She's an only child and he as a brother and sister.

He has no will and we have done a check on this to find out if he had left one and nothing has come up. He has savings of around 28k

His sister and brother are well off so 28k is nothing to them and aren't interested in his money.

This just leaves my wife/his daughter. Would this still need to go to probate there is no estate e.g house or business to sell and the amount left in his bank is just small?

When his wife died they just closed her bank account and moved her money across to his account and we just assumed that once my wife has handed in the death certificate and shown evidence of who she is the same would apply to her?

We don't know yet the council have only just written to us today with a guide of what to do next.

Hi

Sorry I probably wasn't clear enough.

He had lived in the flat until December 2022 with Dementia by this time it was unsafe for him to have capacity to live on his own and he had to move into a nursing home. We had left it too late to apply for power of attorney so approached a solicitor in March last year for Deputyship.

We were still in the process of dealing with it by May 2024. He passed away a few weeks ago and the solicitor was contacted to halt the application and we will just pay the fees of what work he has done up until now.

My wife was the named person on her dads bank account but we didn't have the ability to alter any direct debits hence the reasons for applying for Deputyship as we were having problems trying to stop some payments coming out of his account Eon being another difficult company.

We kept his flat on from December 2022 - August 2023. it was at this point I contacted Sancutary housing to inform them he was no longer living in the flat, it had been cleared out and was ready for a new tenant and that he had Dementia and had moved into a nursing home December 2022 and explained the reasons why we kept it on.

As the named person to speak on his behalf I asked them what proof they needed in order to give notice on the flat e.g proof of dementia and proof that he was living in a nursing home and anything else they wanted.

The lady in the upstairs flat and some of the other residence in the street had asked about him and we had told them he had moved into a nursing home. The lady in the upstairs flat wanted his flat for medical reasons so asked us once we had given notice could be let her know and she'll ask them if she can have it. We explained the difficulties and it was left at that but I did tell her I would let her know once notice was given.

I contacted the company by email a number of times and also telephone conversations and nobody followed it up and it wasn't till the end of February this year that the housing manager for the area wrote to our home address to ask about him that he had been to the flat a couple of times and nobody answered and he had asked some of the residence in the street and they hadn't seen him for sometime.

There was an email address on the letter I contacted him and copied in the last 2 emails I sent Sanctuary regarding me wanting to give notice on the flat for at least 9 months explaining that it went ignored as well as telephone calls.

I also stated I wanted to have his rent payments returned from the date I wanted to give notice which was from August 2023 as the bank wouldn't let us stop the DD without POT or deputyship explaining we were in the process of Deputyship.

He gave some excuse about not having POT to cancel on his behalf and spoke to someone in HR and said he would contact the nursing home to confirm he was there with Dementia and if it all checks out we can give notice on the flat which came to an end on the 22 March 2024. There was not mention of back payments for the rent already paid or the fact I had asked to give notice in August 2023.

Despite someone living in the flat from 1st April they continue to take DD payments for the flat and have taken another 2 payments of £501.

another concerning thing despite Eon not allowing us to cancel the DD to his account the lady upstairs informed Eon that she was moving into the flat February 2024 and Eon refunding the account to his bank and said in an email sorry you are leaving us and cancelled his account. Something they wouldn't let us do but a stranger.

She also changed her bank account to his address despite the fact notice hadn't been given on the flat yet. So we need to find out how much information Sanctuary actually had for her to tell her power company she was moving into the flat in February despite the housing manager only just getting in contact to find out where he was.

a complaint is going into Eon and Sanctuary and we are going to take advice and ask the bank to charge back the rent. My wife hasn't taken the death certificate to the bank yet to inform them of his passing.

My wife is the named person to his bank account with him having Dementia being his daughter (I say named person she still is but he recently passed away and the deputyship application has now being stopped by the solicitor as it's no longer needed) We've only just got the Death Certificate so the bank will be the next step informing them.

She went to the bank and explained the situation but even being his named person the bank said she didn't have the power to stop DD without any legal documents (virgin money) was the bank.

She could have copies of bank statements that was about it.

JK:

Yeah That's correct. We left rent payment coming out of his bank account from January 2023 - August 2023 until we could find somewhere to sort out his belongings which was fine.

I tried to give notice a few times from August 2023 asking for advice from Sanctuary housing how we went about this explaining his condition and that he was in a Nursing home from December 2022.

I explained we don't have any legal powers to his account like POT but were in the process of going for Deputyship and that I was the named person to act on his behalf to speak with Santuary housing.

I said we could provide details of his condition and proof he was now in a nursing home with date he moved in.

This went ignored despite repeated attempts to contact them until a housing manager contacted us end of February 2024 and notice was finally accepted with his tenancy coming to an end March 22 2024.

Although they have continued to take rental payments for the flat despite someone else living in it from the 1st April.

I wasn't aware payments were still being taken till I checked his May banks statements.

I had asked them to back date rental payments to August 2023 when I gave notice rather than just giving notice in March 2024 but they've ignored that bit. I don't see why they shouldn't give it back they've taken money they shouldn't have.

Thanks DX,

I wasn't aware we could do that for that length of time. I'll ask my wife to check with the bank this week

I contacted Sanctury housing in August 2023 after informing them my father in law who had Dementia had moved into a Nursing home December 2022. We kept the flat for 8 months until such a time we could accomodate some of his furniture that my wife wanted to keep.

I contacted them in August 2023 to let them know the situation by email as I was the named person that could speak on his behalf. I informed them that we had left it to late for POT and were seeing a solicitor for Deputyship of his financies.

I asked them what information would they need in order to give notice on the flat and we could provide details of his condition and nursing home.

This went ignored I left it a month and then called them October 2023. I was promised a call back from a manager over the next few days. This never happened and it was end of November when I contacted them again and they had no record of me calling them. I explained the email and again I was told the local manager to the area would call me. This never happened and I ended up emailing them in January 2024 with a copy of the email from August.

Again this went ignored and I had explained to them that we couldn't just go to the bank and stop the DD as we had tried. This email again went ignored.

I then had a letter written to our home address in February asking us to get in contact with them (local manager) as they were concerend nobody was living in the flat. He had an email address so I copied in the last 2 emails to say I had been trying to give notice since August 2023. I also stated that I would like the rent that was paid from August 2023 refunded back to his account as I had officially tried to give notice then and it went ignored.

He replied to us about wanting to look at the flat then notice could be given once he had contacted the nursing home to confirm he was actually living there now. Notice was giving for the 22 March 2024 and this would be when rent would stop and no further payment would be taken by this point. The fact I asked to be back dated went ignored.

I have since noticed on 2 banks statement for April and May that they are still taking Rent payments of £501 from his bank.

Further to this which seems very strange. He was with Eon Next for his utility bill again we were having problems getting this stopped as they needed a named person on his account which there wasn't one despite me managing his online account for him.

I didn't check the email address that often that I used to set it up and went to check as noticed the credit he had built up with not living there was all getting refunded in February. The email said £600 would be refunded to his account with a (sorry you are leaving us message) but how can he leave as nobody but himself had access to speak with them.

I also noticed the lady in the flat above him had a letter from her bank sent to his address with his address details but his name which was dated 4th March well before we had given notice and it said (thank you for giving us your new address details) we have set all this up for your account.

So Sanctuary housing must have been aware he wasn't living there from the ignored emails for the lady above to start changing address details to move into his flat before the housing manager had even got in contact to ask if anyone was living there.

What I basically want to know his do we have any legal standing to claim the rent back from when I first contacted them in August 2023? There is roughly £3000 to come back

I had to deal with these last year worst DCA I have ever dealt with.

Just wait for the constant threats of CCJ and how you'll lose in court and how they won't do mediation and they want the judge to question you with a load of "BIG" words to boot with the letter.

My case was struck out in the end, stupidity on their part as I admitted to owing the debt in the end going through the court process was just a formality as they wouldn't let it drop despite me admitting the debt regardless. They didn't send the last part of the court paper work in so it ended up being struck out

.

Just to update this further.

I've had further contact from TM legal offering me a 50% discount and blah blah about having all the evidence they need to overturn by defence in court if it were to proceed etc.

I'm not too fussed about that as I offered them a payment plan and a tomlin order and they ignored them so whatever.

I've noticed looking at the recent amount they've added on the court costs to the amount owed despite the order getting struck out on their part. Can they do this? it adds around another £400 or so onto the amount owed

What are the next steps now they could possible do?

I've not heard anything from them for months, they never followed it through with court.

Perhaps the process of getting it struck out might trigger something. Of course I know the ball is in their court I won't be making any contact.

Seems odd from all the hot air of threats to CCJ's to me offering a payment plan to nothing.

Further update on this case.

I thought I better check the MCOL site as it's been a while since I last looked, They updated the case yesterday and it says "the case was struck out on the 18/1/24"

Can they persue through the courts again at a later date if they wanted to?

I've just seen that it says Claimant but then skipped to the bottom where the order was made and panicked that the Court Clerks hadn't updated my DQ because on the Mcol site it's dated the 18/10 still and not the amended version I sent on the 30/10. I then looked up what the General Sanctions order was and found a few posts about it and thought a hearing had gone ahead without me for the debt.

I totally misread "Claimant" as myself.

I looked back at the emails TML sent me as they copied in the CCBC to say please see attached DQ/N180 to find looking at the email now there was no attachement from them. I did however get a copy of their DQ in the mail. So I don't know what has happend at their end then? I know it was Stayed for about a month or so before they lifted it.

What happens next will they have to pay a fee to get this lifted again? or will the whole court process have to be started again?

@updated.

I was sent my directions questionnaire back to me because I had accidentally put a (1) instead of an (i) in the case number. It was lost for a week as it went to a street with a similar name to my own with the same house number. The couple had been away for a week and gave it to me when they got back.

I sent the corrected document back to this address as the letter stated I could do this ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk I got an automated response back as acknowledgment. This was on the 30/10

I have got a letter from the courts today dated 3/11/23 saying I have failed to file the directions questionnaire to the CCBC by the specified date. There was no date to return the letter by in the letter they sent me.

It then stated

IT IS ORDERED THAT:-

the claiment must file the DQ with the CCBC on or before 7 days from the service of this order with the CNBC if the claiment does not comply it will be struck out.

it tells me I can email it again to CCBC email address it also says I can post it to NH court adress provided via a document exchange DX 702885 what even does that mean?

but then underneath the letter it states.

This order has been been made without a hearing under the courts cae management powers contained in the civil procedure rules part 3

this notice is seved pursuant to paragraph 26.3(7A)(a) & (b) of part 26 of the civil procedure rules the parties have a right to apply to have the order set aside, varied or stayed

a party making such application must file the application with the CCBC (with fee) with in 7 days of this order.

When I login to the MCOL it says :-  General Sanctions Order was given 3/11/2023

What does that mean?

Just wanted to put this out there for anyone who happens to come across this thread and company

- This was a recent threatening email I got from them, we are already going through court but these monsters happen to be the most vicious ones I've come across when it comes to threatening emails, so god knows what they would be like to talk to in person.

It's all hot air for anyone reading this, I wouldn't want anyone worry over crap like this that is going through this for the first time.

You'd have thought I was on trail for murder the way they have written it.

We write further to the above matter.

As you have filed a Defence to this Claim the Court will now issue Directions Questionnaires to both parties in preparation for a Trial to determine the outcome of this claim. Our client has already incurred significant costs in bringing this claim against you and further costs will be incurred should the matter proceed further as we shall need to prepare our clients evidence as well as prepare for and arrange attendance at Trial. 

Please be advised that we intend to apply for all costs incurred from you in addition to the amount already claimed against you, in accordance with CPR 27.14(2)(g). Said application will be made on the grounds of ‘unreasonable conduct’ in that you have brought a frivolous and vexatious defence before the Court, which has no merit.

Our costs, a statement of which will be provided prior to Trial, may amount to a sum in excess of £1,000 plus VAT at the prevailing rate together with any disbursements incurred for attendance of our advocate at the hearing.

To avoid these additional costs, and without concession to the legitimacy of our clients claim against you, we have been instructed to offer you the chance to settle the matter in order to bring these proceedings to an early conclusion and to avoid the matter proceeding to Trial where a County Court Judgment may be entered against you. 

 Our client will accept a lump sum payment of £2,619.20, representing 70% of the current outstanding balance, in full and final settlement of this debt.

For those seeing this if I had over 2k in my bank I wouldn't be in debt in the first place and they've turned down multiple offers of a payment plan and it was on their terms and they've ignored them or even counter offered. Jokers this company love to take people to court.

I dont understand

the DCA supplied all the correct paper work. notice of assignment, DN and contract,

I asked for a tomlison order and an offer of £10 they refused and sent me an expenditure form.

I filled this out and raised the offer of £20 and they asked me to call them which I asked to do it all in writing and they ignored me and continued with the court application.

This is where we are at now.

How can I not admit the debt when I have to the DCA by offer of monthly payments?

RE - Jury, I was being sarcastic about the DCA wanting it to attend court so I can be cross examined.

I'm not sure why they are persistent in wanting it to go to court considering I have admitted I owe the debt and even offered a starting point to a payment plan.

I know from past experience the judge will ask me if I owe the debt or not and do I want to contest it. in this case it will be a yes I owe the debt. The only difference between the last case and this one. Overdales accepted a post payment plan despite the court giving me 2 weeks to pay all the money.

TMI on the other hand - they appear to want push all the way to a CCJ which I think they'll get and the judge will do the usual pay in 2 weeks and TMI will just get bailiffs involved they don't seem interested in a payment plan.

How does it work when there is a CCJ and it goes like this. Are these the same high court bailiffs you see on TV that can break in to take goods or are these the kind you can ignore?

No problem, will get that filled in tomorrow and sent off, not much really to fill in with this one.

I got an email copy from TMI today.

They've ticked "no" to mediation

&

"no to a hearing it without a hearing"

Reasons - The Claimant respectfully submits that the matter is not suitable to be determined on paper due to the contents of the defence and the need for a cross-examination of the Defendant.

Sounds like they want a crown court hearing and Jury lol. These have to be the worst debt company I have dealt with. one minute sending me letters saying we are here to help and the next sending threatening CCJ letters.

Not sure what contents of the defence they think I need to be cross examined on.

I filled out the LBA at the end of the 30 days requesting more information by way of CCA request.

They sent me this information about a week later but had already applied to the court 2 days after the 30 days had ended.

They hadn't given enough time for the information to get to me before applying for court so there was no room once the information was supplied to enter into a payment plan. At this point I filed my defence,

in between this happening I asked for a tomlin order with a £10 initial offer and they refused sending me a link to fill out their expenditure form.

I did this upping my offer to £20 a month with a plan to review future payments if my circumstances got better.

They replied to that asking me to call them.

I emailed them back stating I have done everything they asked me to do and would like everything done in writing to discuss further.

They ignored the email and I haven't heard anything for months until this letter turned up.

So hear we go

I got a letter today for the small claims track. N149A form & N180 form

I'll get it sent in next week. So it looks like they want to go ahead which is fine. I'll tick the box for Mediation and ask for my local court.

This should be a faster case than my last one.

They've supplied me with all the paper work I asked for in the CCA request and I have even offered a payment plan and filled out a income & outcome form out and they ignored that and asked me to call them.

I emailed them back asking for it all be done in writing as so far I have complied with everything they have asked of me in terms of coming to an agreement and you've ignored my offer of payment upping it from £10 to £20 a month after filling the expenditure form out.

This is where it all ended.

if we do which I suspect we will end up in court I won't need to submit mounds of evidence like last time.

My defence this time will be lack of communication and an unwillingness to avoid court be not accepting any kind of payment offer

DX100 just to refer back to post #61

that post was from an email I got from TM legal I was copied in to ccbc justice.gov email address stating to them that they still wanted to go ahead with the court hearing. This was on the 30 June. I've heard nothing since and my defence was submitted on the 1st June. with the time lapsed like this would that be correct then it is now "stayed" I wasn't sure if there was a cut off point or not once the process was started off this far as to submitted defence statements?

Andy - I can't remember from my last one. once I submit my defence to the court, they of course need to submit one as well? I know the court told me they would send them a copy of the defence I sent in but 30 days passed from this point to them telling the courts they wanted to proceed still but it's all gone cold now we haven't even got to the point of getting letters asking for mediation yet and dates needing to be set for that.

What is the waiting time for court?

I've checked the Mcol site and this was the last entry

Further update to my last post, As I said I went from offering them £10 a month to start with and they rejected that offer but asked me to fill in an affordability assessment which I did and I increased the payment to £20 a month there was room for £30 However They wrote and email to me asking me to phone them and no mention of the assessment I filled out or the £20 offer a month. again I stated that this could be looked into again in the future it might mean I can increase payments.

I also said to them I don't understand what they would want to talk to me about on the phone and that I would prefer communication via post or email and that I had done what they asked me to do but not yet responded to that. I've heard nothing for nearly a month till tonight.

I was copied into this email to the courts stating this and they have completly ignored the fact I filled out an assessment form and never bothered to react to that. I guess we are pushing ahead for mediation and probably onwards for a court hearing as I've no doubt they'll accept any payment plan other than in 3 installments despite saying contact them if I wish to set up a payment plan

Dear sirs

We write with regards to the above matter and confirm we act on behalf of the Claimant.

We confirm that the Claimant intends to proceed with the matter.

the Defendant has been copied into this email.

Kind regards

Litigation Department

TM Legal

I offered them £20 and filled out the I&E form as there wasnt anything to lose in doing that. I've probably got room to go upto £30

Yeah I brushed off most of that email to be honest I wasn't scared, Having already experienced court once for a Debt it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. First judge seemed nice enough, 2nd one well as you said already judge lottery he couldn't be bothered that 2nd one I was the last case of the day he'd probably had enough by the time I got to him.

I got a further response back to my I&E form plus the offer of £20 a month I offered. They wan't me to call them, even though I stated from their own website that communication be either phone or email and I selected email. So I won't be calling them. I'll email them back later just reminding them that I have complied with what they have asked and let them know that I want all communication in writing.

I'll be in a better position come November next year as I'll free up nearly £200 a month towards my debt payments as I've been paying off a CSA debt for the last 6 years and it will be all cleared by then. It's one debt where the CSA actually messed up themselves and nothing to do with me. Still had to pay it back though.

In another 2 years time when my daughter starts high school I'll free up about another £250 a month from afterschool club fees so £450 a month to help clear these debts off

Hi guys back with an update from TM legal. This is there response to the Tomlin order I requested and offer of £10 a month.

We write regarding the above.

Thank you for your recent email whereby you have proposed an offer of repayment for £10.00 per month by way of a Tomlin Order. Unfortunately, due to the balance outstanding and the amount offered, our client would not be willing to agree to a Tomlin Order.

It has since been noted that you have recently filed a Defence to our County Court Claim, a response to which will be sent in due course. We may be instructed to continue with the claim and oppose your filed Defence.

Moreover, we would also point out that the Defence filed is in a format that is circulated on consumer-based websites whereby Defendants are encouraged to use this template in order to avoid repayment of their debts. You will note in your defence that it is alleged you are still awaiting copies of documents requested, an email response was sent to the email address ‘g.co.uk’ on 31/05/2023 with an attached document containing the requested documents.

This letter has also been further referenced in your email regarding a Tomlin Order.

Whilst we appreciate this may not be suitable for your circumstances, we have been instructed by our client to offer an arrangement across four months which would prevent judgment being requested. If you feel this would be affordable you may contact our office to enter this arrangement on 01253 531 061 as a matter of urgency.

If this would not be affordable for you, we’d like to ask you to complete an income and expenditure form to gain a better insight into your current affordability. You can complete the form online at https://tm-legalservices.uk/budget-form or you can also call our office to go through your income and outgoings with one of our Case Managers.

We ask that you complete the Income and Expenditure form by the 15 June 2023.

If we fail to hear from you further, we could be instructed to continue to trial, where Judgment may be granted against you and costs may be awarded in a sum up to £900.00.

Thanks Andy/DX

I've emailed the company asking them if they'll agree to the tomlin order and a payment plan. I'll wait to see if I get a reply later on and if not file my defence tonight

Do I ask them in the email if they will agree to a  tomlison agreement and stay the matter with court?  or not mention that and just say  in the email - in light of the recent return of the CPR 31.14 information I with to enter into a monthly agreement for such amount (low offer of course to start with)

I'm a little worried as I put to fully defend the claim on the Mcol site and done nothing more with it at the moment I need to file something by 4pm Friday this week

So should I give them a call and ask them if they'll do this?

Ok so this is a new one.

For a Tomlin order what do I need to fill out and do I submit this on the mcol site in place of my defence or do I email this direct to the company?

I need to submit my defence by Friday 4pm