Carmel Butlers Testimony to the House of Commons – separated JPEGS of each page. Hats off to Scedminc for the original find. Added: House of Commons Cover Sheet http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/cover.jpg List of Evidence (Carmel Butler is #107) http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/listofevidence.jpg --------- http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image1.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image2.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image3.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image4.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image5.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image6.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image7.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image8.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image9.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image10.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image11.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image12.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image13.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image14.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image15.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image16.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image17.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image18.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image19.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image20.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image21.jpg http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/who-knows2/spv/Image22.jpg

DO YOU OWE THE MONEY!!!! This is been mentioned on several threads at the moment and I thought I would try and get it into one. The big day arrives the Claimant has no CA or with no perscribed terms and you are going to use 127(3) of the CCA 1974. The judge turns around and says: Well have you spent the money and do you owe it" Please comment on this as the more ideas the better for the big day. Cheers HAK

can you check to see if a postal order has been cashed?

Its extremely vague-in fact its not convincing at all. I would be asking for a properly itemised breakdown. Looks like you are really going to have to submit draft directions for full disclosure.How you are expected to provide a defence without those things that you need is baffling.Obviously the Court would not have been aware of these circumstances when they made the order.

Might answer your question Credit, debts and related services: Debts and related services: Sale and assignment of a debt "In some cases the sale contract may allow the purchaser to return these accounts and gain a return of the relevant purchase amount."

Hi If you signed the agreement in the creditors premiosses or it was a pre 2004 agreement that was made withaout any face to face contact i am affraid it is entirely possible. Peter

My view on this letter is that Cap One are responding as if you are claiming to be entitled to a copy of your agreement under s77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. They are saying that supplying you with a copy of your agreement will not help you to determine whether you are entitled to a copy of it or not. They are absolutely right that this would be the case in such a situation. However, this is not such a situation. In fact you are threatening to bring a claim under s142 (declaration of the rights of parties) with respect to s127 (whether the agreement is enforceable or not). Or you are threatening to bring some other action, for example a claim for mis-sold payment protection insurance (a misrepresented contract, or a failure of consideration, etc). So you are using CPR 31.16 for standard disclosure of the relevant documents, just as you would in any civil case on any matter, not just an agreement regulated under the CCA 1974. It is important to make this clear to them by writing a follow up letter - otherwise you are more likely to be liable for costs, as you have not acted reasonably in helping to clear up the "misunderstanding" before going ahead and initiating legal proceedings.

Hello lee, Once you have decided you have a sound case for reclaiming and the majority of people have a sound case. Then I always advise a Subject Access Request is submitted. Remember to send the statutory fee of £10.00 1. This shows you want all of the applicable data the bank holds on you as a data subject and that you mean business. 2. It can throw up all sorts of information that the bank has stored away about you but that you are probably not aware of. 3. It enables you to back up your claim for mis-selling in a lot of cases as the banks cannot supply the relevant information, and remember if you are reclaiming ppi as mis-sold it is up to the bank to prove otherwise. 4. Keep at them remember £10.00 fee gives some of their remaining employees something to do for a few hours or even days. aa

:D:D It's not 1 April yet TLD but it sounds very credible, is it true?!!

It will be very interesting indeed when Link receive this. Apparently in the Link offices there's a 30 foot plastic palm tree and whenever they buy a debt where the person named has a property registered on the land registry search the link employee who is assigned that account gets to climb up this palm tree and beat the golden coconut with a wooden banana whilst the rest of the juniors get to try and knock him out the tree with assorted pieces of fruit, the more senior employees drink cherry lambrini, grunt and chatter about free money and short breaks to the Balearics throughout and tirelessley congratulate each other on their business acumen. The ceremony of the golden coconut is usually followed by three days of feasting and merriment and occasionally the employee even gets a shiny bauble or an extra two pounds in their wage packet to encourage other threat monkeys to try the same technique. (I might have made this up but the more I read it the less sure I am). Would love to be there when they find out a guaranteed 600% profit on their purchase might not be quite so guaranteed now.

Yes, but in this case the 'something' was a small plastic bag and he didn't crash (nor even intimated that he possibly might have done) If the OP wants to take it further, he's perfectly welcome to do so. In the meantime he's still got a parking ticket to deal with.

Don't tell them this though - you want them to terminate using the dodgy default, then they're limited to claiming the arrears.

Ha! ha! Just PM'd you saying they would discontinue. Go for wasted costs order. This is costs you can claim for them wasting your time. The Judge was putting pressure on them to come up with some evidence and presumably had raised his or her eyebrows over the alleged phantom payment. So this was their way of telling them to prove it. Excellent work Judge. Whose Watson's? I thought the new name for Cabot's solicitors was Morgan's? Good stuff Poss Vox you stood up to the bully boys. There is some info on CAG re wasted costs orders but I can't find it. Meanwhile this is from the Bar Council http://www.barcouncil.org.uk/guidance/wastedcostsorders/ I am sure someone will come along with more info.

Great! A comedian for the final act!

Because they keep getting the passport applications wrong.

Yeah, I know that and I know legally it has no sway but surely everyone can actually see through it?! Surely! It's just a little frustrating that banks will claim it's goodwill when no organisation with the aim of making profits that are as big as possible would actually dish out millions (from when this all started) unless they had to? I honestly don't believe the banks are sitting there saying: "Hey you know, I'm not sure these charges are fair..." "Oh really, wow. Thats interesting. Go on." "Well, it seems they have to be a fair representation of the cost to us and I'm not sure they are. And look, Vinnystoolbox and others are suffering financial hardship - lets just give them some of this back as a gesture yeah?" "Hmm, do we have to?" "No, we don't have to. It would be nice though wouldn't it?" "You know, it really would. Fetch the cheque book and my good pen; I've some signing to do" And they all lived happily ever after... As a complete aside to this, I hope you don't think I have any beef with you yourbank? I'm aware it may look that way in the other thread but it was never on my agenda.

Just called the tax credit helpline and all you need to do is give them an AVERAGE figure of hours worked...So get a few months and average it out. You can do it over the phone if you wish

I would think a third is a good amount, but if they refuse to accept a full and final settlement you have three options; 1. increase your offer to an amount that they will accept - although if they think there is more money available to you they may hold out until you increase your amount by an unacceptable amount 2. Pay them the amount you have offered them against the debt - I mention this as an option but wouldn't really expect anyone to be happy with it, also, once they get money, it seems to make them more aggressive in their collection activities. 3. Do nothing, keep the money and wait until they do accept your offer.

Yep - it sure is SB - DONT call them!!! Just send them the above letter

I am in the process of putting something together for another claimant with this-Its not finished yet but hopefully will be done over the weekend. This can then go as a stickie in the Business charges forums here.

Well now.. Lexis, whilst I find your letter absolutely brilliant.. .worthy of an award in fact.. the following quote just was too much and I have splurted coffee just about everywhere.. Nice one. :D

Silent Calls:FAQs | Ofcom Not sure if this helps at all

Hello Ash....have a look at these links here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/186319-bloody-hsbc.html#post2006185

Hello Bill! Good to see you have been very busy at CAG since I last checked in. Anyone who has had a charging order on a default judgement should write to their MP if they have not done so already. There is talk of legislation against this too so a flood of letters could give this some impetus. He/she may also be able to give concrete help in some cases. See http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

Regarding the Litigation Friend issue there are procedures to be followed. CPR 21 states: The full CPR can be seen here: PRACTICE DIRECTION – CHILDREN AND PROTECTED PARTIES Your 'friend' needs to complete and file forn N235 which can be found here: The requested resource (/HMCSCourtFinder/tiles/Her Majesty's Courts Service -Forms and Guidance) is not available

They want you to pay something as this would be a tacit admission that you are liable. Keep on hanging in there!

Hi Villagirl, First a suggestion to everyone - never ever agree to a suspended possession order. Once they have conned you into agreeing to a suspended possession order then in effect, they have in PRINCIPLE got the possession order - albeit SUSPENDED. And if there's a suspended order in place - (will stand to be corrected on this point but) - it seems that you may have given up your right to file a full DEFENCE - or at least it will be difficult to go back to filing full a defence. Thus, for them - moving from a suspended order to an actual possession order is too easy for them (as you can see as being attempted to happen to Villagirl) - so do consider very carefully before agreeing to a suspended order. The rule of thumb should be - if they want you to do something like agree to a suspended order - then you can bet your life it's not in your interests to agree! Remember a suspended possession order IS a possession order - it's just suspended. Villagirl, I second Crapstones suggestion which I'm sure you will heed anyway. The answer to your issue lies in the fees and charges that have been dumped on your account. They will need to go back to court to ask for the actual possession order before they can get an evicition order - so you do have a little time. Remember - they will have to go to court to turn the suspended order into a possession order - so unless you have been notified of a hearing date (which it seems you haven't), you have time. Your objective is to prepare to defend yourself in court against them turning the suspended order into a possession order. There can't be an eviction until they have an actual possession order. Therefore, you must fully investigate their accounting and query their accounting so that at the hearing for the possession/evicition order - you can show that they have not complied with the terms of the suspended order and/or that the arrears they allege against you are WRONG . Thus, your account is being overcharged and that you should be given credit on your account for those overcharges. Write a list of all the charges that have been applied to your account so that you can show a judge the excessive fees levied on your account (which will probably be in the thousands). Then you could try argue that you are not obliged at law to pay those excessive fees because they are unenforceable against you due to the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1999 and therefore, these amounts should be credited back to your account (thus reducing the alleged arrears) - see other threads that dicuss this act. In addition it would be great if you too, can show that there are missing payments from your account in Dec 07 - Jan 08 (or any other missing payments) - that will cast doubt on the accuracy of their accounting - and if there is doubt as to whether their alleged arrears figure is correct, then a judge cannot give possession unless they can prove that they have correctly stated the actual true arrears figure. So you show that their arrears figure must be wrong - then the judge cannot give an order for possesion based on their alleged arrears. In short, you must challenged the arrears that they allege you owe - once you have fully gone through each entry on your account - you will see how your account has been abusively charged and that the arrears that they allege against you may be inflated and exaggerated. Good luck - get the statements out - and fully analyse it. Finally, Villagirl, it seems that the clerk you speak to at SPML has got you terrified - yes they are a powerful institution and yes, they are bullies - BUT once you start standing up to a bully you may find that they aren't as terrifying as you first thought. This site will help you stand up to the bully so keep calm and fight back - you can do it.

Dear Sirs, Account Number: XXX Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act. To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement. This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows; As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557. Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are: Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements; And more importantly Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations. You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations. Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557. The regulations state: (2) There may be omitted from any such copy- (a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy; (b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies); It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations. The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso. Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions. It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented. I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues Yours faithfully ---- Courtesy of Rory32. ------- That is to highlight the discrepency in the first letter : Stating : "The 'true' copy requirements can be satisfied by providing a copy agreement at the date the card ..." etc Which are they are in error in quoting . It is partially applicable , obviously need to delete and amend to suit .

Looking through your posts Pussycatdoll, you have to get a set aside due to unlawful charges added to the account. To have your judgement set aside you will need to put forward a reason why. You must keep your reason as clear and simple as possible. If the judgment is set aside, things go back to the start of the claim. You have another chance to reply to the Claim Form, and explain your situation. The CCJ is taken off the County Court Register until a new judgment is made. You need to ask the court for a general application form called an N244. You should fill in the N244 to include the information the court asks for. There is a fee of £35. Meanwhile you need to add up all of the charges going back 6 years and get a figure ready for a defence. Do you already have all of your statements? If not then you will need these for proof and a counterclaim for the charges. You may need to send an S.A.R.(Subject Access Request) for the data they hold on you. There is a letter in the library for you to copy over. If the judgment is set aside by the court, this means that the proceedings go back to the claim stage and any enforcement action is also cancelled. You have a new opportunity to fill in the reply to the claim form, make an offer of payment or put in any defence or counterclaim. Having a judgment set aside does not wipe out the proceedings altogether but the details will be removed from the Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines until a new judgment is made.

OMG!! I read the first page of this thread and laffed so much i nearly cried!! I do some great accents so my friends tell me, so i am off to play with these people a little. Will update with progress report when i can I am thinking of something Borat based "you want my postcode huh? can i make fun in your boom?" oh am i going to have fun with this!!!!! Then i saw another 269 opages and nearly had a heart attack, oh for more time, i don't need tv i just need CAG!!!!!!! Thank god i am 'allegedly' in debt, otherwise i would never have found CAG :D

It's a phenomenally BAD idea to phone ANY dca unless you are extremely confident on the phone. It is VERY easy to be bullied, brow-beaten, intimidated or LIED to. If you are not 100% in control all the way throught the conversation, it can leave you feeling rotten for hours, and I, personally, don't recommend it.

That's about it - you are asking for a true copy of the agreement and the DN - send the AQ recorded delivery to the court - don't bother sending a copy to the other side.

Hi Ok it's practically the same as the letter I received... I sent this back... don't necessarily use every point and seek further advice if you are unsure because I do not think it is perfect by any stretch... Like I said seek further advice if you are unsure but this has already been sent so I will update when I receive a response if you want to hang on and see what happens?

Doesnt matter, because in the next stage (AQs), you demand all of the documents you require in the draft order for directions (if it gets that far)

You could request a CCA from your creditors first to see whether the agreements are enforceable & then take it from there.

Hi Robert - to tip scales look at the icons bottom left of your posts ...... the middle one is the scales icon There is another one from pete castlebest which may fit the bill Robert it's post #5 on this link : http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/164871-castlebests-default-removal.html#post1946244 Hee -hee - is this the same one again pete ? laffin