeced blind here.

 

have you all the statements?

 

if not get an sar running to BH ASAP.

 

what paperwork do you have?

the agreement p'haps?

 

they shouldn't have charged any arrears fees

or indeed any other 'penalty' fees like

letter/phonecall,debt management' etc etc.

is the charge still showing on land registry

&

who's name is it under

They're entitled to charge arrears fees as they cover the cost of managing accounts in arrears, and whilst a SAR has it's uses it's not really particularly productive here.

Just ask for a copy of statements that cover the period the fees were applied, or they should have issued statements to you when they sold the loan to Idem so you could ask for those.

They'll probably send them without the admin fee needed for a SAR (and you won't get boxes of stuff you don't need).

If the loan was secured then it will still be showing on the land registry as well, they wouldn't release the charge before the account redeemed and they'll have transferred it to Idem on selling the debt (and if they didn't, they can do it at a later date anyway). Checking land registry is a waste of £3.00.

thread is 6yrs old!!

 

 

dx

Hah, my bad.

Sorry, new here, didn't think to check the posting dates

HSBC "ended their banking relationship" with me 8 months ago. I recently tried opening a new account with them in a different branch and it was automatically declined with reference to the letter ending the banking relationship last year. Does this mean I'm banned from HSBC for life? Is there anything I can do about this? I'd give anything to have my account with them back.

Might be worth giving them a call if you're unaware of the reason, you probably have a better idea than we do as to whether or not they'll change their mind given that we have no idea why they blacklisted you in the first place.

They might delete any record of your account after a sufficient time passes without activity, but that will depend on their data retention policy. They may also have an exception in place for instances like this and simply archive the data, so there's definitely no guarantee.

Sounds like you've received a complaint acknowledgement, you'll get a final response letter within eight weeks of your complaint being made.

Why would you jump to MCOL following that? They have acknowledged your complaint and refusing to wait on an outcome would probably be in breach of pre-action protocol.

The fees look excessive so Black Horse may offer to refund the fees, although if you were in arrears they probably won't refund all of them.

How much they refund will likely depend on your account conduct, if you were in arrears for an extended period (your posts indicate a multi-year period?) then there may genuinely have been quite high costs associated with the management of your account.

Also noteworthy is that Skye reference deferred interest, have you queried that or were you aware that interest had been deferred? That would probably explain why the loan balance didn't match up with the terms of the original agreement, you did also go into arrears so likely also incurred further interest on that arrears balance.

It may have been interest on the arrears that they deferred, if they capitalised it without your knowledge or consent that's probably worth looking at.

Either way just wait on the complaint outcome, trying to go via MCOL straight off the bat is not a good approach. If you do decide to go down that route I recommend reading the pre-action requirements.

Just a thought, let's say a bank writes off £3m of bad debt as a tax dodge, they then sell the debt on to a DCA for 5p in the £

 

Do they write off the full £3m or is it minus the 5p ?

 

Just wondering if the banks have a hidden cupboard monster.

It's minus the 5p.

I'll try to answer these as best I can, however without the paperwork it isn't too easy.

1..Who is responsible for advising me of the sale of the repo, ie, how much sold for ?

Usually solicitors will contact you to transfer any surplus funds following redemption of any charges on the property, you could probably also at the time have called the lender and spoken to their property sales team.

2..Who sold it on behalf of ??? shortfalls, Profit ? Agents fees ? Possession sale costs ? litigation costs ?

These are costs associated with sale of the property, was there a shortfall as I believe one of your earlier posts stated the property sold for a sufficient amount to redeem both charges?

3..There are lots of redemption figures? what are they ? do I need to act upon these.

No you don't, they are quotes for redemption of the mortgages. The first charge and second charge probably sent each other some, the solicitors probably also requested some and they only usually remain valid for 28 days (or up to a specific date under MCOB) so you'll have loads bundled in your SAR.

4..What is a Paysafe Payment Protection ? it says we paid £650.00. but why?

Sounds like PPI.

5..'Issue Proceedings Authority Request' within this paperwork the question....'is the property on the Market' to which Nram have ticked NO, yet the property was on the Market and they had the relevant paperwork, do I need to make an issue about this. ?

That is a question in pre-action protocol, so I'd assume that is the PAP sheet from before they issued proceedings.

Meaning that they ticked the box because you didn't have the property on the market (in which case they likely wouldn't have proceeded).

6..Mini Statement says...Arrears Charges £25.00. ( are they claimable?)

Maybe, you were in arrears though and that amount seems reasonable. They cover the cost of managing your account whilst it is in arrears.

7..Fact /Find Report carried out by DMS for Nram, apparently he visited twice but we were not at home and on the 3rd visit we were in, so I let him into our home were he conducted a paperwork session, I never once asked for this nor was I advised that he was going to attend, I cant see his charges either ?

Try looking on any statements you have for charges applied shortly after the date of the home visit.

If you avoid contact they can send a representative to your property, litigation is a last resort and they need to exhaust all other options before they will proceed. Sending someone to your property in that instance is reasonable.

8..On a letter between Future and Nram Sols, there is handwritten figures on bottom of page saying...If applied before date xxx, Sols £138, £250 (cant make out writing)

Probably internal communication, might have been quoting costs. Not overly relevant.

9..Balancing Down Redemption, Balancing down checklist What are these?

Probably a checklist to do with sale of property and yet another redemption statement.

10..Discharge Fee, Claimable ?

No, it's the cost of discharging the mortgage with the land registry (land reg don't charge but the solicitors handling the discharge will).

11..Mini statement shows charges of over £800.00. ? claimable ?

Maybe, depending on what they are. That fee balance seems about right for an account that's gone through repossession (it quite often ends up higher than that).

12..Calculation of final balance following sale...

Interest £1000.00.

Insurance £0

deeds release £0

EPC £0

Legal fee £138.00.

Redemption sealing fee £250.00.

Arrears fees £50.00.

Total of debits £xxxxxxxx

Sale Price £same as above debits.

Shortfall £0

Shortfall unsecured Bal £0

 

Please note that the property was sold for 35k more than the paperwork states ? ( this will probably relate to my question 1 ?)

They probably put their redemption figure in the sale price bit, this document is for internal use so it's not a major issue. It's probably just for them to calculate any potential shortfall amount.

13..Contact History/ServiceCentre Summary- they have written down a telephone conversation which includes Mr x ( Not Me) advising that I used another persons cc to pay a sum of money ( not me and i did not) then they go on to give the other persons name ( nobody I know) their full address ( unknown to me) and even some contact numbers ( non of which I recognize)

Is this breach of another's Data ? should I be asking questions about this ??

That's interesting, might have been that the agent was in the incorrect account? Or a borrower may have called in and given your mortgage reference in error.

May also have been a third party calling in to pay fees for something like a deed of postponement (were NRAM the second charge or first?), information request or something. Might be worth googling the numbers and seeing if it's a residential number or linked to a specific organisation.

You could certainly bring the potential DPA breach to their attention, but it's unlikely you'd be able to claim anything as a result of it.

Thank you citizen B and Unclebulgaria for a wealth of guidance ... I will absorb the particulars that these lead me to, and take steps accordingly. No doubt I might need to clarify a thing or two in due course!

As the above members stated the mortgage is MCOB regulated, however I'd also like to add that an SPV is an entity established for the purpose of packaging and selling mortgages and not a controlling entity to which you can direct queries (just to save you some time and googling).

If the mortgage is being serviced by Ascenden you need to direct your proposals to them, if they have a client that owns the mortgage they will refer to the client if your request is outside of Ascenden's mandate to accept or decline.

Realistically you should have a response from any such proposal within 10 days, as most lenders will have procedure timings that keep them in line with pre-action protocol.

In your instance it might take a little longer, especially since they aren't going to be litigating any time soon so probably won't be worrying about PAP.

You should certainly have a response though, so it may be worth making a complaint about your lack of prior responses. This should be made to the company initially, and they should issue an FRL which would hopefully contain an outcome for your proposal and explanation of their position.

At that stage if you are still unhappy, you can escalate the complaint to the FOS.

As far as I'm aware however MCOB rules do not require the lender to write off a shortfall amount regardless of situation.