Anyone got bottles of champaigne & party popper pics to put up...this is a joint celebration now :D

Have i got it? Edit!!!!!!!!! YEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!! I GOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi, just my 2 penneth but I thought it had to be an agreement rather than an application form! to be enforceable, not 100% as just investigating myself. I have 3 cards with MBNA, one Virgin who started charging me 30% even though I had never missed a payment, the other are at 25%. I'm now defaulting on a total of £150k of debt due to my business income more than halving.

No worries... just deal with the one bothering you the most; Cotes/Paragon. If you coose to tackle any others on the DMP afterwards, you can then do so without so much stress. One step at a time.... Don't forget to send the CCA by rec.delivery.... do not sign it (initials will do)....and enclose a PO for the £1 fee; not a cheque ('coz of the signature)

PJ the sign actually means "no one charges more than us"

Indeed Cosalt, I take "four corners" as meaning on the same page as you sign, but perhaps it doesn't mean that legally. Anyone know for sure? I like the way MBNA/Virgin devote more page space to "pick your plastic" than laying out the terms and conditions! They are such morons.

Yes they do have to be members

I work for a Solicitors office and it is fully insured and regulated by the Law Society. I don't know whether they all have to be, but I would have thought all Solicitors have to be something to do with the Law Society seeing as this is how their qualifications are regulated, if I am not mistaken?

Hi willtheywontthey, I know this is not your thread, but please take it from me that you MUST tell your partner. He will find out eventually - it is impossible to hide for ever and the stress of dealing with it the way you are doing is absolutely unbearable - you probably appreciate that already. Pick a suitable moment and TELL HIM. You have to ask yourself what you are worried about. Will he leave you if he finds out? Well he will find out and frankly, he's more likely to do that if he thinks you didn't trust him enough in the first place. Take it from someone who knows exactly what you're going through. My marriage very nearly broke up because of debts - not because of the debts themselves but because my wife was so upset that I didn't tell her about it. Tell him, get him on your side, then you can start to deal with this properly and without anywhere near as much stress. Regards. Fred

well its in dispute now

Brians post unapproved pending verification that he is not using his real name-We would not want to see him in hot water over this.

Hi there, thanks for replying, much appreciated and it made me smile, which i havent been doing much of latley, whilst trying to sort out my debts! Anyway, can you explain to me the offer they have made to me? I wrote the text in my thread. I feel a bit stupid, but i am just not used to this and am in a learning process! So i would be grateful if you would take a look! many Thanks, Sahlaz.

:D:D:D:D:D:D Sign it with Mickey Mouse and wait for your CCA to arrive... signed by.... Mickey Mouse..

Hello pmw1971! I agree with everything Monty2007 has said. If you can, I'd try to scale back everything that you are doing with Amex, in case the Business Amex Charge Card is currently a critical tool. Move away from it ASAP by getting another Card elsewhere. If you have a bun fight with Amex over the Credit Card, I doubt they will waste much time pulling the Business Charge Card in retaliation. It could be a Charge Card Monthly Limit Cut, or complete closure. IOW, don't get caught out. Just writing to them will alert them to examine ways to get rid of you as a Customer. They seem to be dumping accounts like mad at the moment, suggesting they are in as much trouble as many other banks (if not more so). My advice is to try and buy yourself some time if you can. i.e. see if you can stretch to find the Credit Card monthly Payments for 3 Months while you re-organise things to try and make sure Amex does not form a key part of your Business and/or Income Generation. If it were me, I'd probably remove the s78(1) CCA Request and Subject Access Request from the above letter, because that will only alert them that you are highly likely to fight them fairly soon. Their thinking being that if you know about such things, then you are planning to fight them anyway. Both issues are your Statutory Rights, but Amex will simply log you as a dead end from that point and will not do anything to help you stay with them. Indeed, they will seek to get rid of you ASAP. That could be to cancel the Charge Card, and ramp up your Interest Rates on the Credit Card to Hoover in as much as they can get from you until you either start fighting them, or until they have inflated the alleged Debt to increase their paper Tax Write Off, or a combination of all. I think you are very wise to draft your letters with a later Court battle in mind. Indeed, that's what I would've recommended anyway had you not mentioned this. Right now, I think you must resign yourself that you and Amex are about to part ways. The key is to make sure you do so on your terms and not on theirs. The Charge Card is probably a dead end in terms of fighting them, as most Charge Cards are not covered by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Some are, but you'd need to check your Terms very carefully. Look for things that allow you on-going or running Credit, such as Flex Accounts or Cash Advance facilities etc. But assuming the Charge Card is a hard one to fight, the best advice is to scale it down and move the use of that over to something else. Get another Charge Card or arrange an Overdraft and use a Debt Card instead etc. Anything but stay with Amex, because they will probably pull the Card when you are trying to book into an Hotel 400 miles from home and find your Amex Charge Card has been pulled leaving you with a problem (and no accommodation)! The Credit Card won't be all plain sailing, as it sounds like you applied for that on-line. From around 2004 onwards, a mouse click/tick-box was acceptable to execute an Agreement on your part, so you are likely to be more at the mercy of Amex than if, say, the alleged Agreement was based upon a Written Agreement. Anything Electronic can, potentially, be re-created! But the alleged Agreement should be covered by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and not the Consumer Credit Act 2006. The latter came into force 06/04/2007, so if you did apply for the Credit Card in Feb 2006, then the alleged Agreement should still be covered by the 1974 Act...so things like s127(3) still apply (see the 1974 Act). That means that if any of the Prescribed Terms were missing, a Court cannot enforce. However, the danger is the alleged Agreement was probably Electronic, so I regret that does leave a lot of room for Amex to produce a perfect Agreement. They'd still have to prove it, but it's a lot easier for them than having to present a Written Agreement. Amex tend not to be able to produce Written Agreements, either through stupidity or perhaps because the Original wasn't as enforceable as they would like (I'll let people guess which). Sorry this is not great news, but it may at least warn you how to handle what could soon develop into a problem for you. Cheers, BRW

Teldave I would strongly urge you to ring national debtline tomorrow.(They may be open today) They are absolutely fantastic- non judgemental and really supportive. Look at this in a positive way- you are trying to do something and not burying your head, this can only be commended. It is a lot easier to ignore everything than to face up to it. This site will give you all the support you need and in a couple of weeks, I promise you will feel better. It is money at the end of the day, nobody can take you away for owing money. Get them letters to your creditors written and we will take it from there. Keep your chin up and remember we are all supporting you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/brighthouse/178372-brighthouse-credit-crunch-vultures.html Thought the rest of the world might like to see what's going on with BrightHouse! Power to the People, and CAGgers unite!

there have been many, but just not reported due to being at county court level, unless you subscribed to Encyclopedia of consumer credit law it is unlikely you will have access to these as this publication contains the Consumer Credit Law reports much like Goode Consumer Credit Reports. The issue you will fall into is s170 which provides that looking at the extensive commentary oin this, the only remdy would be available under common law, the mistake of fact/law arguments for restitution now you fall into the unjust enrichment trap there as it would be unjust to recover monies which you were not entitled to, ie the monies you were given under the contract. you would have an arguable claim for recovery of monies over and above the capital but you would not succeed for total recovery i have had a few claims which have recovered monies paid but that has been soley the interest payments

Send them the following; Account In Dispute Ref: Dear Sir/Madam Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted. You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account. On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference. You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request) The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account. Furthermore; You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states: If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law. As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment. Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data. Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies. * You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. * You may not add further interest or any charges to the account. * You may not pass the account to a third party. * You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency. * You may not issue a default notice related to the account. I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply. I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter. I look forward to hearing from you in writing. Yours faithfully,

Yes well Clemma, you have to understand that these things that BH do (er hmm...alledgedly!!), are against the regulations that govern them. Telephone harassment, is just one example. The problem is, until we actually catch BH with their trousers down, so to speak, the papers can't print these allegations as they could leave themselves open to legal action. It could also hamper any real legal action that someone might wish to take against BH. We have to be patient, little by little we will chip away at them, don't worry. Apart from that, I would say great article! This is just the start. Thanks go to the News of the World for breaking this story, our cause will now have greater momentum with them behind us.

You're welcome. Glad to have been able to help a little:)

I take it you have found this then to send recorded, not signed!! Congrats on your 1st thread!! Dear Sir/Madam, Reference number: xxxxx You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves. I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name). I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question. I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods. Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment. I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question. I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions. I/we look forward to your reply. Yours faithfully

YAY! I got another little green thing at last!!!! Thank you everyone for your support!

Yep - the full article is longer, most likely going to be the centre page spread - usually is for the NEWS OF THE WORLD INVESTIGATES item... Ok folks, prepare for battle... Lock and load... Because we are now well and truly at war... Mods and site teams take note: These forums are monitored regularly as it is... Expect intervention, complaints - even possible threats of legal action etc... (BrightHouse have merely "tolerated" us up to now), but the gloves are off now. This is the start of the domino effect people... It's going to get even hotter in here over the next few months! At ease troops! Cheers Lefty

I've got one blob more and sill the same "Highly informative" - no idea how to improve on that as I can't find my reputation any more? There's been some sort of update to the board and it vanished! However, if anyone wants to try and help me out by clicking my scales, I may find it again...

Did you know that there is no such thing as a "credit rating" - that is 1 of the biggest myths in this country to date....a certain well known person on Moneysavingexpert will tell you that Yes there is credit reports...but ratings dont actually exist. At the end of the day - you can have a squillion defaults,CCJ's, late payments & whatever else on your report, it makes no difference as to weather you will get credit or not. Its up to the individual company weather they say yes or no. Its not in a companies best interests to keep saying no to people as they'd never get any business or make any profit if they constantly did that

hillesden and dlc are the same company

Very interesting and informative reading, but, I think some of the more important problems are not discussed. The current banking crisis is not caused by any irresponsible mortgage lending in the UK, but, by gready and irresponsible investments in bad US mortgages who could best be described as ''junk bonds'' like those Mike Milken flogged in the 80's to the financial community. It's greed and the result of a bonus payment system that defies belief. However, here in the UK things are a bit different. Even if the banks were to use multiplicators of 6 or 7 times the income, the great majority of people with mortgages pay them. Do not forget that in the UK there is no true rental market and what the councils provide is normally referred to as ''social housing'' i.e. for those who cannot fend for themselves or are social misfits and is not available for ordinary people. If there were no lending facilities available that furnished people with self cert. mortgages or buy to let mortgages etc. then the market would come to a complete stand still. The average certifiable income in the UK is (or was) around £21,000.00 with a average house costing some £210,000.00, thats 10 times your gross income. In London it's worse and people may earn a bit more, but, the house prices are also a lot higher. If you think that with stricter lending norms there will be a market adjustment you are wrong, it's all a question of supply and demand. And, do not forget to rent a 2 bedroom apartment in a not to bad London Suburb will cost you around £1,100.00 per month, about the same as a 6%, interest only mortgage of £212,500.00 (85% of 250,000.00). There are many other factors to take in to account. Britain is no longer a manufacturing country with large export based economy. Nor does it export any larger amounts of crude or refined oil, but, is mainly a ''service provider''. We live and die with consumtion. No money no honey and that is exactly what is happening. Shops, restaurants and other service providers are going out of business and nothing is really done to prevent it. The governments 2.5% VAT cut must be one of the most stupid panic (re-)actions ever to have been introduced as a measure to stimulate the consumers. It's outright embarrasing to have to endure this kind of ineptitude, 2.5% of a suit at NEXT costing £125.00 will save you the fantastic sum of £3.13, not enough for a pint in your local. Nor can they see or plan ahead, but, follows the wind like a dust swirl. You cannot save the situation by bailing out the banks and those who already have the money and caused the problems, YOU MUST ENSURE THAT THE PEOPLE, THE COMMON MAN AND WOMAN ON THE STREET ARE SUPPORTED. Honestly, let the banks go. Ensure the state takes them over and simply ditch the toxic debt. Write down personal debt and FIX MORTGAGE RATES at some 2% and lover the interbank rate to 0%. Remove all stampduty up to £750,000.00 and stamp out the current credit rating agencies who are actually doing more harm than goo. Change the law to protect the weaker against the predator as it does in most European countries. Stop pandering to those with money and power and do what you were elected to do REPRESENT THE WISHES OF THE PEOPLE. I think we will see a melt down the like we cannot even imagine yet and sadly people will suffer and suffer a lot. There are some good news though for our Russian Oligarks, Arab Oil Sheiks, Indian Moguls and Chinese friends. Cash is Kng and there are some real bargains out there like most of UK PLC.

BTW: Note the they agreed an arrangement with you in accordance with the pre-action protocols and THEN instructed solicitors. They should not have issued the claim against you and should not have caused you to incur legal costs. If the issue does come up again, (which I sincerely hope it will not) that letter dated 11 Nov is very very good evidence to form part of your defence i.e., that their claim should be dismissed because the pre-action protocol resulted in an agreed arrangement and accordingly, they should not have issue a claim and that you should not have incurred the legal costs.

Hi Lisaf, here's a nice little quote from one of viscount stair's posts on another thread that you might like to hit the DCA with next time they bother you; "Do report them, to OFCOM as well as OFT As an optional extra, here is a little speech to deliver: You personally - as well as your employers - are committing a criminal offence against section 127 of the Communications Act 2003. The maximum penalty for making calls like these are a £5,000 fine, six months in prison or both. You personally are committing the offence and liable to these penalties, not just your employers. They won't like it up 'em; they will not like it up 'em! Section 127 is the nuisance calls provision of the Communications Act but it is drafted in quite wide terms." Always get the caller's name and the name of the person who instructed them to call you, first; then hit them the above:D Best of luck to you:)

Just got another letter this morning dated the day AFTER the above letter ....... I'm sorry you have had cause to complain, blah, blah, blah ...... I have arranged for an immediate investigation ................ of course you have. Maybe if they had less bloody departments they might be a bit more organised, and that's a big might. Pete.

Application form. Doesn't contain all the pescribed terms, such as APR frequency of repayments, etc. Also some of it being unreadable also makes a difference. Send them this letter.......... Dear Sir/Madam, Re: Reference Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a Legible copy of this credit agreement. Plus a FULL statement of account and a copy of any documents referred to within the agreement. The copy you recently sent is of such a poor quality, that some of it is unreadable, and also fails to contain the full prescribed terms and conditions under the C.C.A. 1974. Until you furnish me with a properly executed, and legible credit agreement for this account, I consider this account to be in serious dispute. As you are well aware the documentation you sent me is insufficient evidence that you have recourse through the courts to prove I am your debtor and that any debt is legally enforceable. You will therefore appreciate that I have no alternative other than to confirm that I do not acknowledge any debt to your company. I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if it doesn’t fully comply. If you are unable to supply legible and enforceable copy of the agreement for this alleged debt, then please confirm this in writing. I look forward to hearing from you. Yours faithfully,

Whether an application can also be an agreement is debatable but regarding enforceability of the document you have posted - Short answer – not enforceable under s127(3) of the CCA 1974. Long answer – taken from a defence against a claim The importance of a copy of the credit agreement and its production before the court 14. Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 there are certain conditions laid down by parliament which must be complied with if such agreement is to be enforced by the courts 15. Firstly, the agreement must contain certain Prescribed terms under regulations made by the Secretary of State under section 60(1) CCA 1974, the regulations referred to are the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) 16. The prescribed terms referred to are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-- 1. Number of repayments; 2. Amount of repayments; 3. Frequency and timing of repayments; 4. Dates of repayments; 5. The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable 17. It is submitted that if the credit agreement supplied falls foul of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) in so far that the prescribed terms are not contained within the agreement then the court is precluded from enforcing the agreement. The prescribed terms must be with the agreement for it to be compliant with section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition there is case law from the Court of Appeal which confirms the Prescribed terms must be contained within the body of the agreement and not in a separate document 18. I refer to the judgment of TUCKEY LJ in the case of Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299 "[11] Schedule 1 to the 1983 Regulations sets out the "information to be contained in documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements". Some of this information mirrors the terms prescribed by Sch 6, but some does not. Contrasting the provisions of the two schedules the Judge said: "33 In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement. More detailed requirements, which are designed to ensure that the debtor is made aware, so far as possible, of specified information (including information contained in the minimum terms) are to be found in Schedule 1." None of the prescribed terms are in your document so it would be unenforceable.

No problem - we'll get there in the end:) I'm going to ask one of the team who know more about time orders than I do for advice on how to proceed. Ell

yes, im in the same boat. i was laid off from my job as a logistics manager on the 11th of november 2008, since then i have had 1 job interview out of 130 applications. where possible, i prefer to avoid dealing with employment agencies, as through dealings and bad experiences in the past with them, they are now all tarred with the same brush, and have yet to prove to me that they are actually interested in finding me work, and not just interested in generating commission for themselves. one thing i have found is that taking temp jobs through agencies while you wait for something permenant to come along actually counts AGAINST your future empoyment prospects, as most employers dont see it as you taking something temp to ake ends meet, they simply see it as that you are an unreliable and disloyal employee (a fact which is usually conveniently forgotten whenever they need someone quick to cover for sickness or absence from an agency). The jobcentre have been no help whatsoever, every time i ask about any of the numerous training schemes they advertise promenently on their walls, the only answer i get back is "dunno". no one ever available to talk to you about things, and you dont really get any assistance whatsoever unless you have been unemployed for 6 months. Last time i asked about being elligable for a course to get an SIA badge, they asked me 3 questions, and you had to be able to answer yest to one of them to be elligable. the questions were:- "Is your first language something other than english?" "Are you unable to read and/or write?" "Do you have any criminal convictions?" pathetic... another thing that really gets my goat is "ethnic job fairs"....., im sorry mr indian or mr african or mr polish or whatever, but i need a job just as much as you and i dont see why i should be excluded from the running because i dont have brown skin, which in actuality makes no difference whatsoever to my ability to do the job. I can put some boot polish on my face and still be able to do the job the same as i could without it. ive just realise dim ranting...ill stop now..GRRR!