Hi. Thanks for your reply, You say it is not going to court but as mentioned above, their letter suggests it may.

Whilst I agree completely with what you say about him not having a ticket for that part of the journey, I am confused as there is no mention of a penalty in the letter. So whilst the fare mentioned is fair enough, how can they charge this for an administration fee?

On 27th August, my son aged 17 and some friends travelled to Brighton for a concert gig. They got on at Upminster and he paid on his Oyster to London Bridge and then a seperate ticket to Brighton. The concert over ran and they missed the last train home that night. Not wanting to be stuck in Brighton for nearly 6 hours with no where to stay, they were told by the bus driver that they could get a bus to one of the London airports then wait for the next train to run and go back on several trains. This meant he had to buy a bus fare back to London (which took all his money) and then use what he had left on his Oyster to get home. The trouble is he had to get to Laindon which is out of the Zones and his Oyster had covered him to West Ham. Eventually at abour 6:45 the next day he called me to pick him up after travelling nearly 6 hours to get home.

An inspector stopped and asked for his ticket for which he explained what had happened and that he had paid all the way to West Ham but ran out of money to get the last leg of the journey as he had to pay for the bus. My son showed him the ticket for the previous part of the journey to prove his story. He took his details and statement.

Today 8th October, I get a letter saying that" he was travelling between the two stations without paying the correct fare. That Non payment ofrail fares is an ofence which may be prosecuted in a Youh Court. In order that I may close the report from our inspector, I request that the fare of £6.40 and an administrative fee should now be paid.

Payment should be for £51.40 which represents a £45.00 administration fee and £6.40 for the outstandign fare".

I acknowledge that this statement is correct in that he did not have a fare for the last part of the journey. Could someone please advise me if they are obliged to supply a copy of their report? This seems excessive considering the fare. Do I have any rights to challenge this?

Any help please much appreciated.

First you SAR newlyn and specifically request

screenshot. Then if it states the name given, you

complete a form 4. Once you have it in writing who

actually attended the paperwork won't match up.

You have them!!!

Tomtubby is your person, she knows this company well.

Sorry to hijack - tomtubby, please contact me. (kim)

Can anyone tell me how to use photobucket please, so I can put mu agreement on here.

Thanks.

Thanks for all your advice. Will wait and see what happens.

Sorry forgot to add. Train was great western (first) I think. From shenfield to billericay.

No, the whole situation was he had feet on seat as described. He said 2 men who may have been policemen were walking through carriage. Asked if they could have a word, asked where he was getting off and when he said next stop, they said right we better make this quick then. said he was not being arrested but then took a statement about why his feet were on the seat and did he admit it. He said they mentioned cautioning and when I asked him if they used the words in italic he said something like that. (typical teenager)

they then asked him to put his name and address and date of birth down.

My son said they looked a bit like policemen but couldn't be sure if they were. They dressed a bit like them. To be honest never had any dealings so he wasn't sure who they worked for. He actually thought it was train staff as it was on the train.

I'm going to leave this in the capable hands of OC. BUT I have to say from the OPs info it seems very over the top to me. I appreciate that we are talking about the OP's son and she is obviously going to protect him BUT I do feel there must be more to this as stated in my post #2.

I can assure you, this is all that has happened. Whilst of course I will protect my son, I will also be the first to say when he is wrong and I told him this. However I am flabergasted that this was all over his foot on the seat! That is why I am so intrigued as to where this can/ will go. I also feel that they should have asked if a parent was nearby as he was approaching his stop and this should have been conducted in front of them. Instead he felt like he wasn't really sure what was going on. They obviously didn't want to get off the train as he said I will hurry up then if the next stop is yours. My son thought this was to do with his ticket and offered it to show even though it was not.

I will have to ask him later if those exact words were used. However I tend to think they were as he used the word caution from them and explained what you have written about making a statement and Reading it back to him and getting him to sign it.

His words were the policeman sat next to me and did say I am not arresting you.

He said they were cautioning him and took a statement and asked if they wanted to them to write anything down in his defense. He was shocked and just said no. They wrote it all out and then gave him a small piece of paper to write his name and address and date of birth. He filled this in, but only after they had taken the statement. Maybe they thought he was older as he does look older, but surely they should have asked his age first if this is the case.

What could happen now?

I agree completely, and he has been taught not to do this. However a teenager not thinking on an empty train! When they asked him why he had his feet on the seat he said I was just relaxing and stretched my feet out. There was no damage. The officer said to him we spend a lot of money on seats, and fair do, but whatever happened to just talking to him. They asked him are you denying it, he said no. Then asked him are you going to argue, he said noHeir is a really good kid, and he is worried sick now what they will do. I think this is Well over reacted. He should not be made to feel a criminal. Can they caution a 16year old on their own?

My son was travelling on a first train with headphones on and Reading a paper and had his feet on the seat. He was approached and cautioned and a statement taken. He was then asked to fill in all his personal details and said they would write. He got a bit worried as in his eyes all he did was put his feet on the seat, and admitted this.

My concern is, my son is 16 and can they caution a 16 year old with no adult there and what are they likely to do next?

He is worried that they may give a fine and obviously he can't pay it.

Thanks

Honeysuckle

 

I'm really sorry to be the bearer of bad news but would you please, consider contacting the council and getting them to send you a statement showing this account is now clear?

 

My bitter experience is that even if you pay the council direct, the council pay the bailiffs their fees first and leave you with an outstanding balance.

 

I have gone as far as to lodge a form 4 complaint against the bailiff, it failed. and the judge decided the bailiff did nothing wrong, and the council have contacted me asking for £500+ that just happens to be the amount the bailiffs have charged me for council tax arrears.

I have asked the council to show me the act that allows them to do this and they have chosen not to.

I know I have the option of taking this to the ombusman but TBH I've had enough!!!!

I hope yours turns out ok

 

Cas

This is the main problem with the system. Not enough judges seem to understand this process. Putting in a form 4 complaint is usually the last resort and most people are at the end of their tether and nobody has listened. When the action is dismissed it is very easy to feel totally frustrated at the system. Also I have found the entire process is so long winded. I have had to wait 6 months for my court date for form 4 complaint to be heard. The council have refused point blank to take the account back or listen to my reasons and have therefore had no choice but to issue a Reg 46 against the council just to be heard!

This could have all been avoided if someone had taken thetime to look into my concerns!

I have been guided by Tomtubby throughout these actions, as the situation went from bad to worse. I now have two court dates in November to get to the bottom and hopefully finalise 6 months of pure hell I have been through. Have complained to chief exec of council, bailiff company, ministry of justice, local government ombudsman and MP. So have exhausted all avenues.

I'm afraid I am having to go the whole way with my complaint. Form 4 for bailiff and reg 46 for council. They refuse to accept I am right and the council are supporting them. So to prove I am being overcharged I have no choice but to take legal action.

I sent in for a SAR and on the 40th day got back my current years council tax screenshot and that's it. Needless to say I am now pursuing the other 5 years they forgot. Maybe they didn't have an envelope big enough.lol, or didn't want to pay all that postage!

Although my case is not the same as yours, I have encountered the same problems. I am now taking them to court under Regulation 46, Aggrieved by a levy. It is this hard nosed attitude that has forced me to take it this far. Not once have they contacted me to come and talk to them and discuss the issue, instead they have taken the side of their appointed bailiff company every time.

You're sorted then - should he return today make it very clear that you are not letting him in and keep the doors locked and the windows closed.

 

Notwithstanding any crap he may tell you, he has no right of entry unless allowed to enter "peaceably". Should that courtesy have been extended previously he can then force an entry to get back in later.

 

Someone posted an excellent letter to hand a bailiff through a letterbox stating this point a couple of weeks ago if you search through other posts you will find it.

 

He will know the vehicle is not registered in your name as they check with DVLA.

 

 

Don't take this last sentence as a given fact! In most cases they actually don't check with DVLA and will randomly take nearby cars and then claim the onus is on you to prove it is not your vehicle and not them to prove it is!!!! Watch out for this.

Be interested to see if you get anywhere, natalie. Basildon Council did not listen to my complaint about the assigned bailiff company they sent to me. Instead having to fight them all the way. Be prepared for the same. Pm me if you want, be interesting to share any information.

thomas612 can you PM me the name of the bailiffs if known, as I have dealings with Newlyn! Thanks.

LGO will probably come back with same as me. That you have to follow certain procedures and make sure letters marked accordingly to the right person. They then go on to say that they couldn't comment on a particular case!

Got nowhere really. Shames, seeing the council in court now!

I agree, but this is what they asked for in order to release the details. Even this however, whilst revealing a few things, has not revealed the whole breakdown of fees. Just another delay tactic me thinks!