Hi All,

Just wanted to update this thread, and also give some encouragement to others (especially females) who may find themselves bringing a case as a litigant in person in Court.

The of grounds of appeal that i drafted for my friend as it pertains to Bias was not accepted, however 3 out of 10 of the grounds were allowed by the EAT Judge.

Date of hearing was 16/08/18 by that time she had enough money to get a Barrister, and the Victimisation portion of the claim was sent back to ET. keeping in mind that i drafted the skeleton argument, found all case laws which we used to support the argument. The Barrister at that point was just a talking head-as he basically used the same argument angle that i came up with.

Oh when we got to the EAT permission to appeal hearing, the Judge stated he was very impressed with the way the grounds were drafted. And no we did not get laughed out of court.

Anyhow..We got partially what we wanted and fought so hard for and it is very gratifying . If you are doing this on your own. Keep the faith and read read read. Do not let anyone discourage you. Stand firm and confident in front of the Judge, make your points clear, concise and to the point.

No date as been set yet for ET retrial.

The legal admissibility of bias as a grounds of appeal still seems rather off the point. What bias? You haven't posted anything that suggests any bias. Your claim seems to be that the judge and the barrister had met before. and so were 'colleagues'. I'm sure they had met before! In any area of the courts the same barristers appear before the same judges every day of the week but that in itself doesn't create bias or a conflict of interest. If it did the entire court system would have ground to a halt long ago. You need to base a claim for bias on what the judge actually said or did (or failed to say or do). What is that?

The Barrister for the other side is a big shot who is also a part time ET Judge..His firm is in London, and thus he is colleagues with the ET Judge who presided over the case..The ET judge also ignore key evidence in the victimisation portion of the trial...she (the ET Judge) was literally pleading the case for the other side.

Anyway, that said, you appear to not require any advice whatsoever, so I won't need to give you any. Except to point out again that claiming a judge is biased is very likely to ensure that you don't get a hearing. You / your friend had better be prepared to back that up with solid evidence, because it will not win you any points.

His claim of bias rests on the fact that the Barrister is a part time ET Judge and thus is colleagues with the female Judge who presided over the hearing...my position is that he could very well be right, however being that he is acting as a litigant in person that ground could irritate whoever looks at his paper work at the first stage. In my opinion all the Judges at ET are bias somewhat but exposing the way things are could hurt his case...

It is always good to see someone asking a question, arguing wth the respondents, but then themselves getting it wrong ......

 

 

 

As for "Bias and apparent bias are grounds for appeal" : true, but I suspect you actually mean "direct bias" and "indirect bias"!.

What is the difference between "bias" and "apparent bias"?

 

Singh does indeed show that bias is a grounds for appeal, but be careful of the cases you cite...... Singh not only shows that bias is a grounds for appeal, but it also shows that direct bias is a basis for a successful appeal, and that the bar for indirect bias is quite high : Singh failed to show the indirect bias they claimed, and they lost!.

 

So, by citing Singh, what you are showing is that your friend will have to show direct bias (where the bias is presumed), or make a strong case for indirect bias, which they haven't from what you've said up until now!

So, Singh doesn't really help you.

 

 

 

Yes, it is always useful to get half a story, so that:

a) you can get advice that may be correct for what you've told us, but wrong for the actual situation, and

b) so that when you get advice you dislike you can pull a fact from your reserve of information to show why the advice was "wrong" ........

 

Ohh, look: you've done b) already ....

 

 

Self-help site :

i) help yourself by not providing half a story ...........

ii) Don't risk 'putting off' potential respondents by citicising them for you not giving the whole story!.

LOL...How im I getting it wrong when it was being to told me that a claim apparent BIAS was not a valid ground of appeal however it states so clearly on the EAT.gov site?.

The language used in law is apparent bias...I think you are confusing the language used in indirect discrimination and direct discrimination with BIAS...here is some more info from the law society ..https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/automatic-disqualification-and-apparent-bias-/64222.article

But wether indirect or apparent.. doesn't matter..the key work here is BIAS.

I am not putting the entire case on here, what is the point?..I just wanted to see what people opinions are on using that avenue..I had a long debate with the person involved and anyone familiar with ET knows how Discrimination and victimisation claims are complex and i don't have the time to put the entire matter here and what happened at ET for everyone to dissect..

The reason i cited the case was to show that BIAS as a ground of appeal can be used and has been used in the past at EAT..not to say it was successful..

Thanks for your input.

Hmm thanks.

.I like how you have not heard anything else about the whole matter but you somehow are jumping to the conclusions that we do not understand how ET works..

Information on EAT.gov set states the opposite of what you say.

..and there are case laws i can direct you to which shows you are actually incorrect.

see Singh v Glasgow University & Anor ...

..Bias and apparent bias are grounds for appeal.

.https://www.gov.uk/appeal-employment-appeal-tribunal/overview

I said already he is going to use other grounds,

i don't feel like putting everything on here so as not to get side tracked

..perhaps it will do you some good to update yourself on EAT grounds of appeal by reading up on some current case laws.

http://www.redmans.co.uk/blog/employment-law-posts/bias-in-the-employment-tribunal-a-quick-guide

Thanks..The ET trial was end of march and he says he just received the written reasons Mid July...So he is still within the 42 days window.

He seems to have other grounds, specifically that ET panel misdirected itself by pleading a points for the respondent that they did not even mention.

. I just felt the accusation of bias he wants to argue about the ET Judge and the Barrister being colleagues could very well irritate the EAT which can cause his appeal to be rejected at the first stage...That is what i was concerned about and looks like some of the experts on here agree.

You canan only go to the EAT on points of law not applied in the original tribunal claim.

 

They will not take kindly to accusations of collusion if that is the merits of the appeal

Bias and apparent bias are actual grounds of appeal that could be use

..In this case i was just wondering if it would be wise.

Hi All,

This is an employment tribunal question, not sure if it belongs in this section.

I am helping a friend with doing some research on how to draft and formulate grounds of appeal to EAT.

The case relates to a claim for discrimination and victimisation against his ex employer which he lost some months ago.

He was a litigant in person.

One of the grounds of appeal he wants to submit is that the Tribunal was bias against him from the onset due to the fact that (we found this out after that the trial) the Respondents lawyer, a Barrister, is also a part time ET Judge.

The ET judge who dismissed my friend's case is a consultant solicitor.

We have not yet uncovered any evidence showing their firms are linked.

In essence, my friend wants to argue that the Barrister for his ex employer and the ET Judge are colleagues and should have declared that conflict of interest before trial. The ET Judge we observed during trial was very friend with the other side's lawyer.

I told my friend this could be a weak grounds of appeal and could irritate EAT.

He claims not, and states this is a valid ground of appeal. He has other grounds to put forward.

Do you guys think his assertion that the ET Judge was bias due to the mentioned reasons above is s strong ground?..

I honestly think he very well may get laughed out of court.

thanks..

use the figures discussed to satisfy the order and i hope you manage to find a good solicitor

 

Martin

Will do!..Thanks Martin, i now have a starting point...will keep this thread updated on my progress and i will definitely donate to the site.

The order is asking for calculable losses for past and future which we have looked at.

 

if you also wish to add an amount for punitive damages to your claim for breach of human rights then i cant see how this is calculable, it would be an arbitrary figure or at best, a calculated amount based on the figures discussed until your retirement.

 

IMHO you NEED a solicitor but i think the bottom line is this, you have spent 3 years on this, the solicitor you had was useless and you cant find another one to take the case for the last year, also the Bar Pro Bono wont touch it, this should tell you an awful lot about the chances of success!

Well, i don't see how i will lose the case being that the organization that is currently helping me uncovered proof that the social worker who accessed me in my PRIVATE accommodations NEVER had in her possession- a valid mental health warrant ...However, she told the manager of the building the opposite and he let her in my flat. ...The aforementioned is outright FRAUD and the organization that is currently helping is looking for lawyers to bring CRIMINAL charges against the social worker for fraud...See section 126 of the MHA 1983...

The Solicitor i had was for the ET case which had to do with the JOB not this cvil matter...I was unable to get anyone to help me with the human rights case..Thats is fine -as i feel more in control handling things..plus i now have a person who is an expert on Mental health act laws on the case...

The case is long and drawn out and i am happy to keep going for another 3years if need be....If I had given up when Bar pro bono refused to help, then the Mental health watch dog who is now helping would never have found me- thus we would not have uncovered explosive proof of fraud being committed by the Trust and social services...

Btw..it took this long to get to trial due the Country court screwing around with my case!

Piece of all of that information together and use the figures suggested for the months affected, as long as you can show with proof that you lost earnings as a result, ie had to claim benefits then that will form your schedule and proofs.

Future losses are much harder to predict but the same principle applies to calculation, you just wont have the proof yet in advance of the loss

Ok thanks...this helps a lot....

Question: Does this schedule of loss that i am being asked to submit affect the compensation amount that i am asking for in my claim?...I submitted to the court that i am seeking general damages no more than 50,000 for the unlawful detention and violation of articles 3 and 8 of the Human rights Act....

The fact that blatant fraud was committed by the NHS trust in the regards to how there social worker was able to gain access to me- i also asked for exemplary damages..

Ok just so we are clear...i don't need help with my Mental health section case...i am taking the hospital who sectioned me under the MHA act to court for unlawful detention and violations of other articles of the human rights act...i don't want to go into details pertaining to the merits of the case as it will just be a long drawn out convo...What i need is help DRAFTING a schedule of loss for past and future loss for my current human rights lawsuit.

The ET case was for a JOB i was dismissed from ...I was SECTIONED under the MHA a week after i received the letter that i had been dismissed from the job...I was held for 7weeks in hospital and could not fully defend or find adequate legal advice to help me in the ET case....

So i am asking if it is appropriate to add in the schedule of loss for the HUMAN RIGHTS claim, that i lost my ET for that job due to being detained unlawfully by the defendant under the MHA 1983

i hope that is clear..i have already been to CAB and the high court CAB...i have been dealing with this matter for almost 3years now...i have pretty much exhausted all options...CAB do not help at all when i comes to matter such as this....

i also got a referral to the Bar pro bono and they refused to take the case....

I never submitted a schedule of loss, i filed the claim on my own in June of 2014.....since the section and losing my job i have been homeless twice i did not work at all for about 8months after the section as i suffered from severe back pain due the injuries i suffered while in hospital after being thrown down and forcibly given medication...my finances have suffered since i lost the job and i have not recovered....

I have proof of being homeless..having to go on ESA and transcript of the ET which mentioned that i was held in hospital...

I have merged your previous thread together with this one for ease.

 

So, the judge has asked you to calculate past and future losses of earnings as a result.

 

Based on 24k a year, or 2k a month, you need to apply this figure to the months since you lost the job, but you will have to then subtract what you have earned in that time, so if you are currently earning less you will generate a positive figure.

 

ie, earning 1k a month now, would leave you with a 1k shortfall per month, multiplied by however many months its been.

 

you say you were paid for 7 months after suspension i presume until you were dismissed so this wouldnt be included, you start from point of dismissal

 

 

Future earnings again, use the same principle and estimate the difference in earnings now to what you should have earned had you not been dismissed

 

Thats in its simplest form so wait for those better knowledge to add comment

The exact order states:

The claimant by aug 4 2016 serve on the defendant an updated schedule of past and future losses such statement to specify the amount claimed for each item of financial loss and the period for which it is claim and to be accompanied by copies of all documents not already served which are relied upon in support of the claimants case...

Just so we are clear..

.the schedule of loss i am need to submit pertains to my civil claim against the hospital who detained me under the mental health act..not my old job which is what the ET thread pertains to...

The ET case...this is after i lost...I didnt know what was going on as the solicitor i hired basically did nothing during the ET ...i was thinking about an appeal at the time so i came on here to get advice...

Before anyone could even begin to try and assess what your schedule of past and future losses would be, there needs to be some questions answered.

 

What was the ET about?

 

The ET pertained to unlawful dismissal from my job at the time...I was working at an NHS hospital but was suspended, then dismissed from the job due to allegations i used an equipment that i was not authorized to use...My defense was that the charge nurse responsible for the ward told me i could use the equipment, she even placed me with another person who she stated would train me to use said equipment...

 

I was under suspension for about 5months...had no union rep..no investigation was conducted...then approximately a week before i was sectioned under the MHA i received a letter from the job saying i was dismissed...i had 14 days to put in an adequate appeal against the dismissal... yet i as under section...I did the best i could-lucky i had access to the internet for a short while when i was being held-so i was able submit an appeal...

When you lost the ET tribunal, did you also lose your job or had you already lost your job?

 

I had already lost the job before the ET tribunal..However due to the mental health section i was unable to adequately prepare for an appeal against the dismissal...i lost the appeal then i filed for for unlawful dismissal...

 

How has the sectioning affected your future prospects of gaining employment in the same field prior to the sectioning?

 

The section will show up on any CRB check that all health care professionals are require to submit to before employment..the section will also affect my overseas travels..(i am a US trained nurse and i sometimes work in other countries)...I would have to declare the section on immigration paperwork esp the ones that pertains to traveling to the US..

 

What level of salary were you on at the time of sectioning/ ET ?

 

i was making about 24 grand a year at the time...however my wages in the US and other countries are way higher....

 

I think ultimately you WILL need a solicitor to represent you on this so regardless of any advice and help you receive here, that should really be the direction you should be going

This is the ultimate goal...i did try for a almost a year to find a solicitor but was unsuccessful.

Thanks..

Hi Guys,

I have a trial date coming up in about 5months for a very complicated legal matter which pertains to violation of my Human Rights, and the offending party is an NHS trust.

A brief synopsis of the case is that i was unlawfully detained in hospital under the Mental health act for 7weeks in 2013. During this detention i was actually in the middle of Employment Tribunal which pertained to my current job at the time http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?428780-ET-appeal-against-NHS-Assistance-required.. I ended up losing the case- as i was unable to fully defend myself and find a suitable solicitor to help due to the fact that i was being held under section 3 of the Mental Health Act.

Now i wanted to ask the experts on the board, if i can state in the schedule that my detainment affected my ET case as I was under detainment in hospital and could not fully concentrate on the ET matter. My detainment also adversely affected the quality of the legal advice i received for my ET case..

I also wanted advice on drafting a schedule of loss of past and future losses...

Can i include the yearly wage of that job i lost as my future loss?

The current case i have going on is quite complex, and i do have persons who are well versed in Mental health act 1983 helping me..These persons are not solicitors however thus do not know anything about civil court procedures...

Thus far, we have proven the Mental health warrant used to access me was basically forged by the social worker who came to my door, we know my nearest relative was never contacted and no other copies of the warrant that was used to access me can be found in my records other than the one i managed to keep on my person for 7weeks...

The defendant tried several times to get the case dismissed but the Judge was not convinced and the case is moving to trial..Judge has now ordered me to produce a schedule of loss of past and future losses...

..I have been working on this issue going on 2years and i feel as if i am in control and in fact i am confident i will succeed...

I say the above as i know many people are not really familiar with the MHA 1983, and some are reluctant to tack issues pertaining to this act...

Btw..and not that it matters...I am actually a trained Nurse, and i never had any contact with any mental health services in any country up until Sept 2013 when i was sectioned under the MHA 1983...

Yes it does !

Cool stuff ..I'm glad I asked first ..I will post the thread to ask the question later today ..I will definitely also donate..

Hi,

I wanted to ask you guys this before I post the actual thread..Is it appropriate to ask if anyone on the forum if they would be interested in a private legal consultation with me? They will be paid, and it pertains to a legal case I currently have going on?

I could post the issue on the forum, but I feel as if I have gotten so much free advice on this forum in the past and I would feel better if I could pay?

The issue pertains to drafting a schedule of loss for proceedings which I am the claimant, and I am also a litigant in person ..It is not a person injury claim- in fact it is a Human rights claim which involves unlawful detention ..

The matter is quite complex, but I am in control of things and I've been doing good so far..I just now need to submit a schedule of loss for the amount of compensation that I am asking for ..

Trial for the matter is set for sep 29th of this year..but I have to submit an updated schdule of loss for past and future losses by June 23rd ..

Thanks ..

Research the "Mitchell 3" and "Denton".

Excellent ...thanks for this..

Judicial review is used to challenge the process by which government bodies have reached a decision. It is not a method of appealing court orders made in litigation. It sounds like your thoughts about judicial review are barking up the wrong tree.

 

If you do not like a decision made by the DJ, your remedy is to appeal it. There is a clear process available for doing that which you can research online.

 

There is no corruption in the courts. Simply because you do not like the decision made by a judge does not mean he is 'biased' or 'corrupt'.

Yea thanks..but are not the one walking in my shoes, nor have experinced what I have experinced in the last year and a half..it is not about me 'not liking the decision' it is about challeleng the way in which the decision itself has been made ..in anycase I did state multiple times that I have appointment with CAB of the high court ...and as I said in the last 2 threads that I will try the appeal route..

One thing I won't do is drop the case...

Why are you asking Gannymede if you believe they get confused between an appeal and a judicial review?

(Incidentally, I don't agree : it appears to me you are the one who doesn't understand, not GM).

because i decided to go the appeal route rather than the Judicial review route now..the last response Gannymede gave to me was inline with what i was thinking today as i was doing some more research in regards to the APPEAL portion of the Judicial review requirement...At the beginning of the thread i did state that i was in the process of getting advice from CAB of the High Court...

I am going to go the appeal route now as it is REQUIREMENT anyways before one seeks a Judicial review....

the grounds of me getting the JR is simple..as i have stated multiple times..the case against the second defendant is STRUCK OUT so there is no logical reason for a judge to deny my application to get the stay lifted-stating the reasons is:i have yet to apply to a High Court to get permission to add the 2nd defendant....The case against the 1st and 2nd defendant are NOT dependent on each other...this is evidenced by the District Judge denying the application made by the 1st defendant to strike out my case...as they wanted to argue that since the 2nd defendant was not on the case then i had no case..

The DJ clearly disagreed....denied there application and gave CLEAR instructions as to when the stay can be lifted -so my case can be transferred....

The stay was to be lifted when i received correspondence from the High Court as to wether the 2nd defendant will be added..I did receive a letter and I SENT IT IN as per the judges instructions but this deputy Judge STILL denied my application to get he stay lifted so my case can be transferred...

..and THIS is the problem...

Not the merits or details about the case...

Why stop at the Court of Appeal?

There is always the Supreme Court......

 

However, be prepared to show where the lower courts have erred in law......

Exactly, i am prepared to go ALL the way(i just got a part time job just so i can PAY for all the court fees on my own..this is how serious i am in regards to this matter)..I KNOW the minute i get the attention of the any Court higher than the County in regards to this matter..the defendant will settle...I am in fact confidence of this...

Indeed, i am prepared to show were they erred in law....the case is simple to argue in open Court...There is no reason for the stay to remain on my case ...as the case against the 2nd defendant has been STUCK OUT...

Make an application to set aside the decision of the DDJ then if you think it was wrong.

 

You'll need to also apply for relief from sanctions as you are beyond the 7 days.

Another question Ganymede...i am going to fill out a N244 application and send it in to the Court with the fee..i will request to get a set aside..The part about relief of sanctions...do i have to give a reason for my application being late out side of 7 days..or do i just state that i am requesting a relief of sanctions?

And if they say NO based on my request to set aside being outside of the 7day timeline...can i then appeal to a Higher Court?

You are correct that : the Administrative Division of the High Court is likely to reject an application for judicial review at the initial application stage if your correct option should have been to appeal instead.

 

Additionally, even if a judicial review found in your favour it doesn't mean the same as a successful appeal : it doesn't mean you get a new finding in your favour, only that the decision is quashed and needs to be reconsidered. You could get a judicial review, the decision quashed, the issue reconsidered & then still get a decision against you.

 

A judicial review is likely to cost at least £20k.

 

On what basis are you claiming the judge was biased?.you'd need to provide evidence to support that assertion, and "They gave a decision against me" isn't the same as showing bias - otherwise there would be bias in every case as there is a finding against at least one party for every case.

 

"the Deputy Judge is perverting the order set out by the District Judge" : if you are going to make accusations of bias and "perverting" - you'll be asked to provide evidence of this!

Yea thanks i agree...i think i will go of the appeal route and if they keep blocking my my requests go all the way to the Court of appeals which will bring the attention of the Higher Courts to the matter...something both defendants..and even the County Court do not want...