Had the following email from FlixBus. Who now have offered to up the compensation to £900

Quote

I would like to explain our position on this issue.

 

We do believe that the bus driver should have treated you with much more care, attention and respect than he actually did. Thus, it is our will to refund you for inconveniences.

 

However, several details need to be assessed in the context of the further considerations.

 

We have also asked the bus driver for his statement on the issue. He admits some of the reproaches, but also feels having been disrespected to some extent.

 

As to the duration of regulation. We admit not having been very quick. However, we also depended on the email and phone communication with you and your availability. This also had significant gaps which prevented us from working the case further on time.

 

With regard to the claims asserted, we see cause for detailed consideration.

 

Without acknowledging the duty of refund, especially for hotel and plane expenses, we are willing to make a payment of £ 433,00 for the costs of alternative transportation.

 

For the inconveniences we are willing to compensate you with £ 400,00.

 

Our legal advisors in the United Kingdom strongly advise us to take action against the existing decision of the County Court at Salisbury.

 

Since we are interested in a quick and suitable solution, we offer you a total payment of £ 900,00. We would be very happy to find a solution of mutual satisfaction by this means.

 

Please note, that we need your statement on this offer by Monday, November 4^th  1:00 pm, as we need to inform our advisors in the UK on what to state before the Salisbury Court.

 

You may use and signs the document attached.

 

Thank you

I suspect they plan to file an appeal for relief from sanctions?

Should I let them try it?

Another update. 

This was the order from the Court during the hearing on 20th September is as follows:

Quote

Upon the Courts own initiative.

And upon considering the Defence dated 14/05/2019.

IT IS ORDERED THAT

(1) The defence shall be struck out pursuant to CPR Part 3.4(2)(a) as the Defence discloses no reasonable grounds for defending the claim.

(2) Judgment for the Claimant against the Defendant in the sum of 1,450.15 to be paid by 8th November 2019.

(3) The address for service of this order on the Defendant is: FlixMobility GmbH, Birketweg 33, 80639 Munchen. Germany.

(4) Because this Order has been made without a hear, the parties have the right to apply to have the order set aside, varied or stayed. A party making such an application must send or deliver the application to the court (together with any appropriate fee) to arrive within 7 days of service of this Order.

Dated 20/09/2019
Order Typed 23/10/2019

Then received a phone call today from FlixBus informing me they'd settle out of Court for around 750.00 

Needless to say I asked them if they'd received the latest documents from the Court. No was the answer. So I read out the order and politely declined the offer as the Court had already decided the case. The Representative requested a copy of the Order which I sent to them while I was on the phone. They advised me they'd get back to me on what would happen next...

On 11/10/2019 at 07:32, BazzaS said:

Are their coaches registered (for ‘number plates’)

a) to the firm in the U.K., or to a subsidiary or contractor, and

b) in the U.K. or e.g. Germany?
 

(They’ve already tried “wasn’t us, was a contractor” already).

HCEO’s would want to show the coach was an asset of the firm, not a contractor, and would have access to DVLA’s database of registered keeper, but may not have access to the equivalent (non-DVLA, foreign) database(s).

I know alot of them are German Plates. The vehicle I boarded that day was a German Plated vehicle if I remember correctly. But was in their corporate livery as most of their vehicles are. They also own Eurolines if I remember rightly.

I'm going to wait till 8th November 2019 to see what they come up with before doing anything further.

Just a very brief but positive update on this one.

The Police took no further action as the driver recalled the incident, accepted that he could've handled things differently but denied any wrongdoing. The Police also advised me that no CCTV footage could be retrieved as they DO NOT have CCTV onboard the bus. Whilst they had a manifest they choose not to contact any passengers or advertise for witnesses to come forward and the matter was disposed of with No Further Action. I also have a partial identity of the driver as the Police Officer when discussing what the driver responded inadvertently gave me his last name.

FlixBus filed what was the most laughable defence you could make to such a claim. I don't have the exact transcript to hand as I'm currently away but it was along the lines of:

"Incident cannot be attributed to us as this was a service operated by a partner company whom we've asked for comment. If the driver actually acted this way then this is an incident for which he is personally liable. We've reached out to the claimant to discuss out of court settlement"

Yeah that'll be the buses in FlixBus Livery with German Reg Plates then?? Hmmm...

They hadn't reached out at this point at all and it was several weeks afterwards that they contacted me and requested the footage I have taken. I complied with this. Several weeks went by during which the Courts requested our N180 Directions Questionnaires. I submitted mine as well as serving it to the "Legal Consul" contact from FlixBus. The CCMCC ordered that these be filed by 28th August 2019.

FlixBus did not file their N180. After this deadline had passed, I was sent an email asking to have a phone call. I replied the same day saying I was not prepared to discuss over the phone but would be happy to consider any proposals in writing. They did not respond.

A second email was sent to me again asking when a phone call could take place. I ignored this.

Meanwhile I sent the court the following letter:

Quote

 

Dear Sirs,

 

The Defendant, FlixMobility GmbH, in case number: <Redacted> have not complied with the order to file a Directions Questionnaire on or before 28/08/2019.

I respectfully bring this to the Courts attention and ask that they consider striking out the defence as they have had over 2 months since filing their defence to file their N180 Directions Questionnaire and yet have failed to do so.

I also bring to the Courts attention that the Defendants also filed their defence outside of the 21 day period to acknowledge service. However due to an error on my side (as a litigant in person) with the N244 application to request judgment out of jurisdiction, my understanding from the most recent order was the defence was allowed to stand. It is clear however the defendants have contempt for these proceedings and are not engaging in the processes.

I therefore respectfully request the Court to consider any appropriate Sanctions.

Yours Sincerely,
 

 

And an order was drawn up referring the case to my local court for a hearing upon notice. This caused me a bit of a panic as this hearing could've taken place during my trip away so I sent the court a letter informing them I would be away and unable to attend a hearing and to request that be taken into account.

Which brings us to the good news. My support person opened a letter for me while I was away and it turned out the District Judge had already reviewed the Court Bundle back in September and struck out their defence and awarded Judgment in full of just over £1,400! From their memory, it seems the Judge was pretty scathing of FlixBus defence too!

I will make a new post with the exact defence and Judgment on my return next week...

As for enforcement... Transfer to High Court and tell the HCEOs where they can find some of their coaches??

Just wanted to leave this local news story here. Again Smart Parking in the same town, but the car park just a little further up the road from where your PCN was issued...

https://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/15710685.driver-hit-by-4000-in-fines/

Shows you how incompetent SP are...!

No they don't have a UK Office unfortunately.

However I believe I have found why my Affidavit was defective. It seems the legislation.gov.uk website referenced Article 26 of the Lugano Convention when it should actually say Article 28.

So I think I now have a suitable Affidavit to request Judgment outside of Jurisdiction.

1) I am the Claimant in this case.
2) I served the N1 County Court Claim Form (Case Number: <Redacted> ) on the Defendant under the instructions of the County Court Money Claims Centre by way of a Postal Service allowed under Section 2, Article 14 of EU Regulation 1393/2007 and pursuant to CPR 6.8(a).
3) Article 19.1(b) of EU Regulation 1393/2007 Applies to this case with regards to the Service of Documents (N1 Claim Form) initiating proceedings as the Claim Form was sent to the Defendants Registered Business Address (also pursuant to CPR 6.8(a) ) and the Postal Service used provided a signature and proof of delivery receipt.
4) I utilized the Postal Service offered by <Redacted> and used the following service offered by them: <Redacted>. The courier collected the N1 Claim Form for delivery to the Defendant on <Redacted> at <Redacted> - Reference: <Redacted>
5) I utilized the services of <Redacted> to ensure full compliance with Section 2, Article 14 of EU Regulation 1393/2007 and pursuant to CPR PD 6B to ensure that delivery was tracked, a receipt of delivery was obtained to ensure the defendants had received the documents.
6) I became aware the Defendant received the N1 Claim Form on <Redacted> at <Redacted> signed for by: <Redacted> by way of the tracking information supplied to me by <Redacted> under reference: <Redacted>
7) There is now shown to me marked: Exhibit 1 - Pages 1 and 2 showing the Delivery Confirmation of the Claim Form from <Redacted> under reference: <Redacted>
8 ) By way of the above, I believe the evidence exhibited and statements made satisfy CPR PD 12.4.3(c)
9) There is now shown to me marked: Exhibit 1 - Page 3 showing the Defendants Registered Principle Place of Business as per their website, where the Claimant sent the Court Claim Form on the instructions of the CCMCC
10) The Defendants' principle place of business is located in Germany, A Member State under the Lugano Convention.
11) Under Article 18 of EU Regulation 1215/2012 - 18.1. A consumer may bring proceedings against the other party to a contract either in the courts of the Member State in which that party is domiciled or, regardless of the domicile of the other party, in the courts for the place where the consumer is domiciled.
12) I am regarded as a consumer in regards to Article 18.1 of EU Regulation 1215/2012, I am domiciled in the United Kingdom and this case relates to breach of contract. I therefore believe the UK Courts have the power to hear and decide this case by way of Article 18 of EU Regulation 1215/2012. I therefore believe, for the reasons stated above, that this satisfies the requirements of CPR PD 12.4.3(a)
13) The Claimant brings the Courts attention to Article's 18.1 and 24 of EU Regulation 1215/2012 whilst considering Exclusive Jurisdiction. As none of the clauses of Article 24 apply to this case in any way; and the alternative Article 18.1 does apply to this case; I respectfully ask the Court to consider that no other Court has Exclusive Jurisdiction in this matter and that CPR PD 12.4.3(b) is satisfied.
14) As per Article 28.3 of the Lugano Convention; The Claimant confirms there are no other legal proceedings taking place in relation to this matter, in any other Court System, in any other Territory or Member State.
15) I believe that the facts stated in this Affidavit are true.

It probably needs some tweaking. But considering how little information exists on constructing the Affidavit I'm reasonably happy to reattempt a submission.

Ok so some updates on this.

I started the process of a Claim a while ago and served the papers on the company by registered courier. They did not file a Defence or Acknowledgement of Service so I requested judgment by way of N244, N225, N215 and Affidavit.

Unfortunately the Judge rejected my Affidavit as it was not CPR PD 12.4.3 Compliant and has offered me 28 days to correct the mistake. However I am unsure how I need to amend my Affidavit to begin with, very little is covered on this online.

4.3  On an application where the defendant was served with the claim either:

(1) outside the jurisdiction⁷ without leave under the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgments Act 1982, the 2005 Hague Convention, the Lugano Convention or the Judgments Regulation, or

(2) within the jurisdiction but when domiciled⁸in Scotland or Northern Ireland or in any other Convention territory⁹ or Member State,

and the defendant has not acknowledged service, the evidence must establish that:

(a) the claim is one that the court has power to hear and decide,

(b) no other court has exclusive jurisdiction under the Act, the 2005 Hague Convention, the Lugano Convention or Judgments Regulation to hear and decide the claim, and

(c) the claim has been properly served in accordance with Article 20 of Schedule 1 to the Act, Article 9(c) of the 2005 Hague Convention, Article 26 of the Lugano Convention, paragraph 15 of Schedule 4 to the Act, or Article 26 of the Judgments Regulation.

What wording do I need for my Affidavit to make this compliant for CPR PD 12.4.3?

How do I explain the Court has the power to hear the case by way of the defendants being based in an EU Member State?

How do prove the negative of no other Court has exclusive Jurisdiction?

I can easily prove 12.4.3(2)(c) by way of the delivery confirmation, which was included with the Affidavit I used already.

Some advice on this one or pointer to where I can find such information would be great! Thanks again

After the company received the Judgment they contacted me for Bank Details and made a prompt payment. So the matter is resolved and the case is WON!!

I also discovered the Judgment is listed over on the Trust Online website. I think that's slightly better than if I simply discontinued as it may help others facing any future similar issues with such booking websites they can refer to my case.

Thanks again all for your help!

Wow... made a complete hash of trying to reformat this after accidentally hitting post before I'd finished. Post above can be deleted if needed.

Quote

Thank you for your email. I am sorry it has taken me some time to get back to you, I was away for the bank holiday weekend. I am more than happy to settle this matter out of court and once payment is received I will, of course, discontinue the claim.

I did not pursue DB on this as the tickets were booked via yourselves and my understanding of the terms and conditions (mainly clause 5.1) where the contract was with yourselves for the supply of tickets, with DB providing the actual train service. I did consider naming both yourselves and DB as co defendants but on seeking legal advice I was advised that as the tickets were booked via yourselves I should pursue the claim against Loco2 Ltd. The basis for this being you are responsible for your booking engine and should therefore have the capability to exclude trains that don't exist when they are pointed out. I'm sorry if that sounds blunt and rude, it's really not meant to come across this way. But as someone who worked as an IT Manager for several years, I believe it highly unlikely you do not have such a capability in your backend systems.

I also see no reason why DB would not accept a claim from yourselves for inaccurate data, particularly when it causes financial loss. Have you ever tried a test case with them? Any person or business can bring a claim if one wishes to do so. Any condition in a contract that prohibits bringing Court Action would be both unfair and unenforceable in any event. At least this is my understanding.

In regards to payment. If you could make a payment by BACS to the following:

<redacted>
Once payment is received I will notify the courts of settlement of the claim and discontinue the case.

Thank you again for taking the time to investigate this. I hope not to have soured relations but this was a significant amount of money I felt I should not have had to spend. This could have been far worse, imagine if the ticket had been issued and I arrived on the day expecting Eurostar 9129 to be running and found the ticket was defective.

Yours Sincerely,

Then things started to become difficult

Thanks for getting back to me. Our head office overnighted the papers to us and I was able to submit them on time. We agreed to pay the full amount, so whether we do it here or through the court is up to you.

Deutsche Bahn doesn't accept claims from us; instead, we work to correct the issues they cause. When customers are affected they are required (by DB) to go through DB directly. Your contract is also with them; please see our booking terms and conditions:

Your contract

    When you purchase a ticket using the service, the contract is for Loco2 to supply a valid ticket from a relevant carrier(s). This responsibility is discharged once the booking confirmation email has been sent, or in the case of postal tickets, the tickets posted by Loco2.
    After purchasing tickets you will have a separate contract with the relevant carrier(s). The terms and conditions of the carrier(s) will apply to your contract with them.
    For all matters associated with the actual travel and use of the tickets, your contract is directly with the relevant carrier. Loco2 acts only as an agent or sub-agent and will not be liable for any matters arising from, or connected with, the actual travel or use of the tickets, which do not form part of the contract with Loco2.
    The contract with the relevant carrier(s) includes the following, to which the use of the tickets is expressly subject:
        The relevant carrier's conditions of carriage and any byelaws of the carrier;
        Where travel is with two or more carriers in different countries, the International Convention for the Transportation of Passengers:
            Uniform Rules concerning the Contract of International Carriage of Passengers;
            the Uniform Additional Regulations to the CIV relating to the liability of the railway for death of and personal injury to passengers;
            the conditions of the Standard International Tariffs for the Transport of Passengers and their Luggage.
    All carriers within the EU are subject to EC Regulation No 1371/2007 on Rail Passenger Rights.

 

All that being said, while we would have preferred you'd gone through DB, this gives us an opportunity to push them to resolve these issues. We obviously don't want to be issuing tickets for trains that don't exist! And of course I'm very sorry for your inconvenience; you shouldn't have had this experience at all.

Let me know how you'd like to proceed. If you wish to go outside the courts we'd need proof that the case is withdrawn. However you wish to proceed, we are good for the refund. Let this email suffice as written confirmation.

Kind regards,

Obviously I'm not going to withdraw until I receive payment, so I completed N205A requesting Judgment on Admission and including their admission forms they sent to me. I was also mailed a copy of the companies accounts. I'm happy to upload these but I believe they are what is freely available over at Companies House.

Thanks for getting back to me and for such a detailed explanation.

I agree this should never have happened and I honestly believe it was an unintentional mistake.

I am not entirely comfortable discontinuing the case before payment is received. So if payment cannot be made before a discontinuance then I think we should continue the court process. The bundle should have included a Form F9A which can be used. If you could complete this and send the Court and Myself a copy I can then submit Form N205A which a District Judge then uses to finalise the order for payment.

HMCTS guide EX309 explains the process

Sent off the docs to CCMCC and expect to have the Judgment in the next few days. I'm not sure I fully accept they panicked and considered themselves out of time, because they replied to the claim a day before the forms were considered as Served by CCMCC. I think though, that rather than a discontinuance from my side on payment, to get a judgment may be beneficial to others in the future.

I'll update this as soon as I have payment or an update from the courts. I'd call this a win!

So an update on this, seems the CCMCC did issue the claim form but didn't serve it because the address was missing on the form. After reviewing my N1 I didn't understand and it seems that the copy / paste from Companies House made the address a c/o address and CCMCC don't like serving to those. So I wrote an email to them which stated the following:

Quote

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Further to your letter dated <redacted> regarding case <redacted> please serve the claim form on the following address:

 

Brachers, Somerfield House, London Road, Maidstone, Kent, England, ME16 8JH

 

This is the address of the defendants principle place of business as defined by Companies House. A copy of the Companies House record of address is included in this email.

 

I trust this satisfies CPR 16 PD 2.5 and the claim can now be served on the defendants.

 

Please contact me if you need any further information.
 

 

This was presented to a Judge who granted the request and the forms were served.

I then had correspondence from Loco2 Ltd

Quote

 

We've received your court summons, and will of course comply. Can you please confirm whether or not you pursued a claim with Deutsche Bahn as Daria recommended? As they publish the timetable and collected your payment, you would have needed to submit a claim directly to them. I'm not clear on whether or not you did so.

Many thanks,

 

I did not initially respond to this as I was away with my partner at the time and as I don't get to see her often I keep all admin / gaming community matters to emergencies only. This possibly turned out to my advantage as I received this further response the following day:

Quote

 

Hi again,

I've just heard back from our head of finance, and we're happy to provide you with the refund you request, £221.16. We would prefer to settle outside of court, in large part because we only received a scan of the court assignment yesterday (it was sent to our corporate office, and they passed the scan on to us only yesterday. We won't receive a hard copy we can fill out until at least tomorrow, when the paperwork is due).

Please let me know if this is acceptable to you, and that you'll withdraw the case. Once I have your confirmation I'll process the refund.

As an aside, I'm still curious if you applied to and heard back from DB. They don't accept claims from us, but I'd like to know on what grounds they would reject this.

I await your reply.
 

 

I responded agreeing to settle out of court.

No not too tough at all, I think I just used a bad way of writing this out. Indeed I'm well versed in CRA 2015 and thought my post would allude to that. But maybe I didn't write it very clearly so my apologies for that there. This was more a documentary style posting than a request for help so I'm sorry for any confusion on that point.

I was also more documenting this issue mainly for my own recollection at a later point but also for those who may be told the same in another Three store. I'm sorry if I didn't make any of this clear. The store is Hutchinson 3G Limited or Three as they are better known: http://three.co.uk/

I did a web chat with 3 while waiting for my train home who also confirmed the policy from the store manager was wrong and that it is 30 days to return a faulty handset for a replacement and not 28. On learning this I made the conversation a complaint that I was being given incorrect information on multiple occasions. I had attempted to get this issue resolved in a different store the previous week where they changed the SIM Card for me. CRA 2015 was not discussed at this point and was told if that didn't work then to call 333 from the handset. Again I knew this was wrong but took the replacement SIM card in good faith as it may very well have resolved the issue. Unfortunately it didn't.

I then contacted Three again and was palmed off to the manufacturer. The manufacturer accepted my case but suggested me going back to Three under CRA 2015. I today went to assert that right and was told both the manufacturer and Three Customer Service were wrong. I remained calm and asked for proof that I had been in the store today. Manager just gave me his name and I made a note of the time I was there and pointed to a CCTV camera in case a SAR would become necessary if Three tried to suggest otherwise.

As it happens I received a phone call after registering my complaint from the lady in the webchat with Three who had spoken with her manager and confirmed the store was wrong, that she could also see I was given incorrect information on a number of occasions and that under no circumstances should the store have given me a document with another customers details on. She went on to confirm that she had arranged a replacement handset was being couriered to my home address next week and that it would be a drop and swap type replacement. I accepted this, Just as I was about to explain the wasted journey costs the agent said she was waiving 1 month bill charges for the inconvenience caused.

So seems a resolution is very well on the way. I'll update this as resolved once I have the new handset and bill credit in my hands.

I recently upgraded my 3 Contract to a new phone which developed a problem.

I contacted 3 and was initially told to speak to the manufacturer.

They advised that as I was in the 30 day period of Consumer Rights Act 2015 to request a replacement that I go to the store to arrange this as it would offer a faster resolution.

I agreed with this course of action and went to the store on day 29.

Leaving it late admittedly due to health issues.

When I arrived at the store the Assistant Manager then gave just about every excuse under the sun about being able to help but because the policy was 28 days not 30 they could not help me.

I countered this with CRA 2015 being 30 days and they refused to accept this so I asked for the policy in writing.

We both looked on the 3 store website but embarrassingly enough for them it didn't state anything about faulty goods.

The actual wording in the contract that I signed says "Refer to three.co.uk/returns" for the Full Policy which doesn't explain anything about replacement faulty goods.

I know why... Because it's the legal requirement of 30 days...

Store Manager being adamant the period for returns was 28 days refused to back down

I asked him to look up CRA 2015 which they declined saying "It's not my job to know the law" …

Of course if you're selling goods and services and are a manager you should be versed in CRA 2015.

Realising they weren't getting me to fold my argument they requested a colleague get a copy of the policy from the back room.

When they returned it was very clear the document they were about to show me was the signed contract of another customer.

Consequently I called this out and said "Don't show me that, that's someone else's personal data" which they seemed to take offence at and said I was just trying to give them a hard time.

They went on to justify saying that what they were trying to show me had no personal data despite initials and a signature being clearly visible.

I again instructed they take the document away from me.

The wording was so small that the only way for me to read it would be to have actually taken the document to look at it.

The ultimate irony is that policy in this other customers document would be irrelevant because that's not the document I signed.

Realising I was getting palmed off and probably being labeled as toxic I decided to leave, but not before writing his name down and sending off a blunt tweet to 3...

Needless to say I'm not too impressed,

£16.55 out of pocket for a train ticket,

probably going to need to return to the store again and having to put up with a broken phone either for 2 weeks

(If manufacturer deal with this) or having to fight an outside 30 day period.

Tweet Sent...

But not sure how I should approach that GDPR issue...

So desperate to prove a point the manager didn't have he throws all regards to another customers data out the window?

When does my bad luck ever end...

Hi all,

Having a bit of a headache with TV Licensing which I've been trying to sort out for my friend.

My friend suffers from various mental health issues, is in receipt of benefits and has trouble managing their finances.

They recently had a letter from TV Licensing with a payment plan over 4 months for £35 per month.

This is completely unsustainable for them,

instead they wrote a letter requesting a payment plan over 9 months but still within the same year.

They'd pay around £8.00 per fortnight this way on the day they receive their benefits so the peace of mind is there that it has been paid.

Today they received a very unpleasant phonecall from them saying they were now unlicensed, that someone would visit them today, they be fined £1,000 and have a court appearance. I know most of that is being very economical with the truth, but that is what was said.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a fine and court appearance for someone who refuses to pay or deliberately evades the license fee? Not someone who is in genuine financial difficulty so advised TVL as such and gave a repayment proposal they knew they could adhere too?

Needless to say they felt very threatened and I got a panic phone call this morning which lead into a vicious argument, which I myself didn't particularly need either.

Is there a way that TVL can be 'forced' into accepting the payment arrangement? Or can a deduction from benefits application be made to them?

Loco2 was who I attempted to book the ticket with for travel on . They were also who I booked my actual ticket with for travel on the following day.

Their terms and conditions say this - https://loco2.com/en/booking-terms-and-conditions#contract :

Quote

 

5.1 When you purchase a ticket using the service, the contract is for Loco2 to supply a valid ticket from a relevant carrier(s). This responsibility is discharged once the booking confirmation email has been sent, or in the case of postal tickets, the tickets posted by Loco2.

5.2 After purchasing tickets you will have a separate contract with the relevant carrier(s). The terms and conditions of the carrier(s) will apply to your contract with them.
 

 

So I'm inclined to reject that response as they should have sorted themselves out as you rightly say.

Had this response just now:

Thanks for getting in touch and I'm sorry for all the troubles you went through.

Loco2 is a booking platform, and when you search for a ticket on Loco2, our software queries the rail operator's booking system for prices. Tickets are subject to availability which can change at any time.

As <redacted> explained in her previous email, the issue is that the rail operator's system is showing a train that isn't running. They're responsible for providing the correct timetable, and Loco2 only holds responsibility for placing an order on your behalf.

In this case, I suggest that you file a complaint with Deutsche Bahn directly.

I'm really sorry I couldn't be of more assistance here. If there's something else I can do to help, please let me know.

So time to file the claim form? Or should I approach Deutsche Bahn?

Ok sent the LBC. It seems I'm the proverbial guinea  pig on this one in this case. Fortunately I am entitled to HWF so my expended costs on this are nil minus time (which I probably have too much of right now) and any potential counter claim. I'll take that chance too. It also saves them being exposed to the same fees I guess too.

The bit that annoys me most on this one, is the price for the same train went UP after it was reported. So it seems to me there was a factor here that allowed it to continue. From the other thread, we also know it happened more than once so it plausible it affected someone else.

Hi BankFodder. Please see below:

Quote

Dear Sirs,

Letter Before Action

On 24/12/2018 I attempted to use your website (Loco2.com) to view available trains for travel from Hamburg Hbf – I was given an option for a 00:34 departure from Hamburg Hbf to on 29/12/2018 for £155.00

I accepted this and made arrangements to travel to Hamburg by way of booking a Flight, Hotel and Railway Tickets to reach the airport in the UK.

On attempting to book the 00:34 departure from Hamburg I found I was unable to do so and was presented with an error advising that a reservation on the Eurostar from Brussels – London St Pancras was not possible. Your website displayed a message saying there was possibly an issue booking the ticket due to the connection to the Deutsche Bahn reservation system, This implied the problem was only temporary one. After several further attempts I tried booking with Deutsche Bahn directly on bahn.de and this also failed. I then looked on Eurostar.com and discovered that the train your website was advertising was Eurostar Train #9129 which runs on Sundays only. The 29th December 2018 was a Saturday.

Your website (and bahn.de) was therefore advertising a service that didn’t exist.

I believe this constitutes as an Unfair Trading Practice, contrary to the Consumer Protection (Amended) Regulations 2014. Specifically Schedule 1, Point 5, 6a and 9.

As such I am seeking redress for damages incurred as a result of your companies actions under the “The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (Amended 2014)” Under Section 4A a consumer has the right to redress if he can demonstrate:

27A. 1.(a) the conditions in this regulation are met,
1.(b) the conditions (if any) in the following provisions of this Part for the availability of that right are met.
2. The first condition is that—
2.(a) the consumer enters into a contract with a trader for the sale or supply of a product by the trader (a “business to consumer contract”)
4. The second condition is that—
4.(a) the trader engages in a prohibited practice in relation to the product
6. The third condition is that—
the prohibited practice is a significant factor in the consumer’s decision to enter into the contract or make the payment.

27J. 1. Subject as follows, a consumer has the right to damages if the consumer—
1.(a) has incurred financial loss which the consumer would not have incurred if the prohibited practice in question had not taken place, or
1.(b) has suffered alarm, distress or physical inconvenience or discomfort which the consumer would not have suffered if the prohibited practice in question had not taken place.

Because your website was offering a method of travel that did not exist, I was significantly influenced to book my weekend break in Germany. Had I been aware of the substantial extra costs I would not have proceeded with the trip and postponed travel till January.

I reasonably believed the journey was available and the price advertised was because the methods of travel were overnight, during the early hours of the morning and because the trains used were “stopping commuter services”

It was extremely disappointing and unsatisfactory to note that this train continued to be advertised for several days after reporting the issue to your Head of Customer Service. I also noticed the price increased closer to the date of travel so it is clear this practice was allowed to continue and mislead potential passengers.

I further discovered I was not able to book any trains for 29th December as nearly all Eurostar services from Brussels were fully booked with most trains having seats in Business Premier Class only. I was left with the difficult decision of the following:

1. Train to Schiedam Central, Ferry to Harwich International and a Train home. This would have taken over 20 hours and meant I would not have been able to sleep for at least 36 hours.
2. Pay for a Business Premier ticket which was at the time an additional £400
3. Stay an extra day in Hamburg and take a train home on 30/12/2018 and accept I would have to contend with the Great Western Railway closures at both Slough and Westbury.
4. Ask a friend to collect me at the end of the trip by Car.
5. Abandon the trip completely and accept a financial loss of already booked Hotel, Flight and Train tickets.

I settled with option 3 but this was only possible due to temporary financial assistance from my parents and had this not been available then the trip would have been postponed.

My losses are detailed as follows:

Expense Description: Cost incurred:
Additional night stay in Hamburg Crowne Plaza Hotel £95.62
Train Ticket Hamburg Hbf – Cologne Hbf £72.00
Train Ticket Cologne Hbf – London St Pancras International £104.00
Train Ticket London St Pancras International – £50.90
Hotel in Brussels for 1 night £53.64
Train Ticket Brussels-Midi – Brussels Airport £16.76
Sub Total: £392.92
- Minus Ticket that I was intending to purchase - £155.00
- Minus Food and Drink Expenses as Gesture of Good Will - £16.76
Sub Total: - £171.76

GRAND TOTAL: £221.16

 

As I only wish to cover my reasonable losses because of this action, I have waived some food and drinks costs incurred as a gesture of goodwill. This means I have deducted 18 Euros for Breakfast on 29/12/2018.

I have also included invoices from the respective hotels and travel documents as evidence of the costs incurred.

As the amount of time since the payment has been made is very small, I will not be requesting the statutory 8% interest a Court can award on this occasion.

I have also attached evidence showing the additional costs for the differing options, to demonstrate I have made considerable effort to keep my further losses as low as possible.

I therefore formally and politely request that you provide reimbursement of £221.16 within the next 14 days of the date of this letter. If you cannot provide this settlement then please provide me with a full and final response detailing why you disagree with this claim within 14 days.

If payment is not received within the stipulated timeframe, then I will begin legal proceedings by way of a County Court Claim in the Small Claims Court without further notice to you.

I look forward to hearing from you and receiving payment.

Yours Sincerely,

NS

Expenses:

Additional night stay in Hamburg Crowne Plaza Hotel £95.62

Train Ticket Hamburg Hbf – Cologne Hbf £72.00

Train Ticket Cologne Hbf – London St Pancras International £104.00

Train Ticket London St Pancras International – £50.90

Hotel in Brussels for 1 night £53.64

Train Ticket Brussels-Midi – Brussels Airport £16.76

Sub Total:

- Minus Ticket that I was intending to purchase - £155.00

- Minus Food and Drink Expenses as Gesture of Good Will - £16.76

Sub Total: - £171.76

GRAND TOTAL: £221.16

I did have an explanation of why I wanted to travel back specifically on the day this ticket was available, but I've removed it as I don't think it's necessary any further.

Thanks ericsbrother, I am only requesting compensation for my losses and wanted the court to consider an award for extended damages due to the nature of the incident, I am aware it's unlikely to be awarded. That said, now you've mentioned it I believe the Vento Scale is appropriate and this be taken on as a discrimination case. One of the disabilities in question that was 'mocked' by the bus driver is incontinence. I have a conversation with the driver explaining the disability and I have that on video as well, including how they refused to engage in any constructive conversation which denied any reasonable remedy.

Another example of a reasonable remedy could have been the driver to drop me off that the same petrol station and I would wait there for the next available FlixBus service. I would have accepted that as the petrol station had a cafe and toilets and I would rather a significant delay to my journey than something much worse happening. To give an example I travelled some months ago on an Advance ticket on a train and the only working toilet became defective during the journey. The conductor contacted his control room and I was allowed to alight at the next station and wait for a later train without needing to buy a new ticket.

Having read a few things online including this pamphlet from the Equality Human Rights Commission website - https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/quantification-of-claims-guidance.pdf

An example of a higher award should be considered and one of the items listed in this PDF is: "Where the matter relates to a private or intimate aspect of the victim’s life, for example, the bowel habits of a disabled person with Crohn’s disease" which is condition part of the Inflammatory Bowel Disease family. I have a condition under the same family which is a cause of the issue surrounding incontinence. Having evidence the driver refused to engage in any conversation surrounding the issue and other passengers getting involved I could probably aim for the middle scale if I wished. However this will probably change how the claim is made against them I am guessing? So when filing the N1 I would assume I tick the box for an unspecified sum? So far the company has refused to engage in any conversation at all and have been obstructive. I did however give them 14 days to respond rather than 7.

I'm happy to go for the lower end of the lower Vento Scale as I really don't want this to be a "feel better" case and I want to honestly believe this was just a bad apple and isolated incident. But I do want it to be taken seriously enough that the company should think twice about putting defective vehicles into service in the future. Or at the very least provide a reasonable remedy for someone with such an issue if it happened again. I think I'll contact the EHRC and see what they think.

Do you know of any places off the top of your head where I could look at case law to read over and supply as arguments? I'll do some more googling this morning and see where we go from there.

As always thanks for your replies.

Done - It's over here:

At the request of BankFodder I have created a new thread on this issue. Site team if you feel it's best to merge the threads please do so.

I will try to be as brief and factual as possible. The core issues were as follows:

• I was travelling to Hamburg over the Christmas Period to see a friend, Found a Flight Outbound, Hotel and Eurostar home.
• After booking the Flight and Hotel, I discovered I could not book the Eurostar ticket on either Loco2 or Bahn.de
• I discovered the booking engine at Loco2 and Bahn.de was advertising Eurostar Train #9129 (which only runs on Sunday) as running on a Saturday.
• After contacting Loco2 I was told to wait a while and attempt to rebook it, If I could not I was told to book a different train.
• All other trains on that day were for exorbitant amounts in the region of £400
• I had to travel home the following day and compete with 2 sets of major Engineering Works on Great Western Railway, causing delay and inconvenience. This ticket was also considerably more expensive and I had an extra hotel bill in Brussels.

It was suggested this was a good example of Unfair Trading -  https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-protection-from-unfair-trading-regulations-2008 - as the companies concerned were advertising Train services they knew were never going to run. The trains remained advertised after reporting the discrepancy and eventually the price increased the closer the time got to departure, even after it was reported as a non usable train. It was also discovered the same problem with train #9129 happened on more than 1 occasion.

I believe I could satisfy the condition that the unfair practice influenced my decision to make the booking, as I had already by that point spent £200 on a Flight and Hotel for the weekend. Had I known I could not book that train, I would have made other arrangements with the trip or postponed it until January.

I contacted Loco2 and their response was in a nutshell "It's not our fault, there is nothing we can do, we can only report the discrepancies"

I had drafted an LBC to send to Loco2 citing CPUTR 2008 and my intention to sue. But was advised to hold off, it's in my previous thread here:

Thoughts anyone? Thanks : )

Referred to the ICO and a letter before claim is being sent later today.

Someone in the company has found this thread or it's finally come to head office as I just went into my FlixBus account to download the invoice to work out the total costs for the LBC and found my account has been deleted with no explanation... I managed to recreate the account with the same email address, so while it is entirely possible it was a glitch... It seems too coincidental to be such.

I've decided to claim for the following:

Both outward and return FlixBus tickets (After all the Driver said I'd never be allowed to travel again...) £85.00

Airline Ticket €223.99 (Economy Class to final destination)

TGV Ticket from Calais an Airport €75.00 (2nd Class)

Bus Ticket (Unknown Location - Calais Station) €1.70

Extra Night (Friday) in the Hotel I had already booked for the Saturday Night £75.00

Injury, Distress, Inconvenience etc ... Undecided on the amount. Probably £1,000

I'm going to give them 7 days to respond to the LBC which takes us dangerously close to 22nd March 2019. If they end up deleting the footage then thats tough luck on them I guess.

Just an update. I'm having a real headache with this now because the Courts have well and truly made a complete hash of my case.

I filed action in the County Court against the company via Salford County Court Money Claims Centre. As the defendant is in the USA I had to self serve them the papers which I did by registered and tracked post. They received them and contacted me but to date an amicable agreement has not been made.

Fast forwards and after 3 weeks I heard nothing from them so I requested judgment by default. I was advised to complete forms N225, N215 and N244 with a £100 fee to request judgment outside of jurisdiction.

It later transpired a day after I filed these documents the court received a part admission of the claim with supplementary defence. I rejected the part admission as it did not satisfy my situation.

I received my Judgment against them on 04/01/2019. A few days later I received a letter saying someone had Set Aside the Judgment because I had not satisfied CPR 12 and CPR PD 12. I filed a complaint against this as this is what the N244 and N215 was for. It was referred back to a Judge for a second time who states the Judgment should remain set aside as a defence has been filed and an Affidavit was not filed (Which I was told was the N215)

It has taken the Courts nearly 2 months to investigate this and I am really frustrated as I am no closer to a hearing or judgment.

The bit that annoys me is the Court sent the part admission documents back to the defendant as a judgment had already been entered. So why is the Judge saying this should be considered in any event?

It is probable the case is now stayed. I requested this be delayed due to the time it is taking to investigate the complaint. However the courts have been tediously slow in managing my case and am at a loss what to do now.

I'm aware I can apply to have the Stay lifted for £255 (I have help with fees eligibility) but the principle is this seems to be their mistake.

TL';DR

Judgment granted

Defence Filed and Part Admission

Judgment set aside due to not satisfying CPR 12 (When it had been)

Complaint made and Set Aside remains

No idea if the case is Stayed or not

Court being tediously slow resolving this

I sent them a SAR for this within a few days of the incident taking place. I have today had a response which states:

"Due to data security a request for possible surveillance footage can be request by prosecutors or similar authorities only."

As the matter has been reported to the Police I have responded stating the footage must be preserved (If it even exists) and if it does, It must be passed onto the Police quoting my crime reference number.

I have also learned that drivers pointing fingers in peoples faces during any form of disagreement is not unheard of.

I've written a bit more of my letter to them but not quite finished it yet. Is there anything else I should be doing in the mean time?

I'm aware the Gov website says the CCTV owner can refuse but I'm not sure if the grounds for refusal are valid. I believe they are as I am requesting footage of an incident between myself and 2 people. . So far the Police have yet to respond to my complaint and I am concerned if footage does exist that it will be lost if I do not act quickly. So should I make a Court Order for example to retain that footage?

I have also requested footage from Le Shuttle.

Hello All,

I recently had the displeasure of travelling with Flixbus on a journey I won't name for reasons that will soon become obvious.

I was due to see my partner and not wanting to part with £400 to go Ryanair I decided to try the Coach for £90

When the journey started the driver announced the toilet was only to be used for urinating.

When the driver arrived at the Ferry Terminal they announced the toilet would be closed from there until the next scheduled stop, probably further. They also said there would be no stops for a comfort break and it would be a straight drive.

I have several disabilities and health conditions, one being Autism and another condition incontinence.

I explained to the driver my problem with not having a toilet and suggested it was best I alight at the Terminal and continue my journey under my own fruition. But for absolutely no reason the driver became the biggest ball of rage and anger I've seen from a staff member in the transport industry.

They pointed their finger so it was around 5cm from my nose and yelled at me "CALM DOWN!!" when i was perfectly calm already. They then began to start swearing at me. I never lose my temper and/or swear in an argument as you immediately lose.

 when I replied "Don't talk to me like that" for the driver to get out of their seat, square up to me and look down at me and yell "OR WHAT?" I realised I was in a very bad situation. More expletives were fired my way and they told me to go back to my seat so in order to give them time to cool off I decided to step away.

The driver then returned after several minutes (ironically to relieve themselves) and I tried to explain the situation again and started out with "Can we have a polite and civil conversation". I also began recording at this point on my phone.

Again I was met with things like "don't talk to me like that" and them becoming verbally aggressive.

At this point I was having no more of this and demanded my suitcase from the hold and that I get off the bus.

The driver said they had to call for permission from their control room and that "I'd never be allowed to travel again" if that was done. "If you want to be vindictive, thats up to you" I replied.

The request was granted and I was invited to sign a waiver (Which I couldn't read as the drivers writing was illegible) and then the driver began making death threats. "If my son was here you'd be 6 feet under"

I ignored this but they kept repeating themselves presumably to gain a reaction.

Eventually I just replied "You're scaring me now" and they responded "Good. You should be. My son is not here so you're very lucky, very very lucky"

I then realised my choice of clothing was incredibly unfortunate. A large hoodie with the word UNLUKCY written across the front. At this point I made an attempt to conceal this so as not to provoke the driver further by them inadvertently seeing this and somehow knocked my phone back into record mode.

The driver heard it and then hit my hand so my phone fell away onto the floor. Luckily it was not damaged. Then spouted some nonsense about recording without permission.

I decided not to pick that battle as I considered myself in danger and they probably wouldn't have listened so I left that battle well and truly alone. I was also well within the back of my mind that the driver would say he'd let me off but then refuse to stop and put me in a situation where disaster was inevitable.

I then was reunited with my bag and went back to my seat. I then heard the driver say something along the lines (To what I believe was a colleague and/or friend) "If I find a video on Facebook, I'll rip his **** head off!" and by now I was pretty worked up and knew I could be in serious trouble. But nevertheless I was thrown out at a Petrol Station somewhere on a Calais Motorway. Thinking I'd be left at the terminal... I didn't overly appreciate the 5KM walk to the nearest bus stop.

So in terms of a complaints procedure. Receiving death threats from an employee probably warrants Police Action, So the matter was reported to them but I've yet to have any contact back from the constabulary.

Having reviewed and looked around I think it's best to claim against the operator for breach of contract under Consumer Rights Act 2015 and Breach of the Equality Act 2010. After all, stopping the bus at a roadside service station for 2 minutes is easily considered a reasonable adjustment. It's no different to the bus waiting 2 minutes at a traffic light. The bus company however put the vehicle in service knowing the toilet was faulty as this was announced at the start of the journey.

Their website also says every bus has a toilet onboard so that is considered a binding term under services provided pursuant to Consumer Rights Act 2015 as I relied on it. My understanding is this also allows me to claim for consequential losses to get to my destination. Which was in the region of 300 euros. My partner and I concluded there was an event taking place in the area I travelled as every flight with every airline was extremely expensive and we've never seen the central railway station so busy on a weekend.

My main question is a couple of my friends suggested I should claim for emotional distress and physical injury (walking 5KM when my doctor says I shouldn't walk more than 200m. My body kindly reminded me there is a reason for that...). Plus being on the receiving end of words mocking my disabilities. I won't mention exactly what was said here but it's probably enough to call it a hate crime.

Nevertheless I don't want this to sound worse than it probably was and I actually don't want the driver to lose their job either. I have already said this to the company by phone.

Simply put, I'd accept the following:

Driver to take a Disability Awareness Course, Conflict Resolution Training and be educated on ones right to film in public. Plus an apology for their actions. In turn I will happily respond in kind if it is found I said something in a matter that was perceived as rude but that was not how it was intended.

Reimbursement of Tickets and Consequential Tickets booked. As I arrived earlier it might be worth arguing a hotel night stay as well.

I won't bill them for my return tickets home. However I did not use the booked ticket as I had no intention of arriving at the Bus Station to board and finding either A) The same driver and/or B) Found the tickets had been cancelled. So I want them to refund those too.

However I'd just want to ask what you guys thought if this was you or your disabled relative and whether you'd want to look at emotional stress and inconvenience? If so how do you gauge what that was worth?

I could write the after effects this has had, but it won't change anything. However I want to be very clear, having soiled a coach when a teacher refused to allow the bus to stop in my teenage years and then getting mocked until the end of my school days for it... This whole thing brought back a very unfriendly reminder of how difficult travelling can be.

In terms of how far I've got. I've logged the incident with the Police. I have started writing a letter. Just wanted a 2nd and 3rd opinion to see if I'm going about this the right way.

One day my bad luck will end... Just not quite yet it seems lol

hold off for the mo. I'm away at present and using a phone.

There is no hurry on this.

Hi BankFodder,

I'd like to take this up in the near future and just wondered what the next steps should be.

I can confirm this was also a problem for 22nd December 2018

22122018.pdf

Good news is I can't get the booking engine for give me Train 9129 on the days Ploddertom has mentioned, even if I try and force it to by adding a stopover in Brussels of a minimum 1 hour.