helping friend with diminished mental capacity

[HP Mum]

I've been helping an oap friend for many years with various matters. 

He hasn't paid council tax for years and owes £10k to one council. 

He's no longer in the uk. And probably won't ever return, due to health issues. 

The property is empty. 

Letters are regularly sent from bailiffs threatening to take his possessions. 

What happens to council tax if he dies? 

Does the debt get taken out of probate? 

Or what happens if the property gets sold soon-ish

- must the arrears get paid as part of the sale?

[dx100uk]

nothing much they can do........

the debt does not reside 'with the house'..

so once sold...

and if he's never coming back to the UK...

however much i hate debt avoidance..that's the truth.

dx

 

[HP Mum]

Thanks dx. 

His situation has unfortunately got complicated and I can't (unofficially) help anymore. 

He can't pay for anything. 

He has funds.

But his account was temp blocked for some silly reason. 

He is too unwell to call them. 

And, of course, they won't talk to me or unblock it. 

There's all sorts of bills to pay and none are being paid.

I was worried the council may try get a charging order. 

At the moment they seem to have just got lots of liability orders. 

The bailiff letters are threatening.

[dx100uk]

the temp frozen bank A/C will be under the money laundering rules.

he must be transferring large sums of money in/out a UK bank account from abroad and the automatic system has fagged him.

now he must wait for a human to intervein. 

can take anything upto 2mts

see the barclays forum.

you cant get a CO for CTAX as that would need a CCJ FIRST 

9/10 council dont go for CCJ's on CTAX debt , as they can go direct to bailiffs 

but they are powerless as there is no right of force entry.

dx

 

 

[HP Mum]

He wasn't and isn't transferring any funds overseas. 

It was 1 small transfer - ironically to me (which he'd done before) - and 2 small ATM withdrawals. 

He has a 300/d limit on the card. And can't transfer more than 2k at a time. 

This happened a number of months ago.

And he isn't able to call the bank from overseas due to health issues. 

He's getting his pension monthly (which I set up for him) and he can't access it. 

It's a sad state of affairs

[dx100uk]

this is not making much sense but thats not usual for the threads from you...

the fact that he is abroad and ill ? he cant use a phone.....

he cannot easily communicate vocally so phone is out? fullstop?

can he not use a chat online facility, most banks websites have them?

can you not simply write to the bank and explain this?

all banks must under banking rules have methods other that voice to communicate with them 24/7

do you know the reason why the account was blocked yet?

is this bank a UK bank?

if this has been going on for months now you should have logically already worked these things out for yourself.......

[HP Mum]

It's Barclays.  I went in to see a manager who does know me and who also knows I was previously helping this guy. 

Unfortunately this particular bank do not communicate by email or letter.  Only by phone with the account holder. 

It was the 2 ATM withdrawals and 1 transfer that appear to have blocked the account. 

He has no-one with authority in the uk to help. He gave me authority to help and use his account to manage his affairs/ pay bills etc - but not in the format the bank require - which is that he sits with me in a branch and fills out forms.  He can't do that.

I didn't understand at first why he couldn't ring the bank. Now I do. Having tried to speak to him. He's incapable of talking properly.  Dementia.   I explained this to the manager.  But he said theres nothing I can do without PoA.   

Anyway, it's very sad. And I'm very upset as I've known him since I was a teen  The fact you say the council can do nothing about CTax arrears is a reprieve

[dx100uk]

hoho how did i know it's barclays....

clickme

Programmable Search Engine

CSE.GOOGLE.COM

ultimately there is nothing he can do until they 'resolve' the issue

but it will be resolved and sorted.

barclays have numerous ways to communicate with them due to illnesses that remove vocal communication.

the best is the barclays app which you install on his phone. or on his PC/computer

/content/dam/lifestyle-images/personal/barclays-journal/di_moment_woman_hearing_aid_phone_3_1.large.medium_quality.jpg

Ways to contact us when you have accessibility needs | Barclays

WWW.BARCLAYS.CO.UK

---

If illness or disability means you prefer to communicate with us in a particular way, we’ll do everything we can to help.

they might just be wanting confirmation it was him and then the A/C will be opened.

dx

[HP Mum]

Thanks for that info. 

It's all a bit too 'high-tech" for him now though.  It's all happened very swiftly.

He doesn't understand 'apps' on phones. 

He's never been able to ring overseas from his landline.  He could only use WhatsApp to make international calls on his mobile. But Barc don't offer calls via WA. 

He doesn't use a pc anymore. 

He's 000s of miles away.

And his new partner doesn't speak English!   And he now seems incapable of holding a proper conversation.   

My experience in the last year of trying to deal with Barc on his behalf (lots of different matters) has been awful.  They are a nightmare.

He was always like a child - which is why I helped. He has assets here. I've helped him with them.  But w/o his funds I can't.

There is also that one issue that I've read articles on

- Barc don't want you to use them if you aren't in the uk. 

Even the manager I know asked why he has a Barc account if he's overseas. 

I pointed out that he has uk assets, was educated here, worked here all his life, gets a UK pension, and ... has a Barc mortgage

[honeybee13]

Fwiw, I dealt with Barclays from abroad not that long ago. They kept saying I should just pop into a branch and certainly with the Indian call centre, they couldn't understand how far away I was.

Eventually I emailed the CEO and the executive team sorted things out for me. That could be an option later.

HB

[HP Mum]

Thanks HB.  

Security is so tight these days that they don't consider just being plain kind & and helpful is possible anymore.  No-one uses common sense.  

He should have set things up for me with Barc formally years ago. I've been going into a branch and using the machines with his card for years. I've paid bills for him - no problem.  Til this 'blocking' instance.   When I explained the situation, they refuse to talk to me. It's too unorthodox.

He has a countryside property.  His partner asked me to rent it out to get an income.  But w/o access to his bank I can't clear it out, get an epc, do all the safety checks, pay the estate agent, or indeed then transfer funds to him/ his partner overseas.  I managed to repair the roof before this instance. But he owes council tax here too

Barclays manager said I should give up trying to help him

[honeybee13]

Is there any paperwork authorising you that Barclays will accept othe than a PoA?

HB

[HP Mum]

I have a signed letter giving me permission to help him sell an asset - which also mentions how difficult Barclays have been !

I got him to do all the id checks with a lawyer.

he has a lawyer.

But he needs to pay an invoice for some work they already did.

Unless the account is unblocked I can't pay them (on his behalf).

And they won't assist him with any further work.

Which could also perhaps involve sorting out Barc.

 

[honeybee13]

So have you asked Barclays what paperwork they will accept to give you authority?

HB

[HP Mum]

Yes.

I went to see the local manager. 

He said they need to speak to friend to go through security Q's& As. 

That he would need to sit with me in a branch or his home with a barc rep for them to be satisfied he allows me to do things for him. 

He commented that my friend would be classed as a vulnerable person.

Ironic that barc are contributing to his vulnerability 

They don't like that he is overseas, has a UK account, and can't speak or write to them

This post has kind of gone off track! 

I only posted about the potential reach of the council in collecting CTax arrears ! 

 

Edited June 21 by HP Mum

[London1971]

It won't harm him if he's never coming back to the UK.  I

[honeybee13]

Fair enough, I'll stand down.

HB

[HP Mum]

London1971 - he's sick.

He & his partner would like to dispose of or utilise via a rental his uk assets and/or to have access to his own £s (including his pension) - to make his end of days more pleasant. 

It seems that is now only going to be possible for his partner via probate if Barc won't unblock his account.  

HB - sorry I didn't mean to appear rude.

I just meant this post will probs end up having to be morphed over to barc threads !

I do appreciate your input

[HP Mum]

Just been reading another thread

I'm curious about the mention of using CPR21.3 – no further steps in the proceedings should be taken if a party involved losses their mental capacity and does not have a litigation friend to handle it on their behalf. 

I have a friend who has

a) lost mental capacity

b) is overseas

c) has had their bank account blocked for alleged security issues

d) can't call  the bank to unblock due to diminished mental capacity

e) hasn't been able to deal with end of mortgage term

f) can't appoint lawyer (due to bank blocked & diminished mental capacity)

g) couldn't attend court & got a possession order against his flat

h) now has been given an eviction notice (in 2months time)

Is there anything I can do to stop the eviction process, save his possessions, and his flat?

Edited July 18 by HP Mum
typo

[dx100uk]

i believe you already have a thread running?

please which one?

dx

[HP Mum]

I had a thread about council tax arrears relating to the same oap friend.  And the topic got distracted from CTax to a side topic about Barc blocking his account.    Is it best to keep separate or merge? 

[dx100uk]

always best for complete history to merge.

 ill do it

dx

[dx100uk]

threads merged.

dx

[HP Mum]

Thanks

[HP Mum]

Is there anything I can do?  From experience the court doesn't "recognise" me as a friend and Barclays won't talk, write, call or email me.  Infact Barclays won't even email the oap.