March 19, 2007: GE Money, now in 54 countries

http://www.innercitypress.org/ge.html

Money is power and GE have plenty of that , in fact lets call ourselves Money

yeah ocwen now in trouble , but they replaced a old company , and to rub salt into the wound , ocwen was born , put into a mirror we have NEWCO , new company , this group of bankers hold some magical powers , if thats not an insult then I am cinderella ,

and GE got hold of it because they are part the set up , look into the history of First National Bank , this is how it all started ,

the history is amazing ,

Yes very global , they strike like a hurricane and leave devastation , they seems to be problems in every corner of the world , then once a bad name , they switch under a number of company names they use , they always end up with other companies customers , name changes or whatever excuse you want to call it ,

here is a good one that sticks in my mind , has anyone heard of a company called ocwen, I believe and documents/information in the domain state that a company that had major problems regarding they business methods and actions , disappeared and surfaced with the above name , read it backwards ,

I was told about this also from a trading standard officer, part of the i*roup, and our good friends are part this group also , they are a law within themselves ,

how can an American operation source business in forigen fields then treat the said customers the way they do breaching many of our regulations and still the courts find it hard to go against them , and goverment who rubber stamp the legislations/regulations stand back and let our financial interests be wiped out by none uk interest , is it not time the goverment stood up and lay the law of our land to be welcome to operate in our country ,

Why do these operations feel they can operate this way , if they knew they could not get away with it , do you think they would still be doing this with thouands of uk consumers????????????

the law is they to protect you against these type of set ups , use it , before its too late ,

do you honestly blame them for doing as they do ?

Must agree the thread is very quiet , seems like everyone disappeared or have given up the fight , we rarely get notification to our email that someone had replied to the thread , this is what GE do best , wear you down , they is many ways to attack them its just getting it right , I have mentioned in many posts our line of attack , been told a few times it was the wrong way to go about things , I beg to differ , but not here to argue ,

I have seen advice given that would bar your legal right to terminate your agreement , I am not a laywer , but certainly believe we played our cards right , agreement is terminated , just a case of getting the 9 years worth of repayments back with interest , plus huge balance wiped out which removes the charge on the family home ,

it would be a simple money claim , to reclaim back the unjust enrichment GE have gained over the loan term ,

It would be great to hear how others are doing , where they are at , or how GE give in or fought on .

Thanks. michellej1, mine is dated early in that year, However i am of the opinion, If the adder appears to be dead, do not disturb! These firms have a lot to answer for regarding peoples health,IMHO. if you are S/E and fall ill, have an accident,whatever, they are ready to pounce and ensure they penalize you and cause even more stress, distress and illness, i am new to this amasing site, i fully intend to attack my cc,s to get all the money illegally taken from me back, with interest! i am amased that it is still left to people, to try and get money 'effectively stolen' by a once trusted industry back themselves. any money taken should be given back to its rightfull owner automatically by law! where else would any organisation get away with taking money? but it appears there is no such law. individuals have to go through stress again in an attemt to get thier own money returned. As for this particular firm,i do not have the strength to risk shooting myself in the foot, as i really do not have the confidence or knowledge as yet to do so. perhaps if i were to be given the tools and information of successes, i may do so at some future time, for the time being i am best doing things i do understand. regards Ro

well that a shame , but have another copy from a friend dated 2009 , just for the record should you need a copy

whoooops , direct link above , I advise all to save to computer for future ref , its an important document

have fun with it , eye opening

Well just because a fee on the agreement is shown , does not for one minute suggest that a secret commission was not paid to your broker ,

the internal is date 2008 , so if your agreement was befor 08 , you can bet your bottom dollar you will have a case , you might just be able to put the clock back

When you say ' the internal, as in red above, I take it you mean the downloaded info from that source newto supplied Michelle?

 

YES, You are correct

 

What I also think we need to be aware of is that if the Agreement is rescinded, then one might still have the balance borrowed to pay back - recission...takes you back to before the event happened.

 

Another thing Michelle, I could'nt quite make out what you were saying here in the post above:

 

Another thing , would this remove the need to seek underwriting sheets to prove a commission if a brokers fee is shown on the agreement ?

 

Remove the need to request underwriters sheet to prove a commission was paid, because if your agreement shows a brokers FEE, then without an underwriters sheets what are your reasons for believing a secret commission was paid? the internal would remove the need for the underwriters sheet , do you get my point? straight from horses mouth , no need for evidence in the shape of an underwriters sheet.

 

I attacked without sight of the underwriters sheet and alleged a secret commission was part my transaction , on the grounds that the broker was independant and would need to be paid for his work in regard to the loan recieved,

 

A brokers fee on the agreement would invariably be the commission you paid your broker which gets added to the loan (because most people don't have the money to pay them up front and this broker fee gets added to your loan) Now't wrong with that if it's included correctly if a CCA regulated loan.

 

I disagree with you , if on the agreement then how is it a secret commission ? brokers fees and secret commission are 2 different thing Andrew as you well know ,

 

The secret commission as we refer to here would not appear on the agreement. It would show on an underwriting sheet and that's why we all go looking for them, for concrete proof one was paid in our particular loans. What the website has proved beyond doubt though is that all brokers do indeed get a 'second' commission, according to the size of the loan which should have been declared by the broker to you or me when we took out our loan so that there was absolute transparency in how much he/she receievd from one lender over another.

 

regarding secret commission, I have never stated they have Andrew , that the secret commission would be in any other place then the underwriters sheets , you miss my point , most agreements would show a brokers fee yeah , you alleged a secret commission was paid , lender will not provide underwriters sheet full stop , how would one prove it , so we wait till we have concrete proof ,

With internal no need to wait for underwriters sheet , you now have your proof ,

 

And if for some reason your agreement does not show a brokers fees , you have your reason to request the underwriters sheet , if refused you have your proof without the need for the document ,

as no fee on agreement equals the lender paid an undisclosed commission , refusal to disclose backs up your allegation .

If you have a brokers fee on the agreement , then some form of explanation why you need this document will be request by the lender , you alleged secret commission , you will be asked to prove it , and told that you paid the broker as stated on agreement ,

 

hope i am making sense

 

 

If, for example, we could have this website info newto found for ALL Lenders then we could make comparisons with their commission structures so we could prove beyond doubt also that one lender paid more than another and could perhaps have made the broker bias in which products they sold or tried to sell to customers making the unbiased stance they should have given their fiduciary duty to the consumer to sell you what is suitable to YOU not THEM in bigger commssions from one rather than another!

 

This should have been declared to us by the broker and generally is not which makes it secret in one degree or another. Worst case is they try and hide the fact and conceal it negating any attempt they have made in trying to convince you that it is mentioned in their agreement or some FISA document they allege you were given. If that's the case the case is serious. If secrecy was not so concealed then one might get the broker fees back as you've paid them via higher interest rates rather than being as with the general broker fee we pay, and added to your loan..

You see they is a few ways to look at this , and internal should make it easy , I am surprised not many are contributing to this thread , has everyone give in? probably sick of waiting on underwriters sheets , come on folks put your thoughts in ,

Notice to Rescind, This is when you kindly inform your lenders by way of notice your legal right to reject the contract and ceased payments

with the added bonus of all monies paid returned (with interest)

And the internal will put you in this situation if used correctly , the document proves secret commission is paid without doubt, if this is so, then the agreement is voidable , you can now legally Rescind the contract and the lenders will have an impossible job enforcing the agreement against you in any court,

The document even removes the need to explain or argue your point in court , bang to rights are the words I was looking for

Do not see much excitement in the thread over latest document , its a killer folks , and Newto thanks again , for one who only has a few posts, you have probably posted the most important on the forum for G E customers , well done

Well let's hope you approve it Martin as it proves unequivicably that commissions are and were paid - something eveyone on the GE threads have been told didn't happen.

I agree Andrew , glad I saved it to file ,

I will be forwarding this to GE , as you are right it proves 100% that secret commissions are part of the transactions regardless if ppi is included in the agreement , I do not know how they could defend this in court ,

Another thing , would this remove the need to seek underwriting sheets to prove a commission if a brokers fee is shown on the agreement ?

I attacked without sight of the underwriters sheet and alleged a secret commission was part my transaction , on the grounds that the broker was independant and would need to be paid for his work in regard to the loan recieved,

My agreement does not state a fee was paid to my broker , it states brokers involved , but no fees , so can safely say I never paid the broker

SO WHO DID?

This new document proves without doubt I was barking up the right tree, and after viewing this document can see the broker will of recieved a 2nd commission from the sale of the ppi policy , 60% in total ,

I believe this document should be the final piece of the jigsaw and is dynomite if used correctly

looks like a enjoyable weekend constructing another (un-answerable) letter to our friends, not sure if best to quote a few points and see the response , as I think if any form of concealment of these facts , when you have first hand proof straight from the horses mouth , is fraudulent misrepresentation , making the agreement voidable (Rescind) = same results as a secret commission = voidable (Rescind)

It will stop the lenders in they tracks once a notice to rescind is sent stating as such, been there done it , can safely say it works

just need to stop answering correspondance giving them further opportunities to wriggle out of the allegations with lame reasons for certain aspects,

will update response from G E

Yeah great piece of info and helps greatly with secret commission ,

And explains why some agreements show no brokers fees , because the secret commission are worth more then the standard 10% of net loan

upto 45% of PPI policy in commission + 15% of Premium

5.5% commission of the net advance plus fees

bang to rights

how can it be denied?

Another great section in this internal use document ,

WE WILL WRITE TO YOU ON A MONTHLY BASIS DETAILING ANY CASES THAT HAVE CANCELLED,REQUESTING THE REIMBURSEMENT

BROKERS COMMISSION WILL BE CLAWED BACK

PLEASE CONTACT YOUR BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT MANAGER FOR INFORMATION ON THE COMMISSION STRUCTURE

conflict of interest is a very likely possibility after reading the above,a commission will be discussed before any agreements or policies are signed or agreeded,

Naughty , Naughty

Thanks for all the replies to our thoughts , but arguements about mistakes when not to a term of the contract is a pointless avenue , if this is your fight/arguement you need precedents to back you up , or you will be eaten in court ,

To be truthful I have not really been on the forum for a good while , but continued my fight against my lenders , my posts never seem to comand the replies or usefull advise we sought, we sought to attack the lenders from outside the box , we went on different points and attacked from OP's for stating such things , well our fight is very much over , we still do not command attention to our posts , so will bow out gracefully

I wish you's all the best of luck in the future , were they is a will ,.........

if brokers fee is stated on agreement then you will need to seek the underwriters sheet, to prove a commission was paid , if no fees stated that points to a secret commission , as if you have not paid brokers fees , who has? and was the commission bigger then the brokers fees , hence no need for fees , it can only be a good thing no fees displayed, as its only 1 of the 2 people involved in the transaction who needs to pay the broker in some form of way, if not you , then they is only the lenders left who could of possibly paided the broker,

proof of secret commission without the need of underwriters sheet,

How to prove a secret commission without an underwriters sheet ,

Are you struggling to prove they is a secret commission tainting your agreement which if proven is classed as a fraudlent element making the agreement voidable?

Please look on your credit agreement , next to brokers name does it contain a figure ? if it does not state a figure , then you have not paid for the brokers services and proves that a secret commission was part of your transaction , which is deemed to be a fraudulant element which gives the principal the legal right to rescinder the contract

You do not need to request the underwriters sheet to prove your allegations , as the onus will be placed with the lender , and I find it hard to see how the lenders could explain that they did not pay a commission to the broker if the principal had not paid for these services as stated on the agreement , just a brokers name is a tell tale sign that the agreement has a fraudulant element which renders the agreement rescinded, void,terminated, unenforcable,

I know my take on things are different to others and have been told off a few times regarding my thoughts and approach to things , but if one way does not work then we must try another approach to acheive our objectives which is for me to part company with G E as I am not comfy or happy to continue this relationship which is built on fraud and deciet with a sole purpose to possess the property to maximumise profits , as no other reason to conduct business the way their do to seek unjust enrichment

where they is a will there is a way , hope you find yours and continue the fight

best wishes all

Hiya - my only thought at the mo is : can you rescind a contract that has been sold to a third party?? ie dont GE and all their kind sell their assets on into securitisation etc? would that make any difference?

I believe that the 3rd party would also be buying they liabilities , correct me if I am wrong ,

Thanks Maybelline

Hi Folks

Well back again , but this time with some good news , I have been reading some old threads and these just seem to stop like this one ,

I was hopeing to hear of loads of victories and progress regarding this secret commission business

Would be great to hear how all are getting on , but will take some time to catch up on some threads,

Well hear is our great news which I hope will inspire others to continue the fight, We have now officially parted company with G E Money and rescinded the contract , in doing so we have removed the threat of repossession and their legal right to enforce the agreement ,

We have tested the strength of our arguements and informed our good friends we will be making no more payments or committing any acts which affirm the contract , we understand we can not recover any losses ,once we are aware of our rights to rescind the contract , so please accept that no payments is a rejection of the contract and that I am making you aware of my legal right to void this agreement

We are now in our 10th week after informing them of the above , we have not made any payments in this time , our friends are staying quiet, we have sent a second letter over a week ago , which I kindly informed them , that now the agreement is rescinded due to fraud , any loss sustained will be sought in damages,

As both lenders have suspended possession orders , if main lender take possession of my home I will seek the equity lost, which will be over £100,000 + (the difference in what my home is worth , to the amount owed on 1st charge)

As the unlawfull payments have played a part in current situation with main lender,

My plan seems to be working fine , but need a few thoughts on this , should I start a money claim for the total amount of payments made ? I state the agreement is rescinded, I am entitled to what I have paid out to G E Money

Also I have stated I will tender back the amount received, they still will not acknowledge ,

I have tried to find the protocol the lenders should adhere to , I came across the TILA (Truth In Lending Act) but believe this is U.S Law, it states lenders have 20 days from notice to rescind , to acknowledge , remove security interest , return monies paid ,

If not adhered to then , the agreement is still rescinded (void) security interest is still removed, monies and interest still owed, but obligation to pay back the principal amount is no longer a requirement ,

I have searched for the uk version / Acts , which would cover this , plus I read in earlier posts , that the principal amount would be gifted, is the precidented?

any thoughts on this will be appreciated ,

hope all are well , look forward to your replies , and if PT is about will be great to hear your thoughts on this

best wishes

fought to avoid court ? do you have your own thread as we are travelling down the same road and any advice or updates would be nice as you seem ahead of me , thanks in advance

Evening all

 

Apologies for the delay, yes I did start my own proceedings against them. They fought to avoid the Court but the DJ has set the matter down for a hearing!!

 

Best wishes to all

 

Douga

Good point

Hi , did you start the proceedings yourself ? I too are about to start proceedings against G E , very interested in your thoughts , will look for your thread , best of luck in the coming months.

So are they allowed to charge interest on the outstanding arrears , if in a repayment plan with lenders in place to reduce arrears, monthly interest charged / double the monthly contracual payment

Hey , thanks Homer , just looking over FOS website , I have a copy of your Underwriters sheet from way back , my case stopped in August due to the loophole I referred to , I am ready to go again at these , how did you get on with your case ? need to refreshen up on all this , thanks again

best wishes

Michelle if it is an industry standard as others have said and they have refused to give it under the 31.16........ you say Eversheds denied its exsistance? doo yu have that in writing? if so go to the OFT, Trading Standards, the council of mortgage lenders......... esp if oyu have written confirmation they have made that claim.......

 

if it is an industry standard then the industry will react...

They stated this in Court in front of a Judge , obviously I had a letter from G E why they refused as did not contain sensitive data , hard nut to crack

PT , Eversheds totally deined an underwriters sheet exists, I understand fine well that it does , G E refused this in correspondence saying it never contain sensitive information hence not forwarding after 3.16 / 3.14 requests ,

So decided to go this way around things , tried all the protocol's , got me no where fast ,

thanks for your thoughts PT ,

No chance at all, if you do not believe me read the threads , They will not even admit to the Courts that there is underwriters sheet

Seen and heard it first hand

PT is there a way of obtaining the underwriting sheet if it is refused - prior to commencing the claim?

 

I have tried to obtain one but it has been refused. I do have, however, copies of docs showing commisions paid. both from the broker and the OC. is that enough?

Thanks Andrew but already have read it , have read till the cows come home ,

Also look at Imageview vs Kelvin Jack

You have Your view's PT , I have mine , so to say its outrageous, nonsense to suggest otherwise , I do not normally bite at things , but have you been on this side the coin , I have just finished a 12 month battle with them , and believe me when I say , You get nowhere fast playing by the rules , done it tried it got nowhere fast (hence restarting the fight )

do you think I was just going to march off to Court , and lodge a claim ,

I have all the evidence I need my friend , and as the onus on them to prove otherwise , lets see if underwriters sheets are produced this time round

Why do you think , so many threads just stop without further updates , not because we are all winners , I can tell You

but Hey its my neck on the line , and I would rather risk this then stick with G E Money , have tried the standard way , never worked , it is plain as day that I never paid a commission ,

So who did ?

that is outrageous,

 

you cant go ramping off to court on this basis, it is nonsense to suggest otherwise

 

you need to know the quantum of the Claim and you need to know the extent of the commission so that you can ascertain if there are any statutory breaches of inter alia the Consumer Credit Act 1974. IF the commission is not properly set out on the agreement and the agreement is regulated, then you may well have enforcability issues arising out of the commission as a comms is a charge for credit in most circumstances.

 

Plus you need the underwriting sheet to be able to plead properly,

 

if you do and you go to court on the basis of a poor case then you are in trouble

 

and furthermore what about the rule in Henderson v Henderson??? how do you over come this?

 

you must have your facts first